CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Behaviour & Training => Topic started by: Geordietyke on June 30, 2015, 10:28:53 AM
-
I have hesitated to post anything on here recently, perhaps naively hoping it would get better but Archie has bitten my eldest daughter twice in the past 2 months :'( She is 11 so not a toddler. The first time was completely unprovoked, we were both in the kitchen talking, I left to go in the living room to get something and within 2 seconds heard him lunge and her scream. He'd bitten her on the bottom as she turned to the sink. As you can imagine, the pain she had sitting down at school for the next week was excruciating :'(
He bit her again this past Friday, we were all standing round chatting (family were visiting) and she went down to stroke him as he lay chilled next to us. I didn't even have time to react - he crinkled his nose and immediately attacked - no warning growl etc given that I could observe. A huge bite/teeth weals and bruise on her upper thigh - fortunately she'd pulled away in time otherwise he'd have got her face.
He has always been very noise reactive, but his behaviour has got worse in the past two months, this has included him growling/ snapping and going for my husband, if he leaves his chair (not even going anywhere near the dog), screaming/strangling noises and barking wildly at a friend's dog, whom previously he'd barely acknowledged and the other day, he spotted a couple a long way off down the street, he tracked them, standing stiffly and again that screaming/strangling behaviour - he has never reacted to people in this way before.
His circling behaviour, which he's always done when excited, has escalated to include high pitched barking and screaming every time the phone rings/door sounds/anyone goes out of a door.
Worryingly too, whenever my daughters (aged 10 and 11) go upstairs (always in a calm manner), he'll race up before them and position himself at the top of the stairs barking/growling and if they react, lunging to make contact.
There is just so many issues, which I am so concerned about, especially for the safety of my children (and their friends visiting) that I don't see many options available. I have spoken to a behaviourist (APBC and APDT registered with 30+ years experience) who said straight off that she would not be able to stop him attacking, she may be able to calm and improve things but not cure him. I have made an appointment at the vets for a check over, although he shows no signs of any ill health whatsoever.
My husband doesn't seem to view all this very seriously, he blamed me for not letting him off lead (his recall is awful so I'm not prepared to let him off to run riot), and not giving him run of the downstairs :huh: (as many of you know, it has taken me till Archie was 15 months old to stop him toileting in the house, he'd do this if I let him wander from room to room).
I can't believe I may lose another cocker after poor Odie, all my life I've wanted a dog....
Does anyone know what the vet may do, I don't want them to order a barrage of tests for no reason. Thanks, Lesley
-
I'm so very sorry to read your post. Will send you a PM with some info x
-
Thank you x
-
Sending you a great big hug chicken :bigarmhug:
-
Thank you :luv:
-
Hugs for you :bigarmhug:
But I'm going to sound awful >:D I wouldn't give him a third chance, your daughters are much more precious than a dog (much as I love them). Sorry but I wouldn't hesitate it could be your daughters face next or something worse.
Many years ago I had to do this......the vet tried to say I shouldn't, but I had three young children.
-
I have to admit, when it happened the second time, I just wanted him out of the house and gone. Hubby seems to think it can be managed/cured but at what cost.....
-
I've sent you a rather long PM, but typed from the phone at work so apologies if predictive text has taken over or if it's a bit blunt - not meant to be but it's a little busy here, sorry x
-
I've got your pm - thanks! No, it wasn't blunt at all, I've sent you a reply :D
-
Lesley I am so sorry to be reading this, I know how long you have struggled with Archie, in all manner of ways, but I would have to admit you have to know how much is too much of a risk, for yourself and your family, and biting/intimidating family members, (or anyone else for that matter) for me, would I think sway against.
Do you think a rescue may help - they could maybe work with Archie initially, to see if anything can be done. Think there are a couple of spaniel savvy rescues which may help.
I do hope you will be able to find a solution, and send you :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug: You can pm me if you want to chat, I will always answer :luv:
-
Thanks Irene, I know you are always there for me :luv: I'm not sure about spaniel rescues, not sure if they would rehome a cocker, especially one I can give so much information about. If anyone on here knows more about this, please let me know.
It is really, really hard and so upsetting seeing your children being badly hurt. I love Archie and he can be so sweet at times but I have to balance that with all the other issues he has, I'd be devastated if he hurt someone else and I'd done nothing about it prior to it happening :'(
-
Thanks Irene, I know you are always there for me :luv: I'm not sure about spaniel rescues, not sure if they would rehome a cocker, especially one I can give so much information about. If anyone on here knows more about this, please let me know.
It is really, really hard and so upsetting seeing your children being badly hurt. I love Archie and he can be so sweet at times but I have to balance that with all the other issues he has, I'd be devastated if he hurt someone else and I'd done nothing about it prior to it happening :'(
Wise words - have a chat to John at CAESSR, see what he suggests
Xx
-
It is really, really hard and so upsetting seeing your children being badly hurt. I love Archie and he can be so sweet at times but I have to balance that with all the other issues he has, I'd be devastated if he hurt someone else and I'd done nothing about it prior to it happening
And these days, more than ever, you have to consider the legal & financial implications of your dog frightening or worse, attacking anyone (hard to think of our little bundles as dangerous dogs, but I am afraid that may be the case, should the worst happen - let's hope it doesn't)
-
I think you should INSIST on a full thyroid panel being done before deciding anything about Archie.
This is one of a number of articles on hypothyroidism - he must get all the panels done and sent to the states.
http://www.rileysplace.org/health-safety/thyroid-aggression/ (http://www.rileysplace.org/health-safety/thyroid-aggression/)
-
The thing is, he sounds and looks really scary to me when he does this screaming/barking/twirling and lunging behaviour so goodness knows how it looks to others :-\
Will see what vet says and then I can contact John at CAESSR for a chat. Thank you guys :luv:
ETA - I've looked at the link Helen - surely I can't be so unlucky twice in a row with a cocker.... It does state:
The first sign is hair loss, usually on your dog’s trunk, back of the rear legs, and tail. His coat will be dull and thin, his skin flaky, but not itchy or red (which is usually tied to fleas or an allergic reaction). He may also have black patches of skin. This is followed by weight gain, muscle loss, sluggishness, a slowed heart rate, toenail and ear infections, and intolerance to cold. It’s not widespread, but hypothyroidism is also linked to seizures, heart and blood vessel problems, and infertility.
Archie has not shown any of these symptoms, in fact, I have a hard time keeping the weight on him, even though he is neutered but I will mention it tomorrow at the vets.
-
Just looked at symptoms for HYPERthyroidism (rare) as opposed to HYPOthyroidism (common) and he does have a few of those including weight loss (or difficulty maintaining weight)/increased appetite and eating quickly/frequent weeing/hyper or overactive/restlessness and coat dullness.
Of course, I may just be clutching at straws as it's a rare condition but with my luck, I'd not be surprised :-\
-
Hi Lesley, thanks for the pm otherwise I would have missed this. I've not posted on COL for ages and for much the same reason as you. As you know our Madoc was an uncle of Archie being half brother to Archie's mum. Note the past tense :( We had him PTS last October after struggling for 10 months with biting issues. I was too upset to post after that. He mostly bit my husband but also my dad, a friend and people in the kennels. We worked with a good behaviourist, Emily Blackwell of Bristol Uni Vet school, who did the Channel 4 dogs behavioural programme, the name of which I forget.
We'd got that at home we could largely manage him but found that life constricted hugely as we found more and more things we couldn't do because of him and fear he would bite someone. He found lots of things stressful and would react very quickly. Like Archie we never had a warning growl. It was just a very brief freeze then bite. Even Emily commented that he was very subtle in his communications. Odd things could be a trigger. Bizarrely, putting his food bowl down would sometimes provoke him though he wasn't bothered by us being around while he was eating. We couldn't pick him up, hold him by the collar, bath him, put on his equafleece, he sometimes reacted when we were taking off either his lead or collar though was fine when we put them on. The list of triggers just kept growing month on month.
Finally, one day when we were all on the floor putting a desk together, Madoc rolled on his back all smiley and wriggly. We both thought he wanted a tummy tickle. Ian turned and went to reach toward him and Madoc jumped up and gave him a deep bite on the shoulder. Neither of us saw it coming and at that point decided enough was enough. He was just too unpredictable to be safe. No rescue would take a dog that bites. They've got enough lovely friendly dogs they struggle to rehome as it is.
It was a heartbreaking decision. I loved him to bits. He was a lovely, bright intelligent dog that I felt a real connection to but we couldn't go on living as we were and we couldn't risk other people's safety. I think if we'd had children living in the house we'd have reached the same conclusion earlier.
Anyway that's Madoc's story. I suspect it's what you didn't want to hear. I've no advice for you I'm afraid. You've got to do what is right for you and your family, having taken appropriate behavioural advice from the experts. Hugs to you and the family
Sorry this is so long everyone but I thought it was important to be public about it
-
So sorry to read about Madoc, it really breaks your heart when you know that there is a more tender side - but for everyone's safety have to do what is best.
-
Just looked at symptoms for HYPERthyroidism (rare) as opposed to HYPOthyroidism (common) and he does have a few of those including weight loss (or difficulty maintaining weight)/increased appetite and eating quickly/frequent weeing/hyper or overactive/restlessness and coat dullness.
Of course, I may just be clutching at straws as it's a rare condition but with my luck, I'd not be surprised :-\
It's worth investigating and even contacting Dr Jean Dodds for advice.
-
So sorry to read about your growing problems with Archie. You must be in pieces and so torn. I have no advice as, ultimately, it will be your advised decision. BUT, if it were me, I would put my children's safety first, no matter how much I adored my dog. It seems it is Archie's unpredictability which is the problem and makes things so difficult to handle.
Sending you loads of cyber hugs.
:bigarmhug: :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug: Diana xx
PS I really admire all the hard work you have put already training Archie.
-
Thank you ElvieMogs for replying. Poor Madoc's behaviour sounds so similar in places to Archie's. In fact, as you listed the growing problems he had, it reminded me that Archie too started grumbling/growling a few months back when I put his collar/lead on - something he's never done before, in fact he always sat nicely waiting for it to go on. He's also started grumbling about the Equafleece and being towelled down as well as grooming, which hubby can't do any of it now, and I can only gently manage a small time on his ears.
I know exactly what you mean by no warning, just a brief "freeze" then strike. It was exactly what he done on Friday, so subtle and too quick for me to react before he lunged.
DeeDee - thanks for that :luv: Yes, it is the unpredictability which is the problem. If I didn't have children, I'd have probably not posted and just seen a behaviourist to try and work on it but I keep thinking about what might have happened had he struck her face.... If you don't have kids and haven't experienced a dog biting one of them, you really can't understand how gut wrenching and pulled in two directions you feel :'(
-
Thanks everyone. Leslie, we had problems with grooming too. He was ok with our groomer though I was petrified every time he went there. We had him cut very short all over, including ears so didn't have to do any grooming ourselves. Our other issue was getting him in the car though it turned out he was car sick. Stugeron did the trick together with a ramp and sausages! It was our only success.
Also remember it's not only your own children you have to think about. Can you shut Archie away if they have friends to visit? We never could with Madoc, he was distraught if he was shut in another room. We never succeeded using a crate with him and he ended up sleeping in our bedroom as he kept us awake for months when we persisted in leaving him in the kitchen overnight. Anyway I digress. Archie must be kept away or the children can't have friends around
Finally, how did we feel in the morning after losing Madoc?......relief! There was sadness but no guilt or regrets, just relief and a sense of freedom. We definitely did the right thing. We still have Nefyn who's 2 now and an absolute delight. She fills every day with joy and we've finally realised what everyone on COL means when they talk of their loving, crazy Cockers
-
Is his eyesight ok?
We had a Staffie cross that would lash out for no obvious reason and it turned out she was going blind, my life was hell, she used to sleep under the bed and if I reached down for a book or something she'd attack
She had some vision as she wasn't walking into things or tripping but I don't think she could make out faces
Sadly we had to get her put down as she had a couple of goes at the grandson, but she was a lot older than Archie
If its something that has escalated in a short time I'd be asking a vet to check, Ollie was a great little dog and friendly but in her later years changed dramatically, she also became very protective of the wife
-
Oh Lesley, I'm so so sorry to read this. You have had soooo many struggles with Archie and worked so tirelessly to overcome them. I am not qualified to offer any advice. My own Archies issues were so different and his triggers so clear. Plus I have no kids.
You obviously can't go on like this. Your children, their friends, your OH and visitors all need to be safe. His behaviour seems to suggest that Archie isn't feeling secure either so he may need the situation to end too. Don't be afraid to clutch at straws though. If there is something not right and it can be addressed then it's worth pursuing. Even if you pass that information on to a rescue.
Sending both you and ElvieMogs masses of :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug:
-
So sorry to read this :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug:
apart from the health things the others have suggested my very first port of call would be Top Barks, he is not that far from you. He has vast experience of spaniels and I seem to remember one of his rescue boys was due to be pts because of issues, that he was able to resolve with his experience and knowledge.
My Harry sounds quite similar to your Archie, however he was a rescue so we don't know what he went through before he came to us. He has bitten me quite badly on more than one occasion and would again if the circumstances were right, however we don't have children so it is much easier for us, but living with a bitey dog is possible with some changes, but as I say with no children around it is not as challenging for us
really hope you can find some answers for you all xx
-
I am so sorry you are going through this. It must be such a difficult situation but if you fear for the safety of your children and others then there really is no other option. As you have said, you feel torn in 2; you love Archie so much and don't want to give up on him but you know that you can no longer trust him around certain people. If he had attacked your daughter's face, or one of her friends, you would never forgive yourself.
I think the fact that your OH says you can deal with it is probably making it harder for you and it would be great if you could work around Archie but you really do have to put safety of your children (and visiting children) first. Unfortunately, unless you can keep Archie away from them at all times then their safety has to be prioritised, especially under current laws.
It really is heartbreaking to read about this after everything you've been through. Sending all the best to you and your family xxx
-
So deeply sorry to read this, Lesley.
I've written before about Barney, my previous cocker. He had serious problems, and would attack without any prior signs, usually for little reason. I would make sure your vet does a full and thorough check of Archie, including his eyes and ears. Barney had eye issues, which although I don't think were the reason behind his problems, were a definite factor.
It's an incredibly difficult decision to have to make. We kept Barney, and 'managed' his behaviour. We learned his triggers and had to be extremely careful to ensure no one else was at any risk. There were no children around - if there were, his problems were so extensive there's no way he'd have been able to stay. It wasn't easy. I do think these sorts of problems can be dealt with in the right circumstances, but it will take a lot of hard work and with children around, you have to decide if it's worth the risk. Any trust may never be regained.
For now, I would limit all interactions with your children and see what your vet says. I also agree about contacting Top Barks for advice.
I really do feel for you, it's such a horrible position to be in, especially after all you've been though already. Massive hugs :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug:
-
apart from the health things the others have suggested my very first port of call would be Top Barks, he is not that far from you. He has vast experience of spaniels and I seem to remember one of his rescue boys was due to be pts because of issues, that he was able to resolve with his experience and knowledge.
Very good suggestion - here's Mark's website: http://www.yorkdogtrainer.co.uk/
Really sorry to hear about the problems you're experiencing (and also so sorry to hear about Madoc, Elviemogs) - do inform your breeder as if I was the breeder, I'd want to know (and if you do decide you can't keep Archie, your breeder should help too)
-
Thanks everyone. Been to vets this morning. Spent half an hour chatting to her and having Archie physically checked out. She said there was nothing wrong with him in that respect but didn't suggest there was any need for further tests to be done at this point.
She agreed that I would have to carefully manage the situation with the children and get someone in ASAP if I wanted to keep him although she agreed that there was no guarantees if him not biting again.
I have also emailed my breeder but haven't received a reply yet.
I have emailed her suggested trainer, who lives in the same town as me and ironically did my KC Puppy Training course so am awaiting a response from him. Will keep you updated, thanks again everyone for your good wishes. Lesley
-
Really sorry to read about the problems you're having with Archie, especially after you have worked so hard with him.
i was just wondering, from your description of his behaviour if there may be a neurological cause, especially as he is reacting to his ears and neck being touched. Might there be something pressing on his upper spinal cord or brain to cause these problems?
Best wishes, what ever you decide to do.
-
Really sorry to read this.
Can totally understand your dilemma - Honey can be prone to guarding and with 2 small children about this has to be managed very carefully. Fortunately she gives off lots of warning signs, so we (and the children) get a clear heads up when she is in a grumpy mood - I can't imagine trying to manage it without that.
I'm sure whatever decision you eventually make it will not be one that is made lightly - thinking of you and hope you find a solution you are all comfortable with.
-
Thanks :luv:
I know how hard you've worked with your Honey Karma so you can really understand my dilemma. It's very difficult when he shows little or no warnings beforehand.
I am able to touch his head/ears etc so I don't think there is anything wrong there. He is just a very stubborn, strong willed dog, I can lead him off the settee with no problem, OH gets growled at when he tries....
I'm sure having little off-lead exercise isn't helping his very hyper state, I'm hoping to work on this with the trainer, in the meantime, it's a longline....
-
How are things going Lesley?
-
I'm just trying to keep him calm Irene. I'm limiting the amount of time the girls spend around him and keep reminding them not to do anything remotely provocative which could set him off until I have commands and strategies to deal with scenarios. Trainer has not got back to me yet with available dates, which is unfortunate as I'm keen to get going.
-
Yes I can understand that, you need to get started sooner rather than later, especially with the school holidays coming up. Hopefully he will be in contact in the next day or so.
Cannot imagine how you are feeling but here are some :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug: for you all
-
I have been reading your posts concerning Archie over the last few days. My heart goes out to you, especially after the way you have worked with him on his toilet training. Everything crossed a solution can be found, the prospect of losing him must be heartbreaking. Everything crossed you will hear from the trainer in the next few days. Sending :bigarmhug:
-
Thank you for that :luv:
-
I too have been reading this - brings back some memories of a westie I had years ago. Life with him was hard, lived with my parents then and Dad struggled just to open the door to people, yes he would bite, put then was scared like he new he had done wrong, we could never read the signs as to when he would turn.
The bad time started when my Dad died, he started to dominate the house, I couldn't even sit on side Mums bed in a morning to take her a drink, all this when grieving.
Anyway went to the vets and said I thought I would either have to get rid of him or worse. She was wonderful rang a client of hers who trained german shepherds for the police, he agreed to see us, and he worked with him, the main thing was that as a family we had let him take over and he saw himself as pack leader - we had to never let him be on same level with us, so no on the beds or chairs. It helped then when I met OH he sat on rug one day and yes he bit him. So he never did that again. The police trainer even had time stay when we were away.
You always had to be aware, my heart aches for you and hope there is help for you to find.
Julie
-
Thanks for that Julie.
Funnily enough, the trainer I'll be seeing trains police dogs too! :police: He also has German Shepherds of his own. Still not heard back from him yet, but I know he is recommended by a few vets round here so must be busy....
-
Hopefully he is cocker savvy as some who are involved with certain other larger breeds that may be easier to train may have a jaundiced view about spaniels particularly cockers
-
Well, my vet said he'd just been successful in helping a family with their springer, with similar problems so fingers crossed.
I agree with you, if you've never experienced a cocker up close and personal, you can't appreciate how complex they can be....
-
Well, my vet said he'd just been successful in helping a family with their springer, with similar problems so fingers crossed.
I agree with you, if you've never experienced a cocker up close and personal, you can't appreciate how complex they can be....
Or how sensitive.....I think Julie's suggestion of resetting the boundaries, going back to basics and addressing the balance in your household is a good idea - Pearl is a much happier and more relaxed dog since she's been restricted to downstairs and sleeping in the kitchen. It was initially to ensure both dogs were "on the same level" but I do think she was trying to take responsibility for the whole house which meant she was on "high alert" all the time and fractious/overtired.
Hope today has been a better day x
-
Have been away, so have only just read this post. I'm so sorry to hear of your problems with Archie, after all your hard work with his toilet training! Here's hoping the behaviour can be sorted out. Wendy
-
Hopefully he is cocker savvy as some who are involved with certain other larger breeds that may be easier to train may have a jaundiced view about spaniels particularly cockers
I agree, hopefully he will be clued up, but it still might be worth thinking about Top Barks ?
-
Hi how old is Archie i have resource guarding possesive protective issues with my current blue roan cocker . What did smudge die of
-
Hi how old is Archie i have resource guarding possesive protective issues with my current blue roan cocker . What did smudge die of
Hello Claire, Smudge died of an anaemia related illness, which affected his blood cells, liver and kidneys and also his breathing. Smudge was my dog, but I am not sure if you meant Smudge or Odie who was Geordietyke's and died at roughly the same time. It was a very bad time for all concerned, specially being so close together and both being very young, much loved dogs :luv:.
Sorry I can't help with the guarding/protective issues, but I am pretty certain you are in the right place to get some guidance/help
Irene
-
Hi Lesley, how is it going, have you heard from either your trainer or Top Barks yet?
-
Hi Irene, I didn't get in touch with Top Barks. I asked for advice last September for similar issues from him and he said he didn't offer advice via the internet any more and he's a bit far away to visit.
Anyway, trainer arrived this morning. Spent two hours with OH and myself, asking about problems and how I've been dealing with them. The main issues for the moment was his mega hyper, circling and barking behaviour, which in turn, leads to potential lunging and nipping at kids. I also said I'd never been able to leave a room without Archie following me so we done a couple of exercises and the little >:D stayed in the living room whilst I went into the kitchen without following me ph34r
I'm to practise keeping him in the room so I can go elsewhere, then call him. Will be really useful to encourage calm behaviour when the phone rings or someone is at the door.
He is doing me a full plan in the next few days but I'm to basically start again with training. I've already managed to extract him off the sofa and bed with 3 days of practice so there is hope!!
Fingers and paws crossed, lots of hard work ahead but feeling more hopeful :D
-
I wouldn't expect ANY good trainer to give advice over the internet. They need to see the behaviour in question to help.
I'm glad you're feeling more confident and the trainer is giving you methods to cope. Is the trainer APDT? If not, what are his qualifications?
It sounds like Archie is one stressed out little dog from your description of his behaviour :-\
-
First steps certainly sounds encouraging, I do hope he can help both Archie and yourself :luv:
With Archie not following you, do you think he may have been a bit concerned about what was going on? although he may have remembered the trainer from his Good Citizen days (think you said he did GC with him?)
-
No, he's not APDT, he's a Home Office Accredited Dog Trainer, GODT and BIPDT. He done Archie's KC GC Puppy Course and does the Bronze/Silver and Gold courses. I could find no recommended APDT trainers in my area and I'd rather go with him than take a chance on an unknown trainer. He was able to point out to me that if my kids were doing the same sorts of behaviour he was, I wouldn't be tolerating it.
Much of the time Archie is a fairly relaxed dog, if it were only me in the household, he'd be fine, apart from the problems I'm having re. ringing phones/people at door etc, which would happen regardless who was at home.
-
Glad to hear there is hope for Archie to stay with his mum.
-
So glad to read your update - do hope everything works out with the trainer.
Julie
-
I don't visit COL as often as I should, sorry for late comments.
Glad to see you have got some help and feel there is hope for Archie. Did he suggest any interim measures whilst the training is taking effect?
One of the many pieces of brilliant advice I have been given was to use a house line this enables you to be in "control" of any potential situation until you have confidence.
I hope your new regime helps you all to live in harmony.
-
Glad to hear some positive news. Hope the training goes well x
-
So happy for you that there has been some improvement. Hope with all my heart that it goes from strength to strength.
-
Good news, hope all goes well....
-
Fingers crossed for you & looking forward to good news. ;)
-
Thanks everyone :luv:
I've been told to use an old lead so I can get him down off the settee but he's not been up on it since I told him he wasn't allowed there 4 days ago! Same with our bed (he sleeps in our room), he's not attempted to get on our bed since I banned him. His general hyper behaviour has lessened too already, I am making him stay in the living room till he is calm then allowing him to follow me, instead of him automatically assuming he can be glued to my side. This will help to control him when the phone/door goes.
I admit I have been too soft in letting him be with us when we eat dinner, so he's made to stay in another room, he usually goes wild if I've done this in the past, however last night, he only whined a little then was quiet....
-
Thanks everyone :luv:
I've been told to use an old lead so I can get him down off the settee but he's not been up on it since I told him he wasn't allowed there 4 days ago! Same with our bed (he sleeps in our room), he's not attempted to get on our bed since I banned him. His general hyper behaviour has lessened too already, I am making him stay in the living room till he is calm then allowing him to follow me, instead of him automatically assuming he can be glued to my side. This will help to control him when the phone/door goes.
I admit I have been too soft in letting him be with us when we eat dinner, so he's made to stay in another room, he usually goes wild if I've done this in the past, however last night, he only whined a little then was quiet....
It is all sounding positive - but just a friendly word of caution if I may, try not to go over the top with the 'tough love' or he may begin to resent it :luv:
-
I suppose it sounds tough, but it is letting him know that it can't have my attention 24/7 as he has been doing. An example being - we were talking to the trainer and Archie came over and nutted OH for attention, OH took his attention away from our conversation to stroke and acknowledge Archie. This is like my daughter interrupting our conversation to start her own, we wouldn't allow this so we won't with Archie....
He is still the same, we have cuddles and lots of attention, I am just being more structured and placing boundaries, much as I do with the kids. :D
-
I suppose it sounds tough, but it is letting him know that it can't have my attention 24/7 as he has been doing. An example being - we were talking to the trainer and Archie came over and nutted OH for attention, OH took his attention away from our conversation to stroke and acknowledge Archie. This is like my daughter interrupting our conversation to start her own, we wouldn't allow this so we won't with Archie....
He is still the same, we have cuddles and lots of attention, I am just being more structured and placing boundaries, much as I do with the kids. :D
OK fair enough, I can see where you are coming from :D
-
I felt the same as you beforehand but when the trainer asked it would be acceptable for the kids to be doing a,b or c, I said of course not, so he said why was Archie allowed then. I've just been letting him completely rule me and my day to day life, now I can see that I can take a bit of control back.
I'll keep you posted on how things are going over the next few weeks.
-
I felt the same as you beforehand but when the trainer asked it would be acceptable for the kids to be doing a,b or c, I said of course not, so he said why was Archie allowed then. I've just been letting him completely rule me and my day to day life, now I can see that I can take a bit of control back.
I'll keep you posted on how things are going over the next few weeks.
Sometimes it takes somebody else to see the picture before our own eyes, and if the training means you can change things round, and keep Archie it must be certainly worth a try.
It will good to read of Archie's progress :luv:
-
Yes, if it works it means I won't have to make that heart-breaking decision so I'm willing to try anything which will benefit us all, in a firm but kind way.
-
Fantastic news! So pleased for you all. Keep up the good work and I really hope it continues to improve his behaviour. I think your trainer is right about not putting up with things you wouldn't let the children do - if it works for the children (ie not letting them interrupt your conversation etc) and makes them better people, surely it will work with your dog.
I get really irritated by people who constantly allow their child to interrupt conversations - never really considering how similar it is to how dogs can interrupt us when they want attention. I always made my children wait - why not make your dog do the same! Makes perfect sense to me.
Big hugs.
-
it sounds as though your on the right track, what did he say about the circleing and barking when people come?
-
He said that the hyper behaviour/barking and circling will decrease and eventually disappear if I continue with the strategies he's given me, in fact just this afternoon on his walk, a motorbike when passed us and he barely looked at it, previously he'd bark and lunge.
-
the laddy is learning quickly
-
As I mentioned this now sound even more like the actions I was given by the trainer years ago when I had my Westie....
Julie
-
Well done Archie....
-
Good luck Lesley ,
-
So pleased to read how well you and Archie are doing - looking forward to many more updates please x
-
Wow that sounds like you are all making brilliant progress. So great to hear things are looking more positive.
-
I have been following this post, it sounds like you are making good positive progress and it sounds like Archie is a clever boy
-
Thanks guys :D
It's very early days but he is slowly responding to the changes :luv:
-
Just trying to catch up on all the threads I've missed, how is he doing now?
-
We've been away on holiday since the trainer visited so not much has been done yet. Also, I tore a ligament in my foot last Monday so have been unable to resume the training plan as I'm still hobbling around. He is being kept off the sofa/beds without problem but he is an extremely hyper dog, with little or nothing firing him up, this led to him nearly going for my daughter again (3rd time), whilst OH and I were present (OH managed to grab his collar in time). I did say that if he done it again, I'd re-home him but hubby wants to try and sort him so reluctantly I am going to press on with the training plan. In the meantime, I am keeping daughter (aged 11), away from Archie at all times we aren't there, which is proving very difficult and impractical to manage at times.
I will keep you all posted when I'm able to get back at it!
-
Poor you, hope you get better soon. I was wondering if an Adaptil collar might help to calm him down a bit...
-
Hi, thanks :luv: I've already tried one, plus the spray, rescue remedy and a thundershirt...... He is a tough nut to crack unfortunately, he just reacts to every little noise by being hyper but isn't nervous with it IYSWIM?
-
Hi, we have been in a similar situation to yourself and know exactly what you are going through. Beau started showing aggressive behaviour from around 18 months, guarding and unpredictably biting (always my oh). We are lucky in that we live in rural France and only had children around for holidays etc and we could kennel him at those times. At around 2 yrs or so we came to the same sad point as yourself, that is last chance sort it or he has to go. After much research on the internet we decided to try him on a 5-htp supplement, along with much stricter ground rules (not allowed on laps, beds, settee , house line at all times, etc). It took about a month for aggressive behaviours and body language to noticeably diminish and then a while longer before we felt comfortable around him, and so it continued peaceably for the next 18 months or so. He was still a bit of a guarder and reactive to noises but not a major issue.
We stopped the 5-htp recently but his behaviour markedly worsened over the weeks until he bit the oh again, so he is back on it permanently and fingers crossed he continues to behave himself, it seems to work for us.
-
Hi
What is a htp supplement
-
Hi
What is a htp supplement
I didn't know either, so I googled it and found several links to many features on it:
-
If you google 5-htp for dogs you will find some background information on some limited trials that have been done. It is classed as a food additive and commonly used by people to help sleeping problems. The tainted item mentioned years ago was a one off and not 5-htp in this form. As I said in my post I am satisfied in my mind that it works for Beau and has enabled us to keep him with us, not perfect but manageable. I just put this out there as another thing to try, as we did, before taking that last step.
-
If you google 5-htp for dogs you will find some background information on some limited trials that have been done. It is classed as a food additive and commonly used by people to help sleeping problems. The tainted item mentioned years ago was a one off and not 5-htp in this form. As I said in my post I am satisfied in my mind that it works for Beau and has enabled us to keep him with us, not perfect but manageable. I just put this out there as another thing to try, as we did, before taking that last step.
Hi there and apologies. I didn't put the link there to put folk off, or know there is a 5htp specific to dogs, it was just a link I saw to 5HTP, will modify my post as it is probably best if folk look for themselves :D
-
Hey, no problem. Archies story just prompted me to relate our experience, we were desperate and willing to try anything that was safe and gave us some hope.
-
Is this the nutrition calm supplement? If so please be careful and talk to your vet as we had one in about a year ago around bonfire night. The tablet knocked the dog for six.
-
Sorry I only know its called 5-htp, its only constituent is 5-htp and its marketed for human use. I had read about some limited American trials with aggressive dogs and the small dosage they used, which we carefully followed. Over 18 months we have seen no other effect than the reduction in aggressive incidents.