CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Behaviour & Training => Topic started by: Blueberry on March 31, 2017, 01:09:10 PM
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Blue and I spent the day with a dog trainer on Wednesday this week, following a recent incident where he took off after a flock of sheep which unexpectedly appeared whist I had him off lead.
Although initially looking for help with stopping him chasing livestock, we spent a full day covering all the aspects of basic good behaviour training.
She was magnificent, actually, and had Blue nailed down within minutes of meeting him. She showed me where I've been going wrong - which seems to be pretty much everywhere - and we now need to go right back to basics.
I've been told to practise loose lead walking, in areas with progressively more distractions, and not to take him on normal walks until I have cracked this - she reckoned it would take a couple of weeks max.
He also needs a much more solid 'leave it' command, which at the moment is hit and miss.
Recall and staying close need a lot of work. Armed with a long line and a whistle, we will be tackling this too.
I've not to use a harness or lead with bungee stretch for lead walking anymore, a normal collar and lead is recommended, and I invested in a lead marked TRAINING to stop people interrupting or otherwise putting him off.
So far, mixed progress. His 'Sit, stay' has improved a lot already, and I've finally got him to sit at the door and let me out first - although when I turn to release him, he anticipates the signal and launches himself out of the door like a rocket.
Loose lead; very mixed, sometimes awful - mouths the lead and is determined to play, rather than concentrate.
He doesn't listen or respond to my commands consistently, so I'm struggling to get him to co-operate.
The trainer was very firm with him from the start and he immediately responded to that, but he's running rings round me and I'm not sure how to progress?
We're both really missing the walks and I need to be able to take him out again asap, for both our sakes!
Any advice welcome please. I will update with (hopefully) progress.
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I can't give you any advice, Reese is back on a long line after he ignored me to run up to a poor nervous dog to play! Just wanted to say well done for taking action, wish you luck and give you some moral support . :bigarmhug:
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No advice - only sympathy and support. With everywhere around us awash with sheep and lambs Mr B and Annie are confined to long leads for the present.
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First of all, well done for taking action and tackling this. I pretty much did everything wrong with Henry too and am still working on fixing things. You'll get there so much quicker with positive support from your trainer.
I know it's frustrating missing your normal walks, but your trainer is absolutely right. If you do nothing but work on the lead walking, you WILL crack it. It's been a real issue for you, I know, so try to remember that a few weeks now, maybe a month, dedicated to this will immeasurably improve your life - and your relationship with Blue. At the end of it, he may not walk perfectly to heel, but he will stop dragging you around. The first week of my lead training regime with Henry was immensely frustrating. We barely moved and I thought he wasn't getting it at all. Sometime in the second week things started to improve, and then they got better and better. With consistent practice and some maturing on his part, we can have a really nice lead walk now.
And that means you can still have nice walks while working on the recall, and can pop him back on the lead when you need to for his safety and that of other animals. That takes a lot of pressure off as well.
I've also really worked on sits, downs and stays in the past few months. Much more consistently than before. Again, it seems at first like he's not getting it. You have to see it through - that's where I went wrong before, leaving things half-trained.
You can do this! *waves pom-poms*
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First of all, well done for taking action and tackling this. I pretty much did everything wrong with Henry too and am still working on fixing things. You'll get there so much quicker with positive support from your trainer.
I know it's frustrating missing your normal walks, but your trainer is absolutely right. If you do nothing but work on the lead walking, you WILL crack it. It's been a real issue for you, I know, so try to remember that a few weeks now, maybe a month, dedicated to this will immeasurably improve your life - and your relationship with Blue. At the end of it, he may not walk perfectly to heel, but he will stop dragging you around. The first week of my lead training regime with Henry was immensely frustrating. We barely moved and I thought he wasn't getting it at all. Sometime in the second week things started to improve, and then they got better and better. With consistent practice and some maturing on his part, we can have a really nice lead walk now.
And that means you can still have nice walks while working on the recall, and can pop him back on the lead when you need to for his safety and that of other animals. That takes a lot of pressure off as well.
I've also really worked on sits, downs and stays in the past few months. Much more consistently than before. Again, it seems at first like he's not getting it. You have to see it through - that's where I went wrong before, leaving things half-trained.
You can do this! *waves pom-poms*
Good advice from LG, I too have been guilty of moving on too quickly and ending up with a few half good things. If I had my time again I would get loose lead nailed before moving on to ANYTHING else.
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Pom-poms much appreciated, thank you! :005:
Long line was a disaster this morning, he just wanted a tug of war with it >:(
This afternoon though, he's been really good, we've had three 10 minute loose lead walks up and down our cul de sac with few distractions, and once he realises what we're doing, he seems quick to set to. As long as I have sausage, all's well!
I'm also cultivating LG's 'Look at me' signal, by holding the treat up to my face, and that's working well too.
'Sit, stay' has been consistently good this afternoon, even when the cat strolled by mid exercise and gave him the side eye.
Have had to reduce his normal food quite significantly though, to allow use of more treats.
The trainer did say he is a quick learner so it should be achievable in a short time frame (easy for her to say!).
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This sounds like the person I need to help with Mollie!
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Pom-poms much appreciated, thank you! :005:
Long line was a disaster this morning, he just wanted a tug of war with it >:(
This afternoon though, he's been really good, we've had three 10 minute loose lead walks up and down our cul de sac with few distractions, and once he realises what we're doing, he seems quick to set to. As long as I have sausage, all's well!
I'm also cultivating LG's 'Look at me' signal, by holding the treat up to my face, and that's working well too.
'Sit, stay' has been consistently good this afternoon, even when the cat strolled by mid exercise and gave him the side eye.
Have had to reduce his normal food quite significantly though, to allow use of more treats.
The trainer did say he is a quick learner so it should be achievable in a short time frame (easy for her to say!).
Sounds like you are making brilliant progress already. Don't be put off by bad days, either, when it feels like everything is going backwards. I found days like that were often followed by real breakthroughs. One step back to take two forwards, if you know what I mean!
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The trainer was very firm with him from the start and he immediately responded to that, but he's running rings round me and I'm not sure how to progress?
I've found that I have to cultivate a whole new persona to get attention and obedience from Ollie at times - I have to slow myself right down with very purposeful movements and lower my voice. At times my partner and I (both female) have to do 'the gorilla', which is where we slowly puff ourselves up, move our arms outstretched and above so as to create a larger profile , breath very slowly and deeply and attempt to speak in the deepest tone possible...and Ollie transforms from being out of control monster to 'whatever you say, boss'! It's ridiculous for anyone else looking on, but it works. :lol: This works mainly in the house (because we don't mind looking foolish then) but also works out and about when we can brings ourselves to do it and nobody else is looking on. I can get a much more reliable return to hand by demanding it from Ollie than I can by cajoling with treats - he seems to lose respect when we try this (snatch the treat and then run off and please himself again).
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The trainer was very firm with him from the start and he immediately responded to that, but he's running rings round me and I'm not sure how to progress?
I've found that I have to cultivate a whole new persona to get attention and obedience from Ollie at times - I have to slow myself right down with very purposeful movements and lower my voice. At times my partner and I (both female) have to do 'the gorilla', which is where we slowly puff ourselves up, move our arms outstretched and above so as to create a larger profile , breath very slowly and deeply and attempt to speak in the deepest tone possible...and Ollie transforms from being out of control monster to 'whatever you say, boss'! It's ridiculous for anyone else looking on, but it works. :lol: This works mainly in the house (because we don't mind looking foolish then) but also works out and about when we can brings ourselves to do it and nobody else is looking on. I can get a much more reliable return to hand by demanding it from Ollie than I can by cajoling with treats - he seems to lose respect when we try this (snatch the treat and then run off and please himself again).
Absolutely agree here - a lot of books mention this and both the trainers I used pulled me up on this - walking with head up, shoulders back and positive stride is more effective wIth lead management for example than just ambling along. I tend to have a pretty lazy posture most of the time and don't exactly radiate authority and I do think it makes a difference, - its not dominance but just a sign if leadership and that's what dogs want. Only wish I would remember to follow my own advice! ;)
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I think you both have a very good point. Shoulders back, chin up. I must command, not plead!
The trainer did say I needed to be more confident with him, now you come to mention it.
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Hopeless today. My husband is at home, clearing out the garage, and Blue is just too distracted to do anything. He's so worried about missing out on something. *sigh*
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There's an internet abbreviation: FOMO - Fear Of Missing Out. It describes cockers to a t! There are some days when the distractions are just too great.
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Much better today. Assisted by a pocket full of snippets of steak, left over from last night, we have so far had three good goes at loose lead walking up and down the cul de sac, even coping with the distraction of neighbours. I've asked my neighbours only to fuss him when he has all 4 paws on the floor, and he's getting the hang of that quickly.
I may attempt a short walk on the road this evening.
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Well done! That sounds promising, you feel far more motivated once you start to see things working. I was advised last week to leave out breakfast and use the allowance for training. We tried it this morning and must admit Humphrey's attention span was much better (attention not on me but my pocket but hey ho - can't have everything!!). He ate two frankfurter sausages (😱😱) in all but ......it worked!!
Hope Blue doesn't become too much of a connoisseur though -he'll be asking for his steak cooked rare soon, (with a slurp of Burgundy to wash it down!!!) :005: :005:
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Saw even more improvement this afternoon, so I decided to keep on with what we are doing, rather than risk it all going belly up by heading out on the road too soon. He's been really good on the loose lead, and sit & stay, even when he saw his favourite neighbour heading towards us.
Having high value rewards has definitely helped today. I cut his meals right down, as trainer said he was just a bit too well covered, and to watch it with the treats.
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I am so delighted to hear that. And you are just right not to rush things.
I do think that starting over when they are that bit older makes things easier. You can see the little lightbulbs going off over their heads, and they are so happy when they realise they've made you happy.
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A couple of little Eureka moments this morning, which I have to share!
Firstly, Blue sat at the back door and waited for me to go through first WITHOUT BEING ASKED! :lol2:
Then, whilst loose lead walking on the cul de sac a little later on, our next door neighbour appeared on the horizon with her 5 month old collie pup - Blue and he are great pals and playmates, so I knew it would be impossible to maintain the loose lead. However, he did sit and stay whilst my neighbour walked her pup past us, even though he really, really wanted to play.
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Great result, well done 👍
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That's fantastic!, Well done Blue!!! Keep it up!!! :clapdance:
Humphrey has to be reminded every time not to charge through the dog before me, strange how some things they seem to adopt straight away and yet with other things the penny just never seems to drop.
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OK, not posted an update for a couple of days.
Yesterday we ventured a bit further, out onto the main road, as all seemed quiet. As soon as we got out of the cul de sac, he was excited to be off somewhere, nose to the ground and pulling like a crazy thing. So we didn't go far, I just kept stopping and putting him back where I wanted him. I did the same again a few hours later, and he was doing ok, so we went a bit further up the street, but then I realised it was 3.15 as I saw children swarming out of the village school (my fault, for not being aware of the time). However, he did a nice long 'sit, stay' whilst they all went by. so I let him onto the green for a sniff as a reward, and then back home again.
Today we've just been up to the green and back, but he's pulling like a train and nose down again. He wouldn't look at me, didn't listen, etc. A lady appeared on the horizon with a very small dog (French Bulldog, I think?), I got him to 'sit and stay' so they could pass by, all was going well, but then he jumped up to greet the dog as it passed. >:( I feel like I'm getting a bit short on patience. Do you think I have forged ahead too quickly? I'm keen to get out on regular walks again, for my own selfish reasons.
Unfortunately I can't train him at home today, we've got gardeners in to top some trees and cut back hedges, and Blue is just dying to get involved in all that.
The trainer told me not to let him sniff and scent mark on walks; all his attention should be on me, but I can't see how I can stop this?
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First of all, don't be discouraged!
Second, it's my guess that you've gone too fast. It's less than a week since you first posted about your new regime. It took me two weeks to see any glimmer that Henry was thinking about what I wanted rather than just responding to the treats in my hand. The key for me was doing heel work without a lead at home (lots of positioning games where he got a reward for being in the position I wanted) combined with lead walks where we did nothing but enforce the wanted position. Especially if he had a bad day or regressed a little, the games at home really helped cement it in his head what it was I wanted from him. I often did five minutes of that before we went out on the lead.
I KNOW how frustrating this process is. I really missed proper walks while we were training. I've been extremely guilty of rushing training in the past, but when my walker refused to take Henry anymore until both his lead walking and recall were sorted, I had no choice but to stick with it. And this time it worked because I went at Henry's pace. One of the things that tipped me off to the fact we were actually making progress was when he started self-correcting. Then you know the penny has dropped!
I understand your trainer wants Blue focussed on the training and I'd say Henry was involved enough in getting rewards that he did focus. But I certainly wouldn't want to be doing that sort of walking every time we are on the lead, and I hope your trainer wasn't suggesting it as a permanent thing. Our puppy trainer (who trains explosives sniffer spaniels!) told us to march down the middle of the pavement and never let Henry sniff at anything. Seems such a mean thing to do to a spaniel.
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Good post (again 😁) from LG
I would add that it seems training anything is a slow gradual process and I know that I have been guilty of frustration and changing method or just moving to fast.
A friend of mine and a very accomplished dog man uses the following expression "just keep nibbling away at it" I think even the very slightest improvement should be praised, I suppose that is the whole theory of shaping or in my case muddling 😁
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Thanks. The trainer did indeed suggest that any sniffing should be a reward and not allowed on normal walks, I was told not to let him be between me and the wall because it encourages 'wall hugging' (sniffing and scent marking), but actually we have narrow pavements here (if any) and our village is used as a rat run by commuters so is, at times, very dangerously busy with cars, so I would prefer Blue to be on the side of the wall rather than the side of the traffic.
I'm sure you're right LG, I went too fast. I was encouraged by his good behaviour a couple of days back, and as I say, my fat self needs to get back on the road soon...
It's back to jankers on the cul due sac for Blue then, and heel sessions in the house - never thought of that, and trainer never suggested it either, but makes so much sense, thank you.
The gardeners have gone now, so at least he can go in the garden for a run about off lead. I'll have to do my own walks when he's gone to bed!
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Thanks. The trainer did indeed suggest that any sniffing should be a reward and not allowed on normal walks, I was told not to let him be between me and the wall because it encourages 'wall hugging' (sniffing and scent marking), but actually we have narrow pavements here (if any) and our village is used as a rat run by commuters so is, at times, very dangerously busy with cars, so I would prefer Blue to be on the side of the wall rather than the side of the traffic.
I'm sure you're right LG, I went too fast. I was encouraged by his good behaviour a couple of days back, and as I say, my fat self needs to get back on the road soon...
It's back to jankers on the cul due sac for Blue then, and heel sessions in the house - never thought of that, and trainer never suggested it either, but makes so much sense, thank you.
The gardeners have gone now, so at least he can go in the garden for a run about off lead. I'll have to do my own walks when he's gone to bed!
Good luck trying to stop a spaniel hunting on scent 😞
We are the same, the lane shown in the short vid I posted is used by probably a dozen local ish dogs every day and the scent must be very high. Eze just has a sniff every now and then so I just stop and let her because during these times she ain't pulling 👍
Would be different if she was "lining" one particular scent trail I expect.
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I allow sniffing as a reward for good walking, both overtly and surreptitiously. If Henry is walking nicely I'll casually veer to where he wants to sniff so he doesn't realise I've done it and the lead stays loose.
If he pulls towards something for a sniff, I stop, and lean very slightly in the opposite direction to make sure he can't reach the Interesting Thing by pulling. He'll soon realise he's not getting anywhere and come back to my side. I'll then start walking towards the Interesting Thing. If he pulls again, we stop again. However long it takes, he WILL get to the Interesting Thing, but only when the lead is loose.
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I allow sniffing as a reward for good walking, both overtly and surreptitiously. If Henry is walking nicely I'll casually veer to where he wants to sniff so he doesn't realise I've done it and the lead stays loose.
If he pulls towards something for a sniff, I stop, and lean very slightly in the opposite direction to make sure he can't reach the Interesting Thing by pulling. He'll soon realise he's not getting anywhere and come back to my side. I'll then start walking towards the Interesting Thing. If he pulls again, we stop again. However long it takes, he WILL get to the Interesting Thing, but only when the lead is loose.
Good tip LG can I borrow it 😁
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Don't get discouraged Blueberry, Humphrey's nearly 2 now and although we're progressing, it really doesn't happen overnight - I know how frustrating it is but do try to keep positive and celebrate every little success, however small it is. Try to set yourself easier goals - (the next lamp post without pulling, instead of the end of the road.....)so you can measure the successes.
I tried a tip from Zak George when Humphrey's really badly distracted - stop and get him to do something he can do so that you have an opportunity to praise him - a sit and look at you for a couple of seconds, a down or even "give me paw" or whatever he can do well. It sometimes just works in getting his attention back on you. Blue's still very young, he and you WILL get there but don't put yourself under pressure by trying to achieve too much too quickly. We're all still in the battle with you, you're by no means on your own, as all the posts have shown, so chin up and keep on trucking!!, :cool4: ;)
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Well done Blueberry ( and Blue).
I've just read this thread from start to finish and feel your frustration.
There's probably no hard and fast rule for the speed at which to progress training. Our boy seems to learn things very quickly, but takes several weeks of repetition for it to sink in. His predecessor took considerably longer but for her once it had sunk in, it was imprinted for life. They're all different, just like us. You seem to be doing a fine job of identifying where things are starting to unravel.
The sitting at the door thing is a good indicator of his acceptance of you as leader of the pack....at least in that specific place:-)
Please keep the updates coming. Its interesting and encouraging to read of the progress you're both making.
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Thanks for the pep talk guys! All your advice is good, and very welcome. 'Pace & patience' will be my new mantra ;)
The 'sit, stay' is pretty good now, already a big improvement, and the 'sit and wait' at the door is something I never thought he would catch on to, but turned out to be one of the first things. Now I need to show him that the same rule applies at any gate, door or other threshold.
The 'no sniffing' thing troubles me quite a bit; he's an entire male spaniel, and surely sniffing and scent marking is what they live for?
(The trainer did say that he would be easier to train if he were castrated, but I'm still undecided on that issue, and leaning towards keeping him as is).
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Henry is neutered and bloody difficult to train. I very much doubt it would make any difference.
It sounds like your trainer has some excellent methods, but there are always allowances to be made for breed and temperament. I have a feeling that stopping Blue from sniffing altogether will make life miserable for you both. That's not to say he should be allowed to do it whenever he wants. Just that a bit of compromise may be necessary.
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Thanks. The trainer did indeed suggest that any sniffing should be a reward and not allowed on normal walks, I was told not to let him be between me and the wall because it encourages 'wall hugging' (sniffing and scent marking), but actually we have narrow pavements here (if any) and our village is used as a rat run by commuters so is, at times, very dangerously busy with cars, so I would prefer Blue to be on the side of the wall rather than the side of the traffic.
I'm sure you're right LG, I went too fast. I was encouraged by his good behaviour a couple of days back, and as I say, my fat self needs to get back on the road soon...
It's back to jankers on the cul due sac for Blue then, and heel sessions in the house - never thought of that, and trainer never suggested it either, but makes so much sense, thank you.
The gardeners have gone now, so at least he can go in the garden for a run about off lead. I'll have to do my own walks when he's gone to bed!
I can get Millie walking really well on a loose lead with the aid of plenty of sausages. But, in my opinion it is not a nutural and enjoyable walk for her. She spends the whole time looking at my hand waiting for her next treat and I would much prefer her to be sniffing for scent etc which, as we all know, is a cocker pastime.
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Absolutely agree there - obviously there's a time and place for everything but stopping a spaniel sniffing would be like stopping a greyhound running, its what they've been bred to do!!
Castration / behaviour is one of those points where you can ask ten people and get 20 opinions, every dog is different!
All we can do with all these trainers' opinions is to take on board what suits us, what works for us and our dogs but be prepared to disgard some of it as it won't always apply and rely on our own gut instincts. You're doing fine..... ;)
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Poor Blue, he's had a lousy week. Firstly, no proper walks, and he really doesn't understand why not.
Then on Thursday, he was in the boot of my car when someone ran into the back of it at speed - thank God he wasn't hurt, but he was in shock for the rest of the day.
Then today, he was attacked by a 9 month old German Shorthaired Pointer that's staying with my neighbours for the weekend. I blame myself. Blue has met this dog previously, and they got on famously, but obviously they have both grown up in the intervening period. I blithely wandered round with Blue to let them play together, but the GSP has not been socialised or taught how to behave and he went for Blue in a big way. Blue was submissive, and screamed blue murder, but the other dog went wild and it gave him (and me) a dreadful fright. Horrible. :'(
Blue has been very anxious and clingy all afternoon, I hope it hasn't done any permanent damage, he's such a sociable little fella.
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What an upsetting experience. Hopefully Blue will shake it off. Henry was attacked by a beagle but was much younger - about 5 months old. It was awful - he went haring off, running flat to the ground, in a blind panic, blood dripping from his ear where he'd been bitten. The next day we went back to the same park and it was like nothing had happened. Hopefully Blue will be the same.
Hugs all round.
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Oh poor Blue!! Humphrey had a similar experience with a dog of the same age - it didn't seem to have any effect on him socializing with other dogs but he hasn't forgotton the dog that went for him and is agressive towards him when he sees him now. Hope Blue can put it behind him!
Glad that neither of you were hurt in the car - must have shaken you both up!!
Is he not allowed off lead at all at the moment?
Lots of big hugs for Blue, - you sound as if a little glass of something to finish off a ****** week might do you good! ;)
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The more I think about it, the worse I feel! The GSP broke free from a steel cable tether, which was screwed into the ground. Blue was on his lead, but I lost my grip of it when it all kicked off. It took 3 of us to separate them. Because Blue is such a lovely, friendly little softpot, I just assume all other dogs are the same. I'm so cross with myself for putting him in that situation.
I don't blame the GSP; sadly, he has been let down by stupid owners who did no research before they bought a puppy. They haven't trained or socialised him, and keep him penned or on a very short lead all the time. He is not the right dog for their circumstances, and is as frustrated as all hell.
Thankfully neighbours just have him for the weekend, and they were mortified, they both adore Blue.
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The more I think about it, the worse I feel! The GSP broke free from a steel cable tether, which was screwed into the ground. Blue was on his lead, but I lost my grip of it when it all kicked off. It took 3 of us to separate them. Because Blue is such a lovely, friendly little softpot, I just assume all other dogs are the same. I'm so cross with myself for putting him in that situation.
I don't blame the GSP; sadly, he has been let down by stupid owners who did no research before they bought a puppy. They haven't trained or socialised him, and keep him penned or on a very short lead all the time. He is not the right dog for their circumstances, and is as frustrated as all hell.
Thankfully neighbours just have him for the weekend, and they were mortified, they both adore Blue.
Can't be helped Blueberry and by the sounds of things if you'd still have had the lead it might have been even worse. Its just one of those things that sometimes happen, you can't foresee everything and at least Blue has you - the other poor dog doesn't sound as lucky!! :'(
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I'm a bit perplexed as to how to move things on, and I feel in need of another little breakthrough soon, to keep me motivated and optimistic.
Blue has cottoned on to 'heel work' on the cut de sac, and will stroll up and down it all day long with a loose lead. However, as soon as we get to the end, close to the main road, his nose goes down, he pulls like a mad thing, and he is no longer interested in my sausage, cheese etc., nor does he listen to anything I say - he just wants to sniff, sniff, sniff and pee, and nothing else matters!
Also, he discovered that he can jump over the wall between our house and next door, where they have a 5 month old collie pup and an older collie bitch, both of which are playmates. The wall is only 18 inches high at our side, but because we're on a steep slope, there a 3 foot drop at the other side, and he can't get back into our garden by himself (even if he wanted to, which he doesn't! >:().
Three mornings in a row I've had to barge into next door's garden, and sheepishly frogmarch him home, past their enormous bi-folding patio doors, averting my eyes in case they're all sat there in their jim jams, munching cornflakes ...
This means a) recall has disappeared completely, and b) he can't be trusted off lead in our garden any longer, so progress to proper walks really needs to be expedited.
Any tips folks?
On the plus side, his sit & stay are really very much improved, and we've totally cracked the door etiquette, which also works to stop him leaping from the car as soon as the door is opened.. He will also sit and stay whilst favourite people and doggy pals walk past, which is amazing!
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Decided to venture out this morning. School hols means the village is a bit quieter than usual.
Went up to the green, constantly having to put him back in position, as all he wanted to do was pull ahead; sniff, pee, sniff, pee, sniff ...
After about half a mile he seemed to calm down a bit, so I decided to carry on round the block. Once he had stopped to do his business, he seemed a lot calmer, and on the return leg he was pretty much to heel all the way - although it cost me dear in cheese and dried sprats!
We didn't meet anyone, or any of his doggy pals today. From my perspective, it felt good to be out again, doing a 'proper' walk, and he has slept a lot since, and (according to husband) was very well behaved when I had to go out for a couple of hours.
Hopefully, we have turned a corner.
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That sounds brilliant. I read your post last night and have been pondering since what to suggest. But it sounds like you've made great progress today. Slow and steady...
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Sounds like real progress, well done 👍
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Thanks, just repeated the same walk, with similar outcome. About 60:40 pulling/heel. We met one of his doggy pals and he was very good, sat quietly after greeting, got a bit restless after he realised I was stopping for a long chat with the owner, but walked home very nicely to heel after that.
I'm feeling much happier - and I've managed to do my 10,000 steps today, for the first time in a fortnight!
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Sounds like you're really making progress, I think the best way to motivate yourself is to keep reminding yourself how he was a couple of weeks ago - even when you have little setbacks occasionally you're in a much better place than before. Maybe keeping a little diary (like Londongirl did with Henry) would be useful!!
My experience with Humphrey sounds similar in that he'll walk well on certain stretches of the walk but not others and I think those are the places where we've done more training and he's got more treats - he does seem to associate certain places with certain behaviours so when we go somewhere new, he gets really excited and it like we're back to square one but I'm sure its just a matter of consistant practice in lots of different situations.....
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I think he was very excited to be 'out' again, I knew he was bored rigid with ambling up and down our little cul de sac (and so was I). I suppose it's to be expected that he would go like a bull at a gate. There are a couple of places in the village that he's always in a big hurry to get to, I suppose they are popular dog toileting spots and he gets a lot of satisfaction from sniffing and marking there. Once we got past those he was much calmer and became more interested in the treats I had. Tomorrow I'll take him a different route to avoid those spots, and see how that affects him.
He went to bed early this evening. Normally he asks to go in his crate around 6 - 6.30pm, but this evening he took himself to it at 5.15!
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I think they do find it hard work - (so do I as a matter of fact! ;)) - half an hour heel walking for Humphrey seems more exhausting than tearing around for a couple of hours off lead....... :D
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Hard, hard work. Still plodding round the same block, with more pulling than loose lead. Stop, start, stop, start ...
This morning we had an extra distraction as, on our way out, we met a neighbour with her dog and walked with them - something we used to do regularly prior to Boot camp. Blue was excited to see his pal, so paid little attention to me until we parted company with the neighbour at the end of the walk and did the last 100 yards on our own.
The increase in training treats is having an unpleasant knock on effect on (ahem) motions. I'm trying to get more distance between rewards, but most of the time he's not actually interested in anything I've got to offer because 'There's THINGS to SNIFF!'.
Sigh. Tomorrow's another day ...
Might try a little video tomorrow, and you can all critique ;)
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Looking forward to the video Blueberry! .. but please don't let Blue look tooooo good, am still feeling very inadequate after watching Henry (Londongirl) :005: :005: - poor Humphrey's having a bad hair day!! :badmood:
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C'mon now, if I can do it, anyone can! I should have done a 'before' video so you could have seen the whirling dervish on his hind legs at the end of the lead, charging through the undergrowth and dragging me and my poor shoulder with him.
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:005: :005:
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Realised this morning that I am unable to record a video, walk, hold the lead, and hold the treats necessary for nice heel walking all at the same time!
I'll try and get hubs to do one tomorrow for me.
Meanwhile, we didn't walk as far today, but he behaved much better, although there is still a lot of pulling if he is distracted by any passers by or (especially) another dog walker.
He is so very friendly, he just expects to be allowed to greet everyone and accept their inevitable fussing. Not that I am complaining, it's a joy to have such a sweet natured and friendly dog that loves everyone and is loved by them in return.
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It's been a while since my last update, and I have been envious of those of you making such good progress!
Training is ongoing, but I had to abandon the idea of not going anywhere until nice heel walking was achieved and proofed in all environments, as we were both getting depressed by the monotony of plodding up and down the cul de sac, and I knew my temper was fraying.
So, the first walk every morning is a write off, a total pull fest, because he is so excited to be out, and desperate to get to his favoured toileting spot. Once business is concluded. things start to settle down and I've noticed he is increasingly self correcting and then looking at me for his reward. By late afternoon we can have a nice long walk, with little pulling.
Crossing the road and getting in and out of the front door are very well controlled now.
The biggest problems occur on steep hills and narrow pavements, both of which we have in abundance in our village, and all of which lead to exciting doggy walking spots. When he's dying to get somewhere, he loses the plot completely!
In the main though, I would say behaviour and obedience are much improved and I find he is much more co-operative when I am relaxed and have forgotten that we are supposed to be 'training'.
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That is brilliant progress. You may find that the over-excitement on the first walk calms down if you carry on strongly reinforcing good walking when you do get it during the course of the day. Sometimes behaviours extinguish slowly. And it may also improve with age (his, not yours!).
Henry still pulls when we get out of the car and are about to set off into the park. I don't let him off the lead until we are well in and I have his attention (because recall is still an issue if I let him have his head) and he really strains to get going. But I'm finding that very, very gradually, that pulling is getting less and he has started to throw in a few self-corrections. There is light at the end of the tunnel.
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That's good news, - Blue sounds a bit like Humphrey really, the first few minutes or so are the same for us and then things do start to settle down a bit. I know how you feel and it can get so frustrating, I really just try ro keep reminding myself how he was a year ago but it is the inconsistancy that really gets to me. I think your last sentence just about sums it up though, they do seem to be so sensitive to our moods and behave accordingly but the good news is, the better they become, the more relaxed we are and that hopefully will be the upward spiral towards perfection!! That's my theory anyway and I'm clinging onto it for dear life!! :005:
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I sympathise BL, its an ongoing struggle and even when you get something trained it needs constant maintenance. Totally agree re the mood thing. I have found that if I think she is not going to comply with a command for instance "leave that" then she will run for the bird or rabbit or whatever BUT if I give the command thinking she will comply then she does (usually) it's as though she can sense my confidence or lack of in her or she thinks "nah you don't really mean it and you cant really stop me"
I find the dog psychology aspect of training quite fascinating.....or should that be frustrating.....one of the two 😁
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I sympathise BL, its an ongoing struggle and even when you get something trained it needs constant maintenance. Totally agree re the mood thing. I have found that if I think she is not going to comply with a command for instance "leave that" then she will run for the bird or rabbit or whatever BUT if I give the command thinking she will comply then she does (usually) it's as though she can sense my confidence or lack of in her or she thinks "nah you don't really mean it and you cant really stop me"
I find the dog psychology aspect of training quite fascinating.....or should that be frustrating.....one of the two 😁
It makes you think though doesn't it, - if we get frustrated, how must they feel having to try and make sense of our moods and whims and very probably inconsistant commands ... :005: Wouldn't it be lovely to know what they think of us? - or maybe we'd rather not know! ;)
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Perhaps they have their own site(s) to exchange their worries and frustrations about us. Called CoL? Cockers on Lamp posts. That's what they are really doing when they sniff. Checking for replies to their posts!
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Perhaps they have their own site(s) to exchange their worries and frustrations about us. Called CoL? Cockers on Lamp posts. That's what they are really doing when they sniff. Checking for replies to their posts!
:clapping: :005:
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if training treats are causing messy poops, you're unbalancing the diet. My trainer, as posted on Other Pets has ordered me not to feed meals,and use the entire allowance as training treats. Loads of eye contact , rewarded by Yes+treat. First in house,then garden, then the lane, gthen carparks with safe distractions and other dogs all on leads. At the moment we are failing abysmally at carparks. You're right. It's hard work.
I'm missing proper walks too, but my neighbour has an empty horse field and I can take him on a long line to run about without threats!
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Blueberry - reading you last post, I'm wondering, does Blue wait to toilet until his walk? Is there somewhere at home he could go before you go out? Or is it more of a territory marking thing? Just wondering if there is something you can tweak there to make the first walk a bit calmer.
Henry poops shortly after nine every morning like clockwork. If we are already heading out, he'll wait until we get to the park and I get no sense out of him until he has pooped and then run around in mad circles barking his head off (what's THAT about??). I've started taking him out the garden and encouraging him to poop before we go out.
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I see what you're getting at LG, but Blue's toileting is not something I can predict, really. I have him out in the garden first thing, occasionally poop happens, more often than not just wee. He has ample opportunity to go before we set out on our walk.
Usually poop occurs on the favoured spot; the hallowed turf in the centre of the village, but some days he will just randomly squat in the gutter. It seems to be something that he has little warning of, and when it's on the way there's no holding it.
Pleased to say, since I've been baking my own training treats, the messy poops have stopped, and he loves them, so behaviour continues to improve. He is raw fed at mealtimes and I would not want to stop giving him that to only give him training treats, although I can see the logic in that method.