CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Puppies => Topic started by: ollie1 on April 13, 2017, 11:25:48 PM
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Quick question
I'm off to view a puppy on Saturday. It's registered with the kennel club as a chocolate cocker spaniel. But after looking through loads of pictures it looks almost identical to this little guy - (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170413/853ae2c55fffa3753c397a46d0c910da.jpg)
I'd personally say it was a sable cocker not a chocolate. Do I need to contact the kennel club if I end up purchasing this puppy as it's colours described wrongly? Or am I just being a worry wart?
Many thanks
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I'm no expert but he looks like what I understand under "sable" aswell. Not quite sure about KC but here in Germany, sables aren't recognized by the official powers that be, so my Humphrey (gold sable) would be excluded from shows.
I personally think they're beautiful and Humphrey's breeder here chose to deliberately breed them, presumabely because lots of other people think the same!
It is ofcourse your choice but I think if its a KC registered pup and the breeder is selling it as such, then the details should be correct on the paperwork. (Do KC do checks? The spaniel club here have to do a visit to verify authentification)
If your's looks like the one in the photo, then he's gorgeous!!! :luv: Do keep us posted!!
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Ditto what Jayne wrote.
Our boy Barnaby is a liver WCS (albeit with an orange ass) and his brothers and sisters were far more obviously sable like the little cutie in the pictures. His breeder specifically breeds working dogs, which is what we wanted, and what we've got.
This is our second cocker, and all I can tell you is that he's an absolute sweetheart and star. But we have absolutely no interest in showing him. He's strictly a working member of the family.
So, if you're looking to show or breed from your new pup its a good idea to get further advice. But if you're looking for a good cocker, just follow your heart and instincts. The one in the pic you posted we'd snap up straight away.
Good luck with your choice.
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I have two sables, and my first boy looks identical to the picture you've posted. He is KC registered but under colour it states 'colour not recognised'. It's also the case for my chocolate sable boy. I would be slightly concerned about them being called chocolate. You can register them as sables but the KC just doesn't state the colour on their certificate.
But I personally think sables are adorable!! [emoji4]
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I love sables and my next Cocker would definitely be a sable ... :shades:
My understanding is that it's not actually the colour as such, but the pattern of the colour - so it could technically be both chocolate and sable? The KC discourage the breeding of sables because it is a dominant gene and could potentially wipe out all the 'true' colours in time, so that's why they won't register them.
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Thanks again for the advice guys.
ATM he's only 4wks old so I guess his colour could change slightly???
I'll post pictures on Saturday after I've left a deposit on him (if that's what we choose to do) in my eyes he's gorgeous and he would not be shown he's going to be a companion for us and my other blue roan & tan cocker Ollie.
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Hi Ollie1
If he is a companion dog then will the KC colour description matter ?
I believe Sable is a pattern and not a Colour, so you can have Blue Roan Sable, Chocolate a Roan sable etc, I'm sure someone will be along soon if I'm wrong.
His colour will change slightly if he is a Roan, ether way I bet he is very beautiful and I think you are very lucky ,where is the Green eyed imoji when you need it :005:
Sharon.
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I remember when I was a child growing up my grandmother had I think it's called wolf sable Pomeranian called Kena, I remember thinking it was such a beautiful colour but remember hating the dog because it used to bite me lol I was only 6yrs old at the time.
She also had a pure white Labrador retriever called Bart after Bart Simpson [emoji1303] I loved that dog he was so gentle and kind like a big teddy bear. I could never understand at the time why Bart was so nice to me and Kena hated me lol
As you can understand I'm a little scared of tiny toy breeds and mostly Yorkshire terriers and Pomeranians.
My cocker Ollie has been perfect and I couldn't ask for a better behaved or more loyal or loving dog. I'm totally and utterly I love with him and his silly behaviour. Everyday he does something to make me laugh and that tail!
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Yes this puppy is a sable. The fact he isn't described as such perhaps raised a concern that the breeder is not that knowledgeable or experienced? Do check that the breeder is a good one, can answer your questions fully and of course has carried out all the recommended health tests.
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Hi Ollie1
If he is a companion dog then will the KC colour description matter ?
I believe Sable is a pattern and not a Colour, so you can have Blue Roan Sable, Chocolate a Roan sable etc, I'm sure someone will be along soon if I'm wrong.
His colour will change slightly if he is a Roan, ether way I bet he is very beautiful and I think you are very lucky ,where is the Green eyed imoji when you need it :005:
Sharon.
Hiya Sharon
Nope it doesn't matter to me as he'd not be shown but I wondered if it mattered to the kennel club as their records for him would be wrong.
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Yes this puppy is a sable. The fact he isn't described as such perhaps raised a concern that the breeder is not that knowledgeable or experienced? Do check that the breeder is a good one, can answer your questions fully and of course has carried out all the recommended health tests.
I have a paper list I've compiled with loads of questions for them. I really hope I don't come across as too pushy and in their face. They own both the mum & dad and both pedigree certificates and parents can be seen. The pups were born and raised in a home environment "what we are after ideally" the breeder is keeping them till they're 10-12wks old as to socialise them correctly. The breeder has two children so they will hopefully be used to them however we don't have children in our family.
The pups will be microchipped and vaccinated, wormed and flea treated and sent away with insurance and some vet bedding from their old home.
Do you think it's wrong of me to ask about parents health? I'm going to ask the general question about have they had the recommended health tests anyway, but I thought about asking them if his parents have ever had operations in the past and if they're on medication for ongoing illnesses.
I really want to make sure I'm doing the right thing.
The puppy will be Insured with petplan on their premium tariff as our current cocker has no insurance and we know just how expensive vet bills can be so we're not chancing anything with this one.
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Absolutely ask all you like - you're paying for a dog that you're going to hopefully be spending a long time with so its essential you get it right! A good breeder will welcome questions, its proof to them that you are a responsible owner who has the dog's welfare at heart - they don't want their dogs just going to anybody and if she has nothing to hide, she'll answer you willingly!!
Best of luck! Keep us posted!!
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You are absolutely right to be asking loads of questions. Especially as you don't seem to have been told anything about the health tests that should have been carried out on both parents. I have a few alarm bells just ringing slightly.
The colour issue is worrying. Not because of the colour itself but because of the fact it has been miss-labelled. It could be a genuine mistake - which as Jane S says could be because they are inexperienced breeders - or it could be a lie to the KC to avoid having to explain why the colour is listed as "not recognised".
I'm not sure about wanting to keep the pups longer than 8 weeks either. Perhaps someone with more experience than me could clarify if this is good or not. I would worry that they would start to make too strong a bond with their littermates and that separation anxiety could be a problem when they are removed?
Being bred in a family environment may not necessarily a plus point. It could equally mean "back yard breeder". Sorry, I'm being blunt only to encourage you to ask, ask, ask. If they are not happy to answer all your questions (and any good breeder will welcome them) then walk away.
Good luck. I hope you get the answers you need. He's a sweetie.
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Blue was 10 weeks old when we brought him home, purely because we had commitments in the two weeks prior, meaning we couldn't accommodate him until then. One littermate remained unsold when we collected him (another gorgeous blue roan, just like ours). Getting him at 10 weeks had no detrimental effect on his temperament or bonding.
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Branston was 12 weeks when I picked him up due to other commitments and I really don't think it made that much difference to be honest, and anyway how would you know?
I had all his jabs done at the breeders so he was ready to go out (or close to it) when I bought him home.
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I'm not going to know what's happened until I see him and speak to his owners/breeders tomorrow. I'll keep you all posted and let you know the outcome.
I hope all my questions are answered as I won't lie I've fallen head over heals in love with this puppy. I've even got a name for him sorted and I'm a little excited about seeing him tomorrow.
But I also know I need to ask questions and have all my concerns answered.
Fingers crossed tomorrow goes well.
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I have looked online and found another sable boy for sale, he's more money but this is what the advertisement says -
After an overwhelming response to the ad we just have 1 sable boy, 2 sable girls and 2 blue roan sable boys left available to reserve. We have a stunning litter of full show type cocker spaniel babies. Mum and dad are both here to meet and dad is DNA clear for PRA and FN so babies can never develop either disease. They are being raised in our family home with 3 children and lots and lots of socialisation. They will be kc registered, wormed and fleaed to date and will have a full written record. They will have a full vet check and their first vaccinations done and be microchipped, they will also have 5 weeks free insurance. Thanks x
But as I read this it looks to me like only the dad is clear?!?!
Advice please
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The good thing about getting a puppy later is that they tend to learn more bite inhibition from siblings and should be less bitey. The disadvantage is not having control of the socialisation. The period up to about 12 weeks is the most important time for this. I got my dog after 12 weeks. She was never a cockerdile, but because the breeder had not socialised her, she was extremely fearful of everything and everyone. When my father met her he described her as a feral animal. It took ages to train her to function normally, and she is still a nervous type (of course some of this could be due to personality). I would have to trust a breeder a lot if I was to let a puppy stay there that long again. So I would actually ask a few questions about how she intends to socialise the puppies. Maybe she has a plan and you get a lot of great learning for free from someone with experience, that would be brilliant! But ask, because I took it for granted and I was mistaken. And of course you should be able to ask about health of the parents and siblings of parents and whatever else. A good breeder should be happy to see that the puppy is going to owners who care and who do research to ensure their dogs best interest :D
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Eze was six months when we got her. Never been in a house, not house trained (obviously) only been touched by breeder, vet and the bloke I got her from. He had done nothing with her apart from he had just introduced her to a recall whistle. Often wondered if its easier to get em as propper pups or a bit older ??
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I have looked online and found another sable boy for sale, he's more money but this is what the advertisement says -
After an overwhelming response to the ad we just have 1 sable boy, 2 sable girls and 2 blue roan sable boys left available to reserve. We have a stunning litter of full show type cocker spaniel babies. Mum and dad are both here to meet and dad is DNA clear for PRA and FN so babies can never develop either disease. They are being raised in our family home with 3 children and lots and lots of socialisation. They will be kc registered, wormed and fleaed to date and will have a full written record. They will have a full vet check and their first vaccinations done and be microchipped, they will also have 5 weeks free insurance. Thanks x
But as I read this it looks to me like only the dad is clear?!?!
Advice please
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Ideally, both sire and dam would have been tested clear. But as long as at least one is clear, as with this litter, none of the puppies will be affected by PRA or FN. Some or all of them may be carriers if the untested parent is herself either a carrier or affected, but none will ever develop either disease. So unless you intend to breed from your pup there isn't really an issue.
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I have looked online and found another sable boy for sale, he's more money but this is what the advertisement says -
After an overwhelming response to the ad we just have 1 sable boy, 2 sable girls and 2 blue roan sable boys left available to reserve. We have a stunning litter of full show type cocker spaniel babies. Mum and dad are both here to meet and dad is DNA clear for PRA and FN so babies can never develop either disease. They are being raised in our family home with 3 children and lots and lots of socialisation. They will be kc registered, wormed and fleaed to date and will have a full written record. They will have a full vet check and their first vaccinations done and be microchipped, they will also have 5 weeks free insurance. Thanks x
But as I read this it looks to me like only the dad is clear?!?!
Advice please
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Ideally, both sire and dam would have been tested clear. But as long as at least one is clear, as with this litter, none of the puppies will be affected by PRA or FN. Some or all of them may be carriers if the untested parent is herself either a carrier or affected, but none will ever develop either disease. So unless you intend to breed from your pup there isn't really an issue.
Just got back from seeing this puppy it was gorgeous as all puppies are -
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170414/49ae493fa3c53ad3d562cd7e6973848b.jpg)
I was told it's a black sable, I'm off to view the other puppy tomorrow morning and then it's time to make my mind up.
*mod note - photos edited for size. Please check the photo board information on how to post pictures the correct size. Large images are impossible to look at on tablets and phones without scrolling from side to side. thank you!
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OMG OMG OMG :luv: :luv: :luv: :lol2:
How adorable is that little munchkin?
And definitely a sable.
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Adorable. I don't envy you having to decide!! :luv: :luv:
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Oh WOW he is beautiful. A hard (but pleasurable) task indeed choosing from these.
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oh wow he/she is beautiful. A hard (but pleasurable) task indeed choosing from these.
It's a little boy.
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oh wow he/she is beautiful. A hard (but pleasurable) task indeed choosing from these.
It's a little boy.
haha you beat me to it, just realised when I re-read your post :D
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I'll post up some pictures of the other puppy tomorrow when I'm there.
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Oh goodness he is the spitting image of my boy when he was a pup! Just gorgeous!
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I have looked online and found another sable boy for sale, he's more money but this is what the advertisement says -
After an overwhelming response to the ad we just have 1 sable boy, 2 sable girls and 2 blue roan sable boys left available to reserve. We have a stunning litter of full show type cocker spaniel babies. Mum and dad are both here to meet and dad is DNA clear for PRA and FN so babies can never develop either disease. They are being raised in our family home with 3 children and lots and lots of socialisation. They will be kc registered, wormed and fleaed to date and will have a full written record. They will have a full vet check and their first vaccinations done and be microchipped, they will also have 5 weeks free insurance. Thanks x
But as I read this it looks to me like only the dad is clear?!?!
Advice please
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After an overwhelming response to the ad we just have 1 sable boy, 2 sable girls and 2 blue roan sable boys left if they have had an overwhelming response how come they have 5 pups :huh: How many were in the litter to start with ???
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I have looked online and found another sable boy for sale, he's more money but this is what the advertisement says -
After an overwhelming response to the ad we just have 1 sable boy, 2 sable girls and 2 blue roan sable boys left available to reserve. We have a stunning litter of full show type cocker spaniel babies. Mum and dad are both here to meet and dad is DNA clear for PRA and FN so babies can never develop either disease. They are being raised in our family home with 3 children and lots and lots of socialisation. They will be kc registered, wormed and fleaed to date and will have a full written record. They will have a full vet check and their first vaccinations done and be microchipped, they will also have 5 weeks free insurance. Thanks x
But as I read this it looks to me like only the dad is clear?!?!
Advice please
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After an overwhelming response to the ad we just have 1 sable boy, 2 sable girls and 2 blue roan sable boys left if they have had an overwhelming response how come they have 5 pups :huh: How many were in the litter to start with ???
Apparently they're a breeder
I went to view him yesterday and they had two litters of puppies same father different mother and a further black & Tan female heavily pregnant due in a few weeks.
I really don't want to say much until I've made my decision , but the new addition will be a pet/family member above anything else so I want to get him from the best loving home environment I can find. I want a happy pup full of the joys of spring that looks happy and contented.
I will be viewing the other pup today at 11am
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Oh goodness he is the spitting image of my boy when he was a pup! Just gorgeous!
Do you have any pictures of yours now?
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(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170415/6c8f1e7bd47824fcb126e6706faa903c.jpg)
These were the boys they had and they had a little sable girl left
I think my other half fell in love with them all [emoji252][emoji252][emoji252]
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*mod note - photos edited for size. Please check the photo board information on how to post pictures the correct size. Large images are impossible to look at on tablets and phones without scrolling from side to side. thank you!
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Here is monty as a pup, this picture was when he was about 4 weeks old
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170415/c94ebf62396e2cf5dd0ade8a77247895.jpg)
And this is him now! Just over two years
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170415/c4ae5252c208daf95eb6ea1232d306ea.jpg)
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What a little cracker Monty is, I must stop looking at these photos lol
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Monty is gorgeous ❤️❤️❤️
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Just gorgeous!!!
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Beautiful puppies! Making me feel quite fur baby broody! :luv: :luv:
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We've gone and done it!
We are or will be in the next few weeks be the proud owner(s) of this little boy -
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170415/ac806c8d8f76209de8cc12088d84de28.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170415/1c16e029e6e0224b6b7d1740fb2d572b.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170415/ffb8952164783a4516249fdbb98d1375.jpg)
His pedigree name is sweet chocolate fudge cake lad
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Aww so adorable ❤️❤️
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He is so sweet, what are you going to call him?
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He is so sweet, what are you going to call him?
We're currently thinking about Oscar we already have a Ollie and thought Ollie & Oscar had a nice ring to it.
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ooo Oscar and Ollie sounds good
he is adorable :luv:
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He is adorable! :luv: Oscar is a good name.
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COngratulations!! "Sweet chocolate fudge cake " - what would suit him better? Too yummy for words, absolutely gorgeous!!
Oscar and Ollie sound like a perfect team, (names have ring of mischievousness about them!! ;))
Looking forward to hearing about their escapades!!!
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Yep Ollie and Oscar sounds perfect - that was the our names too :luv:.....
He is a beautiful puppy :luv:
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Love the blue eyes and great name Oscar.......I hope he won't be Wilde!
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Love the blue eyes and great name Oscar.......I hope he won't be Wilde!
Ouch! :005: :005:
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Super name for the little fella, sure he will act the part ;)
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He's a little stunner! :luv:
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:luv: :luv: :luv: :luv: :luv:
Oh god I am sooooooooooooooooooo puppy broody.
;)
He is absolutely gorgeous!