CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Genetics & Breeding => Topic started by: Sandie on May 08, 2004, 04:50:51 PM
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Hi,
I am after some advice on breeding my first litter. This is not something i am going into lightly but have read loads of books and spoken to lots of people from the show world. It seems to me each breeder has their own ideas on caring for the bitch throughout the pregnancy and I want to do whatever is best for my little girl Aimee, so her puppies get the best start in life.
I have asked about folic acid. When do you start giving this to the bitch? I have been told once a week, every day from mating, every day from first day of season until five weeks from mating. What do you suggest I do and can you overdose a bitch on folic acid?
Some breeders feed wheatgerm, but how much do i give her and when do i start to give it? Some breeders give pure vitamin e. What is the difference between vitamin e and wheatgerm oil. I thought wheatgerm oil was full of vitamin e.
Has anyone used raspberry leaf tablets throughout a pregnancy? I used to give Aimee two tablets a day from first day of season for 12 weeks to stop her having a phantom pregnancy, recommended by Dorwest Herbs, but i also notice that you can give it to a bitch in whelp to help with the smooth whelping of the puppies and also to make sure that the afterbirths are expelled properly.
When do you start feeding the bitch up when you know she is definitely in whelp? Will Aimee let me know when she wants extra food, or is there a certain stage when I should start giving her extra? Then how many meals do I give her? What do i give her? Some breeders say puppy food for the extra protein, but what do you suggest I give her?
There also seems to be a mixed reaction when I have asked about extra calcium. Do I give any to Aimee during the pregnancy or do i only give it to her when she has had the puppies?
Sorry about all the questions. You may feel that they are somewhat stupid things to ask, but i want to make sure that i give my little the girl the best care i can when she is in whelp. This is both our first time and I am nervous as hell that something will go wrong because i have forgotten to give her something. Aimee's breeder has given me advice for which i am thankful, but i wanted to see what advice other breeders can give me.
If anyone has any further advice to add, I would be extremely grateful to you. Aimee should come into season any day now so I want to start on the right foot so to speak.
Many thanks to you all,
Sandra
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Hi Sandra,
I can see why you have so many questions to ask. Everyone you speak to will have an alternative way of breeding/rearing a litter.
My advice to you is, as you have contact with your bitches breeder, she is the one that will know her line and what suits her dogs the best, and so follow her advice and stick with it. You will always hear conflicting ways of doing things.
Good luck :D
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I am so excited for you :D It sounds like you are taking this very seriously. I hope that when Aimme gets pregnant you keep us updated all the way.
Kelly x
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Hi Sandie
Every breeder has their own particular ideas about what supplements to give & when etc :) All I would say is NEVER give calcium to a bitch before she whelps a litter - giving this to a pregnant bitch can increase the risk of her developing eclampsia & is simply not necessary anyway if you are feeding a good quality, balanced diet. I do give Folic Acid to our girls from the day of mating onwards but don't bother with any other supplements either before or after whelping. Don't worry, you cannot overdose a dog with Folic Acid as it is water soluble & any excess will be flushed from the body naturally & is not stored in the body. Another useful item to have in your whelping kit is the homeopathic remedy "Caulophlyllum" which helps with contractions (available from Dorwest) - I wouldn't be without this one.
Hopefully you will have ordered your "Book of The Bitch" by Evans & White too as this will answer many of your questions - no new breeder should be without this invaluable book!
Jane
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Hi Sandie
My mum and I decided to breed from our golden coker Lottie, and like you we were constintly worrying as to what could go wrong and what should be done when. The funniest thing was that when she was due to whelp, me and my mum couldn't see the signs (even though Lotties tummy was nearly on the floor :roll: ). We prepared the whelping box about 4 days before just so we weren't panicing when she started to give birth.
She didn't give us time to think before the first pup was out and breathing, the relief on our faces we couldn't quite believe it. Now I don't know how long the average time is to whelp a litter of 6 pups but I think Lottie must of had somewhere to go because it was all over in about an hour :shock: .
Good luck when you do have a litter.
Cayley
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Thank you to you all for your advice and recommendations. I am acting like an expectant mum already and Aimee is late in her season. This is probably due to me not having another bitch in the house anymore. Typical when you are waiting for this :lol:
Oh well, not to worry, it means I have got more time to read up on all the books i bought so i am prepared in advance for when it does happen.
I agree that the book of the bitch is a fantastic book, i have read it loads of times and have just lent it to Aimee's breeder as she has never read it :lol:
Oh well, I suppose I will have to stare at all the stuff I have bought for this litter a bit longer before I can get around to using it :wink:
Thanks again,
Sandie
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Hi everyone,
Searching for a bit of info that I keep forgetting to ask evertime I speak to people re: breeding, and that is, how do you become a registered breeder with the kennel club :?:
I do not intend to have regular litters but was just curious to how you go about it. :D
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You don't have to be a registered breeder as such...but do you have an Affix :?: This will allow you to register the puppies with the Kennel Club :) You may already have it...but if you haven't "The Book of the Bitch" by JM Evans and Kay White is a must :wink: I would suggest if you don't already have an Affix to get one as it takes quite a while to come through :wink: Another good idea is to become a member of a breed club...again I'm sure you already are :wink:
Can't think of anything else really :)
Gilly
PS...was nice to meet you at SKC :)
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There is no such thing as a registered breeder :wink: You don't even have to have an affix to register puppies with the Kennel Club - the KC will register pups without one and will even add their own affix if a breeder chooses not to name pups themselves (for a fee) However, you will be taken more seriously as a breeder if you do have an affix. Gilly is right that it's a good idea to join at least one of the Cocker Breed Clubs to demonstrate you are genuinely interested in the breed & willing to follow the Codes of Ethics which all Clubs have.
Jane
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Thanks for this info I am going to buy the book today, that will please my other half, cocker books seem to be taking over our book shelves, along with pictures, ornaments etc :lol: great though isn't it :P
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a follow on note, being a newbie on cockers on line I thought I might let you all know my affix , JAYZANDER, please come and say hi at the shows. Last year I did not do many champ shows, mostly open , but this year I am travelling much more.
Thanks again for the info on registered breeders, it was the one thing I always forget to ask my 'mentors'. :oops:
ps this forum is great I shall be using it much more. The things one can learn is great, and great to be in contact with other cocker lovers. :lol:
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i have just mated my chocolate cocker spaniel bitch,the stud dog owner gave me some clcium pwder to add to her meals,i just add half a tea spoon every day,i was also informed that there is no reason why you shouldnt give your dogs suppliments all year round to keep them healthy.i am almost certainly going to do this with my bitch from now on.
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Adding calcium to an already well-balanced diet is dangerous if you have an in-whelp bitch. Ask your vet or do a search on the internet - overloading a bitch's body with calcium can predispose her to developing eclampsia which believe me is not something you want your bitch to have & can be fatal if the symptoms are not caught in time! Supplements are not necessary if you feed a quality diet & some can do more harm than good - another vitamin which can cause problems if given in excess is Vitamin A (excess given to a bitch in whelp can cause cleft palates). Please don't rely on what you have been told - do some research first!
Jane
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Rosie my 5 year old had eclampsia with her first litter and Jane is right, it's something you DON'T want to come across. My vet also told me not to give calcium during pregnancy as it stops the dogs body producing it's own supply!
Eclampsia is the worse thing I have ever experienced, we almost lost our girl plus it cost us £1300 in vet fees over one weekend.
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All my dogs have cod liver oil, is this safe for in whelp bitches or does this contain Vit A :?:
Thanks for the advice re calcium, should calcium be added once there feeding or should milk provide enough for the bitch.
This reminds me of my own pregnanacy that you can read all the books in the world, but there is nothing like down to earth experience. Note of caution though, there are also alot of old fashion ideas around with some.
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All my dogs have cod liver oil, is this safe for in whelp bitches or does this contain Vit A :?:
Thanks for the advice re calcium, should calcium be added once there feeding or should milk provide enough for the bitch.
No I wouldn't give cod liver oil to a pregnant bitch - it does indeed contain Vitamin A. Some breeders do give a calcium supplement once puppies are born but I haven't found it necessary as long as you're feeding a high quality complete diet. I would avoid giving milk to a bitch that has had puppies unless you're sure she can tolerate it - bitches often have loose motions after giving birth & feeding milk to her can make the problem worse :wink:
Jane
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Thanks again for this , the cod liver oil lid is tightly on.
To change the subject this is for Jane S. is that picture you have under your name a bitch called Sunflower :?: if it is I have admired her from visiting my first ever show. I went to watch one in feb 03 to observe what happens when I was thinking of showing and I saw this most pretty bitch and spoke to the person with her who was very very helpful. I have since seen Sunflower do well after a short absence and think she is the most adorable orange I have ever seen. If it is yours I wish you continued success with her :lol:
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Thanks again for this , the cod liver oil lid is tightly on.
To change the subject this is for Jane S. is that picture you have under your name a bitch called Sunflower :?: if it is I have admired her from visiting my first ever show. I went to watch one in feb 03 to observe what happens when I was thinking of showing and I saw this most pretty bitch and spoke to the person with her who was very very helpful. I have since seen Sunflower do well after a short absence and think she is the most adorable orange I have ever seen. If it is yours I wish you continued success with her :lol:
Aww thanks :) Yes my avatar is indeed Ruby aka Sun Flower. We did have to stop showing her last year as she lost all her feathering but she's back now :) She is a pretty girl except when she's covered in mud like she is today as it's raining :lol:
Jane
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Aww thanks :) Yes my avatar is indeed Ruby aka Sun Flower. We did have to stop showing her last year as she lost all her feathering but she's back now :) She is a pretty girl except when she's covered in mud like she is today as it's raining :lol:
Jane
And Otis (http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/29/29_1_2.gif) still loves her, any which way (http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/11/11_5_10.gif)
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And Otis (http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/29/29_1_2.gif) still loves her, any which way (http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/11/11_5_10.gif)
Otis 8) is still the coolest dude in Ruby's eyes too :D
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otis is a little cutie as well :) ruby always looks good in her pics , bout time we saw some more of all the mods dogs in the gallery :) well it would be nice :lol:
I know exactly what you mean about mud and feathering yesterday in the rain I was looking at bells feathering yes it has to be white only on the back of her legs :roll: , and was wondering how you lot with orange roans get on with mud ...at this moment bellas white bit of feathering is light brown No matter how much washing it dosent get it out how do you get it out ?? Tumy seems to have been stained a orange colour too it must be the clay about the park .
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We have a baby bath that now lives on top of the freezer by the back door - a quick splash down with warm plain water works quicker for us than a rub down only - then off he trots to the living room to curl up to dry..
Don't mind the mud too much - its the freshly cut grass that plays havoc - but have said before that he should be an Orange Groan :roll: the mess he gets into :lol:
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Jessies white bits stay white for a week or two after a bath or a visit to the groomers but they are usually a dirty brown colour...from the clay soil in our garden and around here. We have just collected her (and saffi)from the groomers where they have bith been bathed and trimmed...they look lovely...until saffi finds the next pile of fox poo...and jessie paddles through a muddly puddle :twisted:
Jane
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it must be the clay about nottingham then jane . its everywhere , ill have to keep my eye out for a special shampoo or somthing :)
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hi again everyone,
a little note to let you all know that it looks like my little orange, Millie is not having puppies this time. I took her for a check up and my vet ( who I get on with well) took us through to have a sneaky scan so we could see the pups and there was nothing there. She has a nice liver, good size kidneys, a bladder, spleen - we saw the lot, but no babies :(
Obviously not meant to be this time. More time for me means more time to soak up even more knowledge and be even more prepared which of course can never be a bad thing.
The best news of all is that Millie had a good check over inside and out and she is wonderfully fit and should make a good brood bitch :D
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aww thats a shame never mind her time will come soon :) Im sure another chance will pop up at least you know shes in really good condition and it gives you more time to learn :D millies only young plenty of time left for cute lil pups left :)
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Sorry to hear your news Looby lou, I wish my girl had missed, instead she has aborted 10 pups over the past 2 days, I feel physically and emotionally drained. My girl is acting as though nothing has happened which I should be thankful for and that she is fit and healthy.
Good luck next time, I'm sure it will all work out.
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Sharon,
I am so sorry to hear your news. How far had your little girl gone before she started aborting her puppies? 10 puppies is a lot of babies. Hopefully she will have a smaller and successful litter next time.
My thoughts are with you, I just hope my little girl doesn't do the same.
Best wishes,
Sandie, Aimee and Wesley xx
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so sorry to hear your news sharon :( . That must be really awful to lose those babies, you must be gutted. It wasn't meant to be for both of us this time :cry:
take care