Cruciate Ligament - Old Springer Spaniel :(

[Hannahc7]

Hi all,
Our 12yo Springer Spaniel Toby has damaged his cruciate ligament and is in a bad way. The vet is going to open him up on Thursday and take a look and if it is what he thinks it is he will attach Nylon(?) to the ligament, then Toby will be in recovery for a while before he can go for walks again. I am just wondering if anyone has had this operation done on an older dog and how successful it is and how long it takes to heal, for them to be back on his feet? He is a very nervous dog and is going deaf and blind so would hate to put him through any unnecessary pain.
He is also very active still and lives for walks and balls.
Any advice at all would be really helpful.

Thank you,

Hannah xx

[redlottie]

Sorry no advice just wanted to say sorry to hear about Toby and wishing you all the best for his recovery

[8 Hairy Feet]

I might be wrong but I think
Vera (CoL name Lurchergirl)
has experience of cruciate
problems in an older dog...
If you put her user name into
the search box her posts should come up
and you may find some info on there.
steffxxx

[MacTavish Boys]

No advice here either, i am sure that someone will come along soon, in the meantime, sending positive thoughts to your poorly Toby
Stephanie, George and Hamish xxx

[Hannahc7]

Thanks so much guys, just don't know what to do I have heard with active dogs the repair can tear and I definitely wouldn't want to put him through multiple operations. Hopefully someone has some experience.

[LurcherGirl]

Yes, my then 9-year old lurcher had cruciate surgery and is great 2.5 years later now.    However, he had TPLO surgery, which means he doesn't have a cruciate at all now in that knee as the knee was reset at a different angle with a metal plate so the ligament is obsolete and therefore can't be ruptured again (though of course the cruciate in the other knee could... but luckily so far hasn't).

There are different types of cruciate surgery and I only really know much about TPLO as that's what my dog had. In some cases, just rest is enough to stabilise the knee again... though I am not expert enough to advise on this. It might however be worth chatting to your vet again about either a conservative approach (complete rest) or different types of surgeries on offer and/or you could get a second opinion.

Cruciate surgery is very invasive with a long recovery period and therapy (e.g. hydrotherapy). You need to work out together with your vet weighing up the pros and cons what is best for your dog's particular situation. Sorry I can't be of more help.

Here's a link that might be of some help: http://topdoghealth.com/rehabcenter/dog-rehab-frequently-asked-questions/

[Hannahc7]

Thanks for the reply LurcherGirl. That is really interesting. I will talk to the vet again. The bit I am worried about is the 6-8 weeks crate rest, which is going to be hard with such an active dog who is prone to depression. I think I will probably go ahead with it if it is what the vet suggests but not looking forward to the recovery .

[phoenix]

Good luck, as another springer owner, I know how they bounce and turn fast. Re depression I have been on a crusade,on  this forum, about the great results of B 12 on mine , for anxiety, depression, dry nose and lethargy amongst other things.
My sisters lab has had both legs cruciates  done, separately.  she tied him under the table, so he couldn't jump but didn't feel cut off from her . Time flew and he  was soon better.
You had betters to stock up on six weeks of bones to chew, hope the surgery goes well.

[Hannahc7]

Thanks Pheonix, that is really interesting to hear. I will definitely get onto the B12 as I think if he was a little less nervous he will cope a bit better with it all.

[merlin]

Hi I have an older springer he is now 13 just over about a year a go he had the same op as lurchergirls dog, because he was a large active springer they said the other kind of op with the nylon would be no good as it wouldn't last. Sadly under 12 months later the other side went, I didn't go back for another op as the first one changed him he aged suddenly, he still enjoys life but now he ambles everywhere, and I have to watch his other leg which did heal after enforced rest, Every dog is different and normally the op has very good results, good luck.

[praia]

My six year old boy is currently recovering from TPLO surgery.  The two different vets recommended this procedure based on his activity level.  He first tore the cruciate ligament two years ago and with conservative management made a great recovery.  Unfortunately, our extremely energetic young cocker t-boned that same knee during a rough and tumble play session and we ended up going through with the surgery.  We're glad we did as the vet discovered that the ligament was torn all the way through and the meniscus damaged.  Moderate arthritis had begun to set into the stifle joint as well.

If your dog is still quite active I would think the TPLO surgery would be the better option.  There's far less chance of that specific knee failing again, though once one knee gives out the chances of the other going increases.  Conservative management is always an option to consider.  Even after the cruciate ligament first tore, my boy still maintained an extremely active lifestyle though we had to change how he got the majority of his exercise - mostly swimming, sprinting only over sand or dirt, no fetch or chasing games over hard surfaces like pavement.  If it weren't for other environmental factors (an over exuberant young cocker playing too roughly) then he probably would have managed just fine without the TPLO procedure. 

My boy is nearly through the recommended 8 week confinement period. We had planned to go through hydrotherapy with him, but after the two week check up where he already had a full range of motion and a perfect gait the vets said it wasn't necessary.  For most dogs, that is not the case though.  The most difficult part of the procedure is keeping an active dog from doing what comes natural, but it is imperative that the bone is allowed to heal after such an invasive procedure.

[Hannahc7]

Thanks for the advice praia and merlin. It is really helpful to hear other peoples experiences. Also interesting to hear that you let it heal without surgery to start with. I think I will ask the Vet a few more questions about the options.
I am also just worried because he is so anxious whether it is just going to send him over the edge if we put him through a big op. In the last 6 months he has become deaf and that has made him really unhappy, he just wants to be on his own all the time and has his tail between his legs all the time (bar when on a walk!).  I think this is something I am going to have to sort out along with the leg if we are going to have a happy dog again.

[LurcherGirl]

We had planned to go through hydrotherapy with him, but after the two week check up where he already had a full range of motion and a perfect gait the vets said it wasn't necessary.

I'd be a little cautious with that advice as I reckon your vet is only half right  . Yes, hydrotherapy does increase the range of motion, but it also builds strength in the affected leg. Being on restricted exercise for so long means that muscle mass is lost very quickly. Hydrotherapy will help and speed up the build up of the muscle again and the dog should only go back to unrestricted levels of exercise once the strength in the operated leg is back to normal (that is assessed by measuring the circumference of the thigh muscle). If that isn't the case yet, then chances of rupturing the other cruciate is much higher as it will take more weight and impact.

Personally I would always do hydrotherapy after a cruciate surgery to rebuild that leg and therefore minimise the chance of the other cruciate rupturing, regardless of how good the range of movement is!

(I speak from experience, my lurcher is one of the few dogs that hasn't had the second cruciate ruptured and three years later is still totally sound on it - and that despite the fact that we know that it was already damaged when the first one was operated on, it just wasn't as bad yet as the first one. We did hydrotherapy until both thigh muscles were the exact same size again and only then was he allowed to go back to completely unrestricted exercise).

[LurcherGirl]

I am also just worried because he is so anxious whether it is just going to send him over the edge if we put him through a big op. In the last 6 months he has become deaf and that has made him really unhappy, he just wants to be on his own all the time and has his tail between his legs all the time (bar when on a walk!).  I think this is something I am going to have to sort out along with the leg if we are going to have a happy dog again.

I'm wondering whether he is partly unhappy because of the painful cruciate and not just because of being blind? My lurcher was very unhappy and much less active for a few months before the diagnosis. Once he had surgery he was like a totally different dog as the pain was all gone. His face changed so much from an old unhappy dog to a youngster again - even my friends noticed it immediately.

In Dylan's case, he was also diagnosed as hypothyroid a few months before the surgery (and the hypothyroidism is probably what weakened his cruciates and facilitated them becoming damaged), once on medication for that, he was considerably happier too.   But the surgery made such a huge difference to him, it was quite amazing - and he hasn't looked back since.  

[Hannahc7]

Thanks LurcherGirl. That's really encouraging. I think we will definitely try the Hydrotherapy. Yes and it may be the Ligament that has made him so unhappy although it does seem to have started quite a while back. It will be worth seeing what he is like after the op before sending him off to a doggy shrink