I may lose Archie.- UPDATE - Trainer been, there is hope!!

[Geordietyke]

I have hesitated to post anything on here recently, perhaps naively hoping it would get better but Archie has bitten my eldest daughter twice in the past 2 months    She is 11 so not a toddler.  The first time was completely unprovoked, we were both in the kitchen talking, I left to go in the living room to get something and within 2 seconds heard him lunge and her scream.  He'd bitten her on the bottom as she turned to the sink.  As you can imagine, the pain she had sitting down at school for the next week was excruciating 

He bit her again this past Friday, we were all standing round chatting (family were visiting) and she went down to stroke him as he lay chilled next to us.  I didn't even have time to react - he crinkled his nose and immediately attacked - no warning growl etc given that I could observe.  A huge bite/teeth weals and bruise on her upper thigh - fortunately she'd pulled away in time otherwise he'd have got her face. 

He has always been very noise reactive, but his behaviour has got worse in the past two months, this has included him growling/ snapping and going for my husband, if he leaves his chair (not even going anywhere near the dog), screaming/strangling noises and barking wildly at a friend's dog, whom previously he'd barely acknowledged and the other day, he spotted a couple a long way off down the street, he tracked them, standing stiffly and again that screaming/strangling behaviour - he has never reacted to people in this way before. 

His circling behaviour, which he's always done when excited, has escalated to include high pitched barking and screaming every time the phone rings/door sounds/anyone goes out of a door.

Worryingly too, whenever my daughters (aged 10 and 11) go upstairs (always in a calm manner), he'll race up before them and position himself at the top of the stairs barking/growling and if they react, lunging to make contact.

There is just so many issues, which I am so concerned about, especially for the safety of my children (and their friends visiting) that I don't see many options available.  I have spoken to a behaviourist (APBC and APDT registered with 30+ years experience) who said straight off that she would not be able to stop him attacking, she may be able to calm and improve things but not cure him.  I have made an appointment at the vets for a check over, although he shows no signs of any ill health whatsoever.

My husband doesn't seem to view all this very seriously, he blamed me for not letting him off lead (his recall is awful so I'm not prepared to let him off to run riot), and not giving him run of the downstairs  (as many of you know, it has taken me till Archie was 15 months old to stop him toileting in the house, he'd do this if I let him wander from room to room).

I can't believe I may lose another cocker after poor Odie, all my life I've wanted a dog.... 

Does anyone know what the vet may do, I don't want them to order a barrage of tests for no reason.  Thanks, Lesley

[Pearly]

I'm so very sorry to read your post.  Will send you a PM with some info x

[Geordietyke]

Thank you x

[8 Hairy Feet]

Sending you a great big hug chicken

[Geordietyke]

Thank you 

[julie1]

Hugs for you 
But I'm going to sound awful       I wouldn't give him a third chance, your daughters are much more precious than a dog (much as I love them).   Sorry but I wouldn't hesitate it could be your daughters face next or something worse.
Many years ago I had to do this......the vet tried to say I shouldn't, but I had three young children.

[Geordietyke]

I have to admit, when it happened the second time, I just wanted him out of the house and gone.  Hubby seems to think it can be managed/cured but at what cost.....

[Pearly]

I've sent you a rather long PM, but typed from the phone at work so apologies if predictive text has taken over or if it's a bit blunt - not meant to be but it's a little busy here, sorry x

[Geordietyke]

I've got your pm - thanks!  No, it wasn't blunt at all, I've sent you a reply 

[Mudmagnets]

Lesley I am so sorry to be reading this, I know how long you have struggled with Archie, in all manner of ways, but I would have to admit you have to know how much is too much of a risk, for yourself and your family, and biting/intimidating family members, (or anyone else for that matter) for me, would I think sway against.

Do you think a rescue may help - they could maybe work with Archie initially, to see if anything can be done. Think there are a couple of spaniel savvy rescues which may help.

I do hope you will be able to find a solution, and send you  You can pm me if you want to chat, I will always answer 

[Geordietyke]

Thanks Irene, I know you are always there for me    I'm not sure about spaniel rescues, not sure if they would rehome a cocker, especially one I can give so much information about.  If anyone on here knows more about this, please let me know.

It is really, really hard and so upsetting seeing your children being badly hurt.  I love Archie and he can be so sweet at times but I have to balance that with all the other issues he has, I'd be devastated if he hurt someone else and I'd done nothing about it prior to it happening 

[Pearly]

Thanks Irene, I know you are always there for me    I'm not sure about spaniel rescues, not sure if they would rehome a cocker, especially one I can give so much information about.  If anyone on here knows more about this, please let me know.

It is really, really hard and so upsetting seeing your children being badly hurt.  I love Archie and he can be so sweet at times but I have to balance that with all the other issues he has, I'd be devastated if he hurt someone else and I'd done nothing about it prior to it happening 

Wise words - have a chat to John at CAESSR, see what he suggests

Xx

[Mudmagnets]

It is really, really hard and so upsetting seeing your children being badly hurt.  I love Archie and he can be so sweet at times but I have to balance that with all the other issues he has, I'd be devastated if he hurt someone else and I'd done nothing about it prior to it happening

And these days, more than ever, you have to consider the legal & financial implications of your dog frightening or worse, attacking anyone (hard to think of our little bundles as dangerous dogs, but I am afraid that may be the case, should the worst happen - let's hope it doesn't)

[Helen]

I think you should INSIST on a full thyroid panel being done before deciding anything about Archie. 

This is one of a number of articles on hypothyroidism - he must get all the panels done and sent to the states.

http://www.rileysplace.org/health-safety/thyroid-aggression/

[Geordietyke]

The thing is, he sounds and looks really scary to me when he does this screaming/barking/twirling and lunging behaviour so goodness knows how it looks to others 

Will see what vet says and then I can contact John at CAESSR for a chat.  Thank you guys 

ETA - I've looked at the link Helen - surely I can't be so unlucky twice in a row with a cocker....  It does state:

The first sign is hair loss, usually on your dog’s trunk, back of the rear legs, and tail. His coat will be dull and thin, his skin flaky, but not itchy or red (which is usually tied to fleas or an allergic reaction). He may also have black patches of skin. This is followed by weight gain, muscle loss, sluggishness, a slowed heart rate, toenail and ear infections, and intolerance to cold. It’s not widespread, but hypothyroidism is also linked to seizures, heart and blood vessel problems, and infertility.

Archie has not shown any of these symptoms, in fact, I have a hard time keeping the weight on him, even though he is neutered but I will mention it tomorrow at the vets.