on lead

[ips]

Interesting reading here - also note what is said re slip leads which tighten up around the ears, as mentioned by the YouTube guy.
http://www.apdt.co.uk/about-apdt/apdt-policy-on-half-check-collars

Very interesting indeed.....thanks for the link  👍

[bizzylizzy]

Been searching for inspiration and this I think is very good.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xP-E02rKR6c

, -
Sorry, but this chap doesn't really impress me, he's putting pressure on the dog to conform rather than teaching the dog anything. Watch the dog's body language - he doesn't look as if he's exactly enjoying himself, but then why would he be with someone pulling a lead on his throat? He does have a few good points, attempting to keep the lead as loose as possible being one, constantly changing direction is another, - although I found his reasoning a bit illogical, - surely the point is to teach the dog to pay attention to you not to disorientate  him.
He's trying to offer a quick fix with this type of lead and I just don't believe there is one, - the dog needs to learn its to his advantage to walk nicely (positive reinforcement) , not do it out of fear of being yanked by the throat . It is a long job with our little cockers, - I'll the first to admit I didn't envisage it being this long winded but they're not natural heel walkers and  my experience so far tells me the only way we're ever going to get there is going to be with  patience and practice, practice, practice. Not easy, - I do lose my rag occasionally like many of us, I'm just human  but I've learned that putting pressure on Humphrey gets me nowhere.  And, going back to my point yesterday about learning in a quieter environment,  imagine trying to learn to drive on the M1, sure it can be done but if you've mastered the basics somewhere quieter, its going to be easier to cope with the rest surely?

[ips]

Um, will have to watch it again as I don't recall him giving any jerks or using any aversive. I liked his method of never putting pressure on the lead , this is what I try to do. The thing he does differently is the placement of the lead high on the neck and the stopper quite tight, I do opposite I have stopped loose and attempt to make it seem as close to possible as having no lead around her neck.
Trouble is few of the techniques on youtube or anywhere else are cocker specific.
I would still love to see a vid of a cocker at true heel with slack lead and a trainer able to outline the method used to attain it.

[Blueberry]

When I watched the video  I also thought the dog didn't look happy - look at her tail.  Also, when he 'rewards' her with praise (and no treat!) he doesn't sound very effusive, in fact he barely changes his tone of voice at all - how is the dog supposed to know she's being rewarded?
Also noticed in the comments section below the video, he seems to be saying keep the dog on your left so she knows you're the alpha male ...
Meanwhile, Blue has been a bit better this morning, maybe because I relaxed a bit.  A couple of times he started walking nicely without being asked, and I was able to reward him quickly enough for him to make the link.

[Londongirl]

The words coming out of his mouth and his actions with the dog are at odds with each other. He says sensible things - all of the loose-leash walking training I like says the handler should avoid tightening the lead as much as possible.  I'm teaching Henry what to do if HE tightens the lead. If I tighten it, it's confusing and makes it harder from him to succeed. But that man keeps pulling the dog back to him to correct its position. He also says 'heel' as he pulls. If the dog has never learned a heel position, he's probably just taught her that 'heel' means 'man pulls on my neck when I'm in front of him'.

And what's with the obsession with not rewarding with treats? Is it is macho thing? He says give praise but barely does, and 'corrects' by pulling the dog.

[bizzylizzy]

When I watched the video  I also thought the dog didn't look happy - look at her tail.  Also, when he 'rewards' her with praise (and no treat!) he doesn't sound very effusive, in fact he barely changes his tone of voice at all - how is the dog supposed to know she's being rewarded?
Also noticed in the comments section below the video, he seems to be saying keep the dog on your left so she knows you're the alpha male ...
Meanwhile, Blue has been a bit better this morning, maybe because I relaxed a bit.  A couple of times he started walking nicely without being asked, and I was able to reward him quickly enough for him to make the link.

I honestly believe being relaxed yourself makes a huge difference!! We've just joined a local dog club and take part in the Sunday morning "group", which is less formal than any of the proper classes I've been to so far. (I'd sworn I wouldn't go to any more) OH watches on the side and has remarked how much more relaxed I am and, amazingly, so is Humphrey and he's cooperating much better. I used to get SO uptight and stressed when he wouldn't do what I wanted.
By the sounds of things, that trainer you went to see has resulted in some good successes and now your confidence is growing you're more relaxed. I really wish it hadn't taken me nearly two years to learn to be more laid back about it all but, better late than never!! We'll get there yet! 

[ips]

I will watch it again, I must have missed parts of it.
In my defence I am full of man flu and self medicating with scotch may have effected my viewpoint 😁
As you know I don't advocate aversive training so a bit disappointed in myself if I got this wrong.

[bizzylizzy]

I will watch it again, I must have missed parts of it.
In my defence I am full of man flu and self medicating with scotch may have effected my viewpoint 😁
As you know I don't advocate aversive training so a bit disappointed in myself if I got this wrong.

Have to say I did wonder as you'd previously said you preferred harness to collar for that very reason!! We'll let you off this time, - hope you're feeling better soon!!   

[ips]

Well, early on he gives a few tugs to demonstrate what a lot if not most of us do. Then when the slip lead is on he corrects the dog a couple of times just to educate it. After that all seems pretty good to me. As for lack of praise, I am not sure if it is not a case of less is more as in he doesn't want to over use the praise or increase the dogs excitement or if its just that he is talking to the camera .
I don't personally see anything in that vid to critique and the force (if you could even call it that) is very minimal particularly considering its a big powerful breed. The dog doesn't look fully comfortable BUT its not his dog so its probably a bit stressed anyway.
We will have to agree to disagree on this one.

Thanks BL but I still feel rough 😞

Ps
Yes your right I do prefer the idea of a harness and still trying to find something I am happy with but lead training has been with a slip. I don't like things round her neck she rarely even wears a collar BUT slips are the easiest and quickest option when we are working until such time that I re-invent the wheel. 😁

[ips]

Edit

Moved to separate topic

[ips]

Usual route this evening with wide ish collar instead of slip, she was very good in fact I would say better than on a slip which I have suspected before but wasn't convinced. Go figure. 😉

[ips]

Update
Eze in season so been using the harness so I can put flexi lead on in those areas she would usually be off lead. Anyway this is were we are up too. Not totally reliable yet and needs proofing in many different areas but we are going the right way.


https://vimeo.com/216134510

[bizzylizzy]

That's lovely!! Well done Eze!!!   
That looks like a nice light lead you've got there, I have a notion that that also helps    Would she walk like that in all situations now? Humphrey CAN walk like that but the trouble is, its not consistant, I still have problems focusing his attention on me quite a lot of the time and its usually just in those places where I really NEED it. Still, its encouraging that we're heading in the right direction!! Well done!

[ips]

Thanks BL Yes its a light rope lead and quite a narrow light harness I am convinced she is better on anything but a slip. Maybe there is an association now with slip lead and pulling I don't know for sure.
Well as you can see she knows were I want her but no it isn't reliable in all areas and situations but a hundred times better than a few months ago. I intend to proof it before Oct but if she still doesn't pull when were on a shoot I will be very surprised.
Aren't walks enjoyable on those occasions the dog walks nice 😁

Thanks for the support and encouragement I know that you and many others understand how frustrating it is to try and train loose lead 👍

[Londongirl]

That's a lovely bit of walking. Is that the harness you cobbled together yourself?

I've been teaching Henry to stop when I stop. This morning we did some sit-stays and down-stays in the park with lots of other dogs barrelling around and he did really well. I then practiced some off-lead heel work. Problem was, he stopped and sat beautifully when I stopped but I was half way across the field when I realised he's put himself in a stay as well and hadn't set off again with me. Cue addition of release cue...