on lead

[Londongirl]

That's her usual serious look 😁
LG I can assure you that she was quite happy 100% comfortable with it. It is much better than a slip (Imo) as it does not constrict. It is no tighter than a normal collar and the benefit is that unlike a normal collar when the dog is at heel this type is totally slack (like a slip)
You have read enough of my posts to know that if she was in anyway unhappy I would have removed it within seconds. Oh and unlike a collar this is not left on it is used exactly like a slip.
Just to clarify I still consider a harness to be the most comfortable for the dog and still intend to use one but for very short walks this set up is easier. The only reason I left it on all the time today was because she was walking so well with it.
Regards

Sorry, I absolutely did not mean to suggest she wasn't happy, I just found her expression quite comical.

[ips]

My apologies LG I miss read your post 😞

I did think it odd considering how well you know me by now from my posts. I would never ever intentionally do anything that she wasn't comfortable with.

Again my apologies.

[Londongirl]

No worries!

[ips]

Update as were now deeply involved in loose lead stuff again.

We haven't done much propper lead walking for a week or so but we braved the terrible weather just now to do a two mile round trip to the shop. It was generally ok however she seems to be getting in front again (not pulling just not at heel) so a few physical repositions were required at various stages of the walk. Its not a concern as I accepted a while ago that loose lead would require maintenance from time to time just like other aspects of training / working. The repositioning proved itself again but for full disclosure we had a good ten of them. I would rather have to reposition every quarter of a mile than be dragged for the duration and I do not as yet consider the loose lead "fully" reliable or that it ever will be without maintenance. I suspect anyone knuckling down to it when dog is still young will have better results than I as our madam had a very much engrained behaviour by the time we started a propper regime.

[Londongirl]

Can I ask exactly how you reposition her? I stop and wait for Henry to come back to heel. How do you reposition her without yourself walking into the heel position, making moving her redundant? Can you reach forwards and lift her?! Not an option for me and 16kg of monster cocker.

[ips]

Can I ask exactly how you reposition her? I stop and wait for Henry to come back to heel. How do you reposition her without yourself walking into the heel position, making moving her redundant? Can you reach forwards and lift her?! Not an option for me and 16kg of monster cocker.

When she gets to the end of the lead (usually a gradual creep so I don't notice, she thinks 😁) I stop take a stride with one leg, physically lift her maybe 6" step back and place her gently at heel which is were she should have been, I then give her head a stroke as I pull her body to touch my leg, tell her good girl because I want heel position to be a nice loving place to be. Stand up and after a second or so walk on. Sometimes she never needs this and walks perfectly other times she may need one as a reminder other times like today she needs several but she eventually gets the message. Today with hindsight was an odd day due to weather she hadn't been out of the house since 8am comfort break and walk was 3-30 ish so she was eager to have a run. That is fine because it was lead training with a level of excitement so it was productive for proofing 👍

[ips]

Ps
LG eze is around 12kg so I can see how it may be difficult for some to do the same as I if there pooch is much bigger than that.

The reason I do it this way is because every time I have tried the stop when they pull she just hops (literally) back to heel and starts puling again. The actual physical aspect of lifting her I think conveys to her that I have total power over the situation and power to enforce (not in an aversive way per seh) were she is or rather meant to be. As opposed to I stop you hop we walk you pull ...and so the cycle continues further reinforcing the learned pulling behaviour. Of course its fare to point out that due to my failings eze had a deeply engrained history of pulling so the stop method may indeed work for a younger dog given time and consistency.

I think that whatever method you use if succeeding will require constant maintenance instead of us assuming that one day loose lead is trained and that's job done.

PPS
I have found that if you accept the dog to start positioning itself in front a bit then in front a bit becomes in front a bit more and very soon dog has reached the end of the lead and that's only a bit away from pulling . I now only accept "true" heel if not I reposition.

[TheAdventuresofBarnaby]

PPS
I have found that if you accept the dog to start positioning itself in front a bit then in front a bit becomes in front a bit more and very soon dog has reached the end of the lead and that's only a bit away from pulling . I now only accept "true" heel if not I reposition.

Good Observation Ian.  This rings very true.  Currently I'm happy for Barnaby to be ahead of me but on a slack lead.  Its exactly the nature of them creeping ever further forward that is the issue.  Eventually they are far enough forward to reach the end of their rope which to a cockers limit number of brain cells simply equates to the need to pull harder.

[ips]

Exactly john
I thought I would live with slightly in front, Mrs ips was over the moon at this new dog she had on the end of a lead BUT an inch here and an inch there and your on a slippery slope 👍

[Londongirl]

an inch here and an inch there and your on a slippery slope 👍

Ive found this to be true with absolutely everything I have trained.

[ips]

very short clip of this afternoon.

https://youtu.be/QUkuARo-7sc

[bizzylizzy]

That's lovely, she looks so relaxed. Can I just ask how long she would walk like that ? Humphrey can do it but I get the impression with him that the concentration still requires an enormous effort and it tires him out. Would you say this is Eze's normal /natural pace when on the lead now or is she still having to conciously "make an effort" Don't know if that question makes sense? 🤔

[ips]

Makes sense totally
 Most days this is a true depiction and she could walk that good all day. Other days it may start that way but only last 1/4 mile before I need to do the reposition job. It really depends if she knows were we are going, there are certain walks that she knows there is an off lead bit so on approach to that path or field she will start to get excited and get to the end of the lead BUT she hasn't pulled as such for months now. Sometimes she is relaxed into that pace sometimes you can tell she is really really trying which is good in a sense that she is showing self control.  its very close to reliable but I suspect it will always require maintenance from time to time.

I know how frustrating it is so thought I would do a vid of were we are now. The vid was edited at the beginning when I put lead on as you could not see anything from the camera so ten seconds is missing, the end bit is cut as I turned camera off. It was a spur of the moment vid hopefully to encourage folk who may be lead training. Its easy to give up and think its a cocker trait and eze was as bad as it gets believe me so if I can do it then anyone can.  👍

[bizzylizzy]

Thank you, yes it IS encouraging to see that it truly can be done. I have noticed that Humphrey is a lot harder to control in certain very familiar places and I am concluding now that this is a learned behaviour. (We cross the road at the same point each day, he sits and then HAS to scratch himself behind the ear, every single day without fail!! )
I'm maybe kidding myself a bit but I also think being an uncastrated young male also makes his life a bit harder, his nose just gets in the way (!) but I don't consider it a big enough problem to justify him being "done" 
Still, if all our dogs were perfect and easy we wouldn't have a need for this lovely forum would we?
On a separate note, - having made a hole in an old football, we've been playing with a rugby ball  this evening. After a few dribbles across the lawn, he managed to pick it up by the narrow and and carry it!! Wonder if I could teach him a touchdown? 

[ips]

Strange about the habitual ear scratch, I wonder what that means 😖

Is it a similar behaviour to when they shake (cant remember what its called) to come down a level??