on lead

[Pearly]

You describe mine perfectly.

And the answer was a WYDWL harness.

On a collar my wife cannot hold him. She is tiny and has a back problem.
But she does just fine with a WYDWL.

Just the other day I accidentally clipped on to normal head collar.  Almost at once I wondered why my dog was pulling. It's like some kind of switch was flipped.

I think this is the perfect example why harnesses don't work - the dog doesn't learn anything wearing a harness, it just makes it easier for the handler  . If that's anyone wants for their dog it's fine, of course  . I need my dog to walk to heel, or "close" on lead and off lead in areas with distraction.......

Perseverance, time and consistency like all training is the key.  I was at a working test on Sunday, not one dog was on a harness and all walked to heel beautifully.  Some of the handlers that were there are professional dog trainers so have lots of time to invest in their dogs training unlike most of us who work and juggle training - it can be done, it just takes longer!

Figure of eights do work but only when your dog understands the command "heel".  If you let your dog off the lead, recall and then tell it to heel, does it come back and drop into position? If the answer is yes, you are ready to start with more heel work on the lead.  If the answer is no - it's back to basics again on whichever part let you down.

Don't forget that your dogs hearing changes at 10 months old so just when you think all the commands are in place it's likely the word or the tone of your voice has changed to your dog......it's also the age that they start to develop more personality/confidence.  It's that bit of cockers that I love most but also despair of at times!

[ips]

Like you, I have tried every method known to man plus a couple of magic harnesses too. Nothing worked apart from the Halti head collar but Millie hated that so I decided not to use it.
What changed things for me was sticking to one method and not giving up and trying different things.
The method that has worked wonders for me is the treat method. A pocket full of chopped up cocktail sausages to be exact. And a slip lead inst3ad of a harness or collar. She is a 100% better than a month ago, still not perfect by any means, but I no longer come in from a walk and head straight to the fridge for a beer.
My advice is to find a method and stick to it, even at times when it doesn't seem to be working.

I think you have hit the proverbial on the head. Frustration and impatience made me keep swapping about between methods. Maybe I should have another go but it drives me mad. I will have to try and sort it one way or the other.
Thanks

[bmthmark]

I have tried literally everything but he still pulls like a train. I currently attend training classes and there are 3 cockers in the class. All of them have the same pulling issues.
The trainer spoke to me yesterday and even she has given up. She recommended a harness which I did buy and it did help but I can tell that he hates it and he stopped sniffing, stopped searching etc. Which I felt was totally unfair and taking away what a cocker loves to do. So I went back to a normal lead.

I am hoping that as he gets older he will calm down a bit and I will continue to stop when he pulls too hard and keep reminding him to heal.
I think I am coming to terms with the fact he is always going to pull.

Mine is fine off lead as well, its funny because in my class we do lead walking and the trainer can see the pulling. Then we do off lead walking and he is perfect 
Its like the lead is telling him to pull as hard as possible 

[ips]

I have tried literally everything but he still pulls like a train. I currently attend training classes and there are 3 cockers in the class. All of them have the same pulling issues.
The trainer spoke to me yesterday and even she has given up. She recommended a harness which I did buy and it did help but I can tell that he hates it and he stopped sniffing, stopped searching etc. Which I felt was totally unfair and taking away what a cocker loves to do. So I went back to a normal lead.

I am hoping that as he gets older he will calm down a bit and I will continue to stop when he pulls too hard and keep reminding him to heal.
I think I am coming to terms with the fact he is always going to pull.

Mine is fine off lead as well, its funny because in my class we do lead walking and the trainer can see the pulling. Then we do off lead walking and he is perfect 
Its like the lead is telling him to pull as hard as possible 

This good off lead bad on leaf seems to be a theme. Not just me then that considers that a lead or harness triggers some kind of reaction. I am convinced the dog feels safe on a lead and switches itself off as far as concentration is concerned then its scent instinct kicks in, my girl does not sniff the ground or follow an airborne scent when off lead but she does when restrained. That's my take on it.
Ps
I could open a shop with the amount of leads and harnesses' we have in a cupboard.

[Emilyoliver]

My adult (4yo) worker is appalling on lead and it's totally my fault.  I never follow through with enforcing heelwork on lead because I find training it really boring for one, and I'm usually in too much of a hurry to bother.  I also have 2 other dogs which makes it more challenging/requires more effort.  So we just argue over it, and invariably I just twist the slip lead into a figure of 8.  Once winter comes around I tell myself I'm going to focus on heelwork during the dark evenings when we do more pavement walking, but I've managed to avoid doing that by just getting my dogs flashing collars and walking in the fields in the dark with a torch  .  Funny, though, my puppy naturally walks to heel and I put that down to him being less confident.  So who knows, he may actually turn out ok on lead (despite my rubbish training lol).

[AlanT]

I cracked the "walk at heel" problem quite quickly.  The key I think was using a hand signal coupled with a frequent heel command.

The key thing is that the dog must not sneak past you.  I held my arms out and finger pointed with the dog behind.  Early on I used the walking stick for a while, just held out to block his path.

Any attempt to pass received a sharp "ah-ah".  I don't use this much for anything else.

I used, unusually, NO-REWARDS.  Any reward, even a "good-boy" was seen as permission to pass. You rewarded me so I've done it.

Any break-outs were handled by immediate "back-on-lead".

At first my arms were out all he time.  Now it just comes up in response to a sneak attempt or I sense some danger maybe.

Make no mistake this dog is just bursting to run-ahead but will go a long way on a country track just dogging along behind.

This is very useful in areas that are safe but that I don't know well.  Prevents the dog wandering onto a road I didn't know about.

It is I think because of this that the WYDWL works so well for us. Probably won't work on a "raring-to-go" pup.

[bizzylizzy]

Interesting about the No Rewards - I've noticed this with Humphrey, he either takes it as a release signal or it breaks his concentration, don't quite know which, but I've stopped rewarding now until I finally release him and then he gets a mega treat!

I'm now trying to train a  "walk behind" - mainly because I'm worried that one day he's going to pull me down the steps - but that'll be a story for another day! 

[Londongirl]

I don't really like a 'walk behind' because Henry does a lot of his 'leisure' walking on the lead and I'm happy to let him walk along side or slightly in front as he enjoys following his nose, not me! It's only when he actually pulls that I stop and wait for him to self-correct. On busy roads I keep a shorter leash so he's nearer me and has no chance of darting into the road. As an aside, I saw someone walking ahead of their dog the other day - the dog was on an extendable lead and the lead was so long the dog was walking right out on the road and the owner had no idea! Not suggesting that any COLer would do such a daft thing, of course!

Bizzylizzy - we have steps out from the house to the garden and I often take Henry out on the lead when he needs a wee but not to then go careering off chasing the birds / squirrels / shadows. I have a foot injury at the moment which makes steps difficult so I've taken the opportunity to teach Henry not to pull me down the stairs. He has learned very quickly, possibly because he's often bursting for a wee, so the sooner he complies the sooner he gets to go! We do a sit-stay-release in stages so I go down a few steps first then he follows, until we get all the way down.

[AlanT]

I didn't make it clear, I'm afraid.

It's only off-lead that I have walking behind.  This is because I use this so we can go off-lead on forest-tracks where there is the possibility of the odd vehicle.  I don't want him off ahead and maybe unseen by an dangerous driver.  Behind and eager to pass means I can grab the collar if anything turns up.

On lead we go with him a bit in front but in a relaxed kind of way.

Beware though that in the woods, the dog can stop suddenly and you stumble forward.  It's easy to the hit the tail with your leg.  This is I think the origin of the docking-practice.  Would be quite easy to break it I feel. 

Mainly in woods we are off lead of course. But sometimes we have "deer-restrictions in place.

[JeffD]

I once trained a lab who was known to pull his owner over to walk perfectly at heel in 10 minutes, other dogs have taken longer some will never ever do it well, it really does depend on the dog and how important it is to you.

Spaniels from working strains are generally difficult because they are led by the nose, Teals lead work is pretty bad but she is rarely on a lead for more than 3 or 4 minutes she doesn't pull hard but the lead is normally straight and not loose and she is often up on her back legs to get a better view and sniff.

On lead heel walking was not important to me where as off lead walking and hunting close was so that is where all my effort went, to be honest she is not a walk to heel type of dog and I doubt that no matter how much time I had spent training she would never have made a loose lead walker.

I think it is to easy to teach a puppy to pull by putting on a collar and lead when they are to young to understand what you want, I would use a harness on a young pup then switch to a lead and collar that they have not learned to pull on when I think the dog is old enough to take in the lesson.

[ips]

I didn't make it clear, I'm afraid.

It's only off-lead that I have walking behind.  This is because I use this so we can go off-lead on forest-tracks where there is the possibility of the odd vehicle.  I don't want him off ahead and maybe unseen by an dangerous driver.  Behind and eager to pass means I can grab the collar if anything turns up.

On lead we go with him a bit in front but in a relaxed kind of way.

Beware though that in the woods, the dog can stop suddenly and you stumble forward.  It's easy to the hit the tail with your leg.  This is I think the origin of the docking-practice.  Would be quite easy to break it I feel. 

Mainly in woods we are off lead of course. But sometimes we have "deer-restrictions in place.

I actually differ on this I prefer her slightly in front rather than a tight heel or behind. That way I can keep an eye on her in my peripheral vision.

[ips]

I once trained a lab who was known to pull his owner over to walk perfectly at heel in 10 minutes, other dogs have taken longer some will never ever do it well, it really does depend on the dog and how important it is to you.

Spaniels from working strains are generally difficult because they are led by the nose, Teals lead work is pretty bad but she is rarely on a lead for more than 3 or 4 minutes she doesn't pull hard but the lead is normally straight and not loose and she is often up on her back legs to get a better view and sniff.

On lead heel walking was not important to me where as off lead walking and hunting close was so that is where all my effort went, to be honest she is not a walk to heel type of dog and I doubt that no matter how much time I had spent training she would never have made a loose lead walker.

I think it is to easy to teach a puppy to pull by putting on a collar and lead when they are to young to understand what you want, I would use a harness on a young pup then switch to a lead and collar that they have not learned to pull on when I think the dog is old enough to take in the lesson.

Same here Jeff. I have all but given up with lead training in favour of a good reliable off lead heal. Still hoping that murphys law harness will work for the rare occasions we are in a town.

[bizzylizzy]

I hadn't intended using behind as a way if walking but just think it could be useful in certain situations where you might want to put yourself between your dog and something else in an emergency , in a confined area for example....

[Pearly]

Training Coral this evening and mostly had her on lead walking at heel, it occurred to me that it's really easy to get the lead in the wrong position on a dog and thought I would share the information I learned at class:

Assuming the dog is on your left hand side, the lead should be vertical from the dog, holding the handle loop in your right hand and leading/guiding the dog with your left hand - the lead across the front of your body.

The loop of the lead should be high under the ears which allows the lead to be vertical.  Ideally a slip lead.

The dog won't pull as it's uncomfortable to do so, instead they will walk with a slack lead (well, most of the time......we are talking cockers here  )

[AlanT]

I really must choose my words more carefully on here.

I dont really care if my dog is right behind me, has his nose, head or rump beside my leg.

All I do is stick out my arm and if the end of his tail disappears out in front then I call him back and stick him on the lead.

He caught on really quickly and is reliable enough to cross a quiet road doing this.

And he does not pull on a WYWDL. This is enough for me.

I don't care which side he walks except on busy roads where he is away from the traffic and I hold the lead any old way that takes my fancy.

We dog quietly around on roads and I hardly know he's on lead.

When he scents the forest, Golf-course, farmers-field, then he goes for it and keeps a range of a 100 yards or so.
Does the odd bog-off but recalls with a few shouts.

I don't go for machine perfection,  just coping safely is fine for me.

He passes horses, piles of poo, other dogs, chickens, ducks, cattle, probably Sheep but I take no chances here and he takes virtually no notice.  He does not eat or roll in nasties. 

Really he's only got one thing one his mind.
Finding the places we do ball-working and showing me how clever he is at it.

He was trained by three different people and we all do it a bit differently.  He stays half time with me and half-time with my son and family. They tell me that after a few days with me he enjoys a good rest.It's a dogs-life really.

Fantastic animals these Cockers,  so intelligent and quick to learn but with loads of opinion.
And what a sight when the low-sun hits the gold coat and it lights up like fire.