Author Topic: on lead  (Read 8362 times)

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Offline JeffD

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Re: on lead
« Reply #165 on: July 03, 2017, 01:27:52 PM »
I think the treats treatment is more liable for dogs that do not hunt, put Teal on a lead and throw treats onto the ground and she will step over them to get where she can hunt. Possibly if you use this method before the dog learns to hunt you may have more success.
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Offline ips

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Re: on lead
« Reply #166 on: July 03, 2017, 01:47:08 PM »
Hi Jeff
Eze would take the treat then start pulling / hunting again 😁
Muddling along in the hope that one day it all makes sense.

Offline Murphys Law

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Re: on lead
« Reply #167 on: July 03, 2017, 08:35:04 PM »
Hi Jeff
Eze would take the treat then start pulling / hunting again 😁

That's what happened with Millie. I could walk 200 yards with her glued to my side if I had a treat in my hand. Give her the treat and away she would go. Also I didn't like the fact she was constantly looking at me when I would rather she were sniffing and exploring in normal spaniel style.

Offline ips

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Re: on lead
« Reply #168 on: July 03, 2017, 08:50:04 PM »
Yes I agree which is why when I do lead walks I let her have a sniff none of this dragging em forward (not saying any of the ones on here do that of course) thing for me with training with treats (and I did try it early on whilst muddling along) is that it feels like bribery in my mind. I would rather mould the behaviour into a sort of fun game in her eyes in reality she is learning how to work for me / us but doesn't know it 😁  I am not against treats as such but found it counter productive "for me"
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Offline Londongirl

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Re: on lead
« Reply #169 on: July 03, 2017, 10:02:39 PM »
Yes I agree which is why when I do lead walks I let her have a sniff none of this dragging em forward (not saying any of the ones on here do that of course) thing for me with training with treats (and I did try it early on whilst muddling along) is that it feels like bribery in my mind. I would rather mould the behaviour into a sort of fun game in her eyes in reality she is learning how to work for me / us but doesn't know it 😁  I am not against treats as such but found it counter productive "for me"

I know what you mean about it feeling like bribery, but if you look at it as 'payment' that's different.

I've read some very convincing articles about how food affects a dog's brain in a different way from humans so we can't think about its effects in human terms. It's so closely connected with positivity and pleasure in their brains, that you are making a deep psychological connection between the desired behaviour and positive feeling by adding food at the right moment.

However, if it doesn't work for your dog... 🤷‍♀️
Rachael (me) and Henry (him)


Offline ips

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Re: on lead
« Reply #170 on: July 04, 2017, 01:38:35 AM »
Hi LG
I think it depends on the dog (as you allude to) with eze, and I suspect murphys law its not that she is not motivated by food, she loves biscuits or chicken bits or whatever BUT its as though she accepts the treat as a given right. Maybe its how you approach early training and effectively train the dog to associate food being a reward as opposed to food being, well, food. In other words it's a failing on my part but on the plus side I have THE BALL to fall back on. The only thing that trumps a ball is game but only when working as strangely a ball will trump game if we were to bump into game on the lane or in the field, context I suppose. Strange things cockers aren't they 😁
Muddling along in the hope that one day it all makes sense.

Offline bizzylizzy

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Re: on lead
« Reply #171 on: July 04, 2017, 07:05:37 AM »
Hi LG
I think it depends on the dog (as you allude to) with eze, and I suspect murphys law its not that she is not motivated by food, she loves biscuits or chicken bits or whatever BUT its as though she accepts the treat as a given right. Maybe its how you approach early training and effectively train the dog to associate food being a reward as opposed to food being, well, food. In other words it's a failing on my part but on the plus side I have THE BALL to fall back on. The only thing that trumps a ball is game but only when working as strangely a ball will trump game if we were to bump into game on the lane or in the field, context I suppose. Strange things cockers aren't they 😁

I don't think its a failing on your part Ian, there's no right and wrong way, there are lots of ways of training positively,  food and treats are just one. A whole change in attitude towards training, backed, again, by the food industry  has us all buying and using treats probably a lot more often than years ago. All my trainers have advised  "lots of really tasty treats". To be honest, I also think its a matter of convenience, especially in a less rural environment where training has to be done on the street. Giving food and treats is how most of  show love, thanks or reward or to "entice" (the lady loves milk tray ;)). It really is a matter of personal choice, the dog and what you're trying to train, howeved I do agree that it can be easy to fall into the trap of it turning into bribery, I admit I've done this myself on occasions. At the end of the day, its what works for you and the proof of the pudding is in the eating, if you're getting the result you want, then that's the right method and you seem to be doing ok with your little lady!  :D

Offline ips

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Re: on lead
« Reply #172 on: July 04, 2017, 07:12:42 AM »
Morning Jayne
Thanks, yes there certainly seems to be many methods and techniques and "some" camps are very set in there ways. I would and have tried all sorts of things for all sorts of end results and to be honest I probably adapted as things progressed. I certainly used edible reward early on as at that time I did not know about things like capturing and shaping and rewarding with things like hunting and the very fact that the retrieve is in "some" dogs certainly WCS a reward in itself.
Muddling along in the hope that one day it all makes sense.

Offline Gazrob

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Re: on lead
« Reply #173 on: July 21, 2017, 09:25:10 PM »
My Marley walks to heel with the lead on. He occasionally goes a little ahead of me. What I did was whenever he pulled I would  check him with the lead and stop walking for a few seconds everytime he pulled. It took a couple of months. You must not give up. The key is consistency don't show any weakness.

Offline Gazrob

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Re: on lead
« Reply #174 on: July 21, 2017, 09:26:49 PM »
Oh I forgot keep the lead quite short too so he doesn't have the option of going anywhere.

Offline bizzylizzy

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Re: on lead
« Reply #175 on: July 22, 2017, 07:05:23 AM »
My Marley walks to heel with the lead on. He occasionally goes a little ahead of me. What I did was whenever he pulled I would  check him with the lead and stop walking for a few seconds everytime he pulled. It took a couple of months. You must not give up. The key is consistency don't show any weakness.

Hi! What do you mean by "check with the lead"?

Offline Gazrob

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Re: on lead
« Reply #176 on: July 22, 2017, 08:37:33 AM »
I just tug on the lead slightly. Sometimes I will stop walking or walk in the the opposite direction. The best method I've found is just stop walking and he will hop back into heel. This took a month or so.

Offline ips

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Re: on lead
« Reply #177 on: July 22, 2017, 10:12:28 AM »
I just tug on the lead slightly. Sometimes I will stop walking or walk in the the opposite direction. The best method I've found is just stop walking and he will hop back into heel. This took a month or so.

Out of interest is it proofed or does it need constant maintenance as in constant lead pops. ??

If I stop my girl also hops back to heal but will then start pulling again so this method does not work for me.

Ps
Once again I have found myself in hols in different area and she is pulling again, strangely last time we were away about six weeks ago she was really good, go figure  ??
Muddling along in the hope that one day it all makes sense.

Offline bizzylizzy

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Re: on lead
« Reply #178 on: July 22, 2017, 11:07:16 AM »
I just tug on the lead slightly. Sometimes I will stop walking or walk in the the opposite direction. The best method I've found is just stop walking and he will hop back into heel. This took a month or so.

Out of interest is it proofed or does it need constant maintenance as in constant lead pops. ??

If I stop my girl also hops back to heal but will then start pulling again so this method does not work for me.

Ps
Once again I have found myself in hols in different area and she is pulling again, strangely last time we were away about six weeks ago she was really good, go figure  ??

That's exactly the same with Humphrey, there are stretches of our walk where, in the past, we've trained heel without lead and he just walks to heel automatically there now and so I do think its a habit/learned behaviour thing. I imagine that the only solution is constant training in different places with different levels of distraction but that requires a lot more determination. I admit to tending to avoid training in crowded areas and most of our walks are in the countryside so I suppose I really shouldn't be surprised that we haven't perfected the loose lead in all situations!  ;)

Offline Gazrob

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Re: on lead
« Reply #179 on: July 22, 2017, 11:21:47 AM »
He does sometimes get a bit ahead of me if his whole body gets in front or if I feel any tension on the lead I stop walking and he jumps back to heel. His head is nearly always in front but he's next to me so i do not mind it's not crufts. Don't give him too much lead just enough so it's not tight. Keep him on the left. Have your arm down by your side. Do this constantly whenever he's on lead. He's now 18 months. I got him at 7 months old. I would say it took a good couple of months. He did pull me a lot to start with it was killing me but I had to crack it. I live in a place where I must walk him on lead at times. I would tug him back not hard and say heel. Eventually he got the message that if he pulled il tug him and we go nowhere. He doesnt pull now. Be persistent don't give in. Try walking in inside circles or figure 8s everyday whenever you are out walking. It's hard work but it will be worth it I've now got a young dog who doesn't pull me.