on lead

[Blueberry]

It's certainly very helpful for me.  The trainer told me to be 'firm' with Blue, and lead pops were advocated when concentration was lost, but I can see that firmness could easily turn into grumpiness if the desired behaviour is not forthcoming.  I'm going to try the stop and wait, followed by gentle repositioning.  Thank you!

[ips]

I am pleased its helpful. Believe me I have tried EVERYTHING incl lead pops and nothing worked. The lead pops make no difference whatsoever (on my bitch anyway) in fact I am now of the opinion that its counter productive (for us) you can yank her back al day long with either little pops or full on aversive pops and she would still pull your arm off. I don't know if she associates lead pops with heel being a bad place to be and effectively being strong willed by "I am not doing what you want just because your a grumpy old git and keep yanking my neck" but that is how I see it.
Lots of off lead heel with every good thing being given at heel including verbal praise even if you have to physically position her is my new theory. I treat her, release her, give her the ball all at heel including anything else I can think of.
If you try any of the above I would be very interested in your progress and I will continue to update my own progress or any further tweeks to the method that I may make for anyone remotely interested.

Ps
I use a slip lead but have it set very very loose and I always have the full lead out 👍

[bizzylizzy]

Sorry to be completely dense    - what do you mean by "lead pops" please?

[Blueberry]

BizzyLizzy, a 'lead pop' is a quick tug on the lead, meant to bring the dog's focus back to you.

[ips]

A yank on the lead 😉

[bizzylizzy]

Oh right - OK, thanks,  - that's the way I always did it with my previous dogs    but I thought it was frowned upon these days? I got reprimanded  by my last trainer for doing it  Presumably you'd only do it when the dog's wearing harness, not a collar?

[Londongirl]

Oh right - OK, thanks,  - that's the way I always did it with my previous dogs    but I thought it was frowned upon these days? I got reprimanded  by my last trainer for doing it  Presumably you'd only do it when the dog's wearing harness, not a collar?

I think it's like the 'flick' method that's still taught with collar and lead rather than harness. Had no effect whatsoever on Henry, and I find adversives put me in a negative state of mind, which I don't enjoy.

[bizzylizzy]

Oh right - OK, thanks,  - that's the way I always did it with my previous dogs    but I thought it was frowned upon these days? I got reprimanded  by my last trainer for doing it  Presumably you'd only do it when the dog's wearing harness, not a collar?

I think it's like the 'flick' method that's still taught with collar and lead rather than harness. Had no effect whatsoever on Henry, and I find adversives put me in a negative state of mind, which I don't enjoy.

Yes, I know exactly what you mean! ...

[ips]

BL
Yep no effect at all on eze, the only effect was making me feel guilty for doing it to her. I am a big softie though 😁
Thing is a little tug doesn't work so the force used escalates.

[bizzylizzy]

BL
Yep no effect at all on eze, the only effect was making me feel guilty for doing it to her. I am a big softie though 😁
Thing is a little tug doesn't work so the force used escalates.

Can't be good for the neck either I wouldn't imagine. 

[ips]

Update
Circular route tonight, she was very good yet again. I had to stop and reposition her three times all within fifty yards ish of the off lead section. I am definitely seeing daily improvement no doubt about it. I shall now toast my ongoing improvement with a wee scotch 😁

Ps
The wife's cousin who lives three propertys away has a five month beadle which is proving hard work so I had a rummage and found three different types of anti pull contraptions for him to try (none worked for us) 😞

[ips]

BL
Yep no effect at all on eze, the only effect was making me feel guilty for doing it to her. I am a big softie though 😁
Thing is a little tug doesn't work so the force used escalates.

Can't be good for the neck either I wouldn't imagine. 

Exactly 😢

[ips]

Upped the temptation today by going on a different route to the recent short circular. This one is in opposite direction and a route she is very familiar with, it is part country lane but mostly off lead on a bridleway and across fields. She always pulls like a train on this route so this will be a real proofing exercise.

Top of our lane turn left instead of right, light bulb goes on she knows were we are going and immediately gets to end of lead. I stopped before it became a pull and calmly did the ritual of positioning her against my left leg and giving her head a stroke. Said heel and walked on. I had to do this maybe six times in half a mile and i see that as a vast improvement. She got to the end of the lead but at no point did she actually dig in and pull in fact you can see she is trying by the way she walks with the breaks on.

Off lead section she flushed a pheasant and a brace of partridge and stopped to flush on both occasions. 😊

Back on road on lead and another high temptation of walking past my field which she walks to off lead usually. We walked past the gate and got home with no pulling 😁
To say i am pleased would be a massive understatement, although not perfect yet and she isn't always at a "true" heel but a little in front it is 100 times better than even a week ago. How i wish i had used this method two years ago.

Slight tweek to method. Instead of lifting her back i now guide her back gently with my hand. During the walk it occurred to me that if your trying to tell the dog you don't want tension on the lead then why do so by giving a lead pop !! I don't personally think it is enough to just stop when the pulling starts i think you need to read any forward movement and stop before the pulling even starts i also think that repositioning the dog to heel and the stroking really tells the dog exactly what you want.

I am not saying i have developed anything new as i am sure others have done same or similar but i can say one thing it is working fabulously for us 😁

[Londongirl]

Have to agree with all your observations there. I give Henry a quick 'oi' before he gets to the end of the lead and 99% of the time he comes back to heel.

You've done brilliantly in a really short space of time. Thinking it over, can you isolate what you've done differently that has made such a big difference in such a short period of time? It might be what you've STOPPED doing that is significant as well as what you ARE doing. Miss eze certainly is a smart girl.

[ips]

Thanks LG
I will try but to be absolutely brutally honest I have tried that many "methods" it all got very confusing 😞
Generally I was using repeated lead pops out of frustration because I had already failed with stopping, going the other way and various so called anti pull harness. I got to the point a couple of months ago to give up any notion of her ever being good on a lead so started to do more off lead heel training even walking up the quiet country lane to the various countryside walks we have. She was very easy to train in this scenario because she was a little anxious about the odd car that came past but she knows to sit on the grass verge until it has passed. So I think the off lead heel work has had the biggest effect, she now knows were heel is so there is no excuse for none compliance on or off the lead.

Having had some issues last season beating on a much bigger shoot than she is used too I realised that I absolutely must get the lead sorted so I threw the book away so to speak and decided that heel was heel until I released her (yes obvious I know) and that instead of a constant war of attrition with her I would use absolutely no force and just explain calmly to her were I would like her to be.

Not sure if that answers the question or even if I know the answer but that's the story 👍