on lead

[Blueberry]

The trainer I recently saw with Blue told me to avoid harnesses altogether if I want heel walking.
So we are currently using a normal collar & lead.  (She also said no 'bungee' type leads, but I've had to go back to mine, I just couldn't keep a tight enough grip on the type she recommended).
The Ruffwear Front Range harness is very sturdy, and has a solid back clip, and a smaller reinforced fabric loop on the chest.
http://www.ruffwear.co.uk/dog-gear/harnesses/front-range
To be honest, I could open a flipping shop with all the harnesses, leads and collars I bought for Blue, only to end up back on a bog standard collar & lead!

[ips]

Ha, yes we are the same got all sorts but only the wydwl one seemed to work however its hard to say for sure because at the time of trying it I was already well into serious heel training. I will say this though, even though I am supposed to be a ruffty tufftie working gundog bloke I actually prefer harness.
I don't like leads because I don't like restraint plus I don't need one often. I look on it a bit like the safety harness I put on my daughter when she was a toddler. I didn't like restraining her but it was necessary at times for safety.  During these occasions I didn't put anything around her neck  !!!!!

I reckon someone should re-invent the whole lead harness thing and come up with one that would be seen as "rough and tough and workman like" so more gundog folk would use them. I certainly would and I am on a quest for easy to put on and off, gold, brown or green in colour. Small front fastening ring or better still why not have the lead bit as part of it. The wydwl is a product that is very nearly there and with a few minor improvement I would use one even on a shoot day despite the stick I would probably get 😁

[ips]

Update
Although loose lead continued to improve on my walks from home it obviously is no were near proofed because this weekend whilst away in the caravan she reverted back to her old ways presumably due to the excitement of new areas to explore with new scent etc. We had to use a harness and extendable lead for the two mile walk along the river as I did not want her getting into the fast flowing river sections and or chasing ducks / ducklings.
Is there anything in life more frustrating than loose lead training ?
It seems to be an ongoing unwinnable battle and a battle I am getting very tired of. I dislike the fact that it gets me so frustrated with her and at times I can understand how easy it would be to use aversive methods however I do not think even that would have any long term effect.
Rant over 😭

[Blueberry]

I feel your pain completely.  I have pretty much given up on the holy grail of the loose lead, and feel pathetically grateful that Blue will now (usually) sit and wait at the kerb when asked to, rather than drag me into the oncoming traffic.
*sigh*

[Londongirl]

Update
Although loose lead continued to improve on my walks from home it obviously is no were near proofed because this weekend whilst away in the caravan she reverted back to her old ways presumably due to the excitement of new areas to explore with new scent etc. We had to use a harness and extendable lead for the two mile walk along the river as I did not want her getting into the fast flowing river sections and or chasing ducks / ducklings.
Is there anything in life more frustrating than loose lead training ?
It seems to be an ongoing unwinnable battle and a battle I am getting very tired of. I dislike the fact that it gets me so frustrated with her and at times I can understand how easy it would be to use aversive methods however I do not think even that would have any long term effect.
Rant over 😭

I think you had too much success too quickly. You got a nice loose lead really quickly in what I assume are fairly regular sitatuions near home. As I'm sure you know, every time you add a significant new variable to proofing a behaviour, you have to decrease the difficulty in other respects to ensure proofing. Which is really annoying when you just want to enjoy a nice walk on a weekend away. But to your dog, this is an entirely new situation and nothing in her doggy brain would have made her think loose lead walking was required, unless you let her know and reinforced it like billy-o.

When we go somewhere new, I expect the first 10-15 minutes on lead to be terrible. I stop and wait for a self-correction every single time Henry pulls ahead. I bring super nice treat and the clicker and reinforce A LOT for nice walking.

It's boring. And frustrating. But it works (eventually).

[ips]

Update
Although loose lead continued to improve on my walks from home it obviously is no were near proofed because this weekend whilst away in the caravan she reverted back to her old ways presumably due to the excitement of new areas to explore with new scent etc. We had to use a harness and extendable lead for the two mile walk along the river as I did not want her getting into the fast flowing river sections and or chasing ducks / ducklings.
Is there anything in life more frustrating than loose lead training ?
It seems to be an ongoing unwinnable battle and a battle I am getting very tired of. I dislike the fact that it gets me so frustrated with her and at times I can understand how easy it would be to use aversive methods however I do not think even that would have any long term effect.
Rant over 😭

I think you had too much success too quickly. You got a nice loose lead really quickly in what I assume are fairly regular sitatuions near home. As I'm sure you know, every time you add a significant new variable to proofing a behaviour, you have to decrease the difficulty in other respects to ensure proofing. Which is really annoying when you just want to enjoy a nice walk on a weekend away. But to your dog, this is an entirely new situation and nothing in her doggy brain would have made her think loose lead walking was required, unless you let her know and reinforced it like billy-o.

When we go somewhere new, I expect the first 10-15 minutes on lead to be terrible. I stop and wait for a self-correction every single time Henry pulls ahead. I bring super nice treat and the clicker and reinforce A LOT for nice walking.

It's boring. And frustrating. But it works (eventually).

Your spot on LG.
Trouble is sometimes you just want to have a nice walk without the training aspect. Its even more difficult when there are two of you as the one not holding the lead also has to keep stopping. You may recall that i did consider introducing the clicker, maybe I should consider it again. ??

Proofing, it would seem is the bit many of us slip up on. I was telling Simon (mooremadness) only yesterday how I steadied on dummies but then discovered I had to start all over again on pheasant then too my surprise having steadied her to pheasant the keeper puts his partridge down and again eze had to be persuaded that she had to be steady to partridge as well as pheasant and dummies. Then came furry things in the shape of hare.

So your absolutely correct she did not know (presumably) that loose lead was a requirement in any area not just locally to home. Funny thing is she was reasonably good around town on Saturday when we went to Ilkley, go figure 😵

[Londongirl]

I think this is why many of us find loose-lead training so difficult to see through all the potential proofing. It impacts directly on situations where you just want to walk your dog, not look and feel like a fool stopping every other second and waiting for your dog to work out what its doing wrong. Other behaviours you can chose to shelve on days you don't want to train. But lead walking is part of our daily lives with our dogs, and proofing it can feel at odds with just having a normal life!

[ips]

I think this is why many of us find loose-lead training so difficult to see through all the potential proofing. It impacts directly on situations where you just want to walk your dog, not look and feel like a fool stopping every other second and waiting for your dog to work out what its doing wrong. Other behaviours you can chose to shelve on days you don't want to train. But lead walking is part of our daily lives with our dogs, and proofing it can feel at odds with just having a normal life!

Exactly

[ips]

Tried the wydwl again tonight (this was a walk not lead training) she definitely does not pull "as much" on this but I do not believe its a quick fix if you want a proper heel which I do. The thing I notice though is that the front part does end up tight on her neck. Is this normal or have I not got it tight enough.
Ps
I think I need to go back a step and start lead training sessions and re positioning which was proven to work however this weekends "walks" seem to have un done all my good work...grrr

[bizzylizzy]

Just wondered if you've tried doing a stint of lead training which isn't actually part of a walk but is purely "training"? I've been doing this recently with  Humphrey and am finding its starting to have some effect, he still pulls when we first leave the house and he's excited but after a few minutes I'm finding that he's responding better to the heel command.
I've found a field thats more or less unfrequented, so there are very few smells and distractions. I let him let  off a bit of steam for a bit and then we do ten or so minutes of solid heel walking on lead, I continually change direction about every 15 or 20 paces so he has to keep an eye on me and I also change speed from a walk, to jog or very very slow and he should sit as soon as I stop. Its really just classic basic training school stuff but I'm finding it much easier to be consistant on a field, on our own when its just him and me concentrating on the job in hand than trying to keep myself motivated while trying to just have a carefree walk!
I'm hoping if I can eventually get this perfect without distraction then maybe it'll all start and fall into place in "real life"   

[ips]

Just wondered if you've tried doing a stint of lead training which isn't actually part of a walk but is purely "training"? I've been doing this recently with  Humphrey and am finding its starting to have some effect, he still pulls when we first leave the house and he's excited but after a few minutes I'm finding that he's responding better to the heel command.
I've found a field thats more or less unfrequented, so there are very few smells and distractions. I let him let  off a bit of steam for a bit and then we do ten or so minutes of solid heel walking on lead, I continually change direction about every 15 or 20 paces so he has to keep an eye on me and I also change speed from a walk, to jog or very very slow and he should sit as soon as I stop. Its really just classic basic training school stuff but I'm finding it much easier to be consistant on a field, on our own when its just him and me concentrating on the job in hand than trying to keep myself motivated while trying to just have a carefree walk!
I'm hoping if I can eventually get this perfect without distraction then maybe it'll all start and fall into place in "real life"   

Yes done that BUT is it not a case of even if it works you end up still having to proof it on a "normal" walk ?

[ips]

Been searching for inspiration and this I think is very good.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xP-E02rKR6c

[Blueberry]

I saw someone this morning that we haven't seen for a while, they have a Cockapoo that Blue sometimes walks with.
They recently sought help from a dog trainer (not the one I saw), and has got them using a Martingale collar for heel work, which they saw works a treat (and he was walking nicely to heel this morning).

[ips]

There a type of half choke collar if it's the ones I am thinking about, never tried one on eze but a friend has one on his German shepherd but she still pulls but that is no surprise as he does zero training with her.

[Blueberry]

Interesting reading here - also note what is said re slip leads which tighten up around the ears, as mentioned by the YouTube guy.
http://www.apdt.co.uk/about-apdt/apdt-policy-on-half-check-collars