Author Topic: High Kidney Levels  (Read 2020 times)

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Offline Karma

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High Kidney Levels
« on: March 23, 2017, 08:28:19 PM »


<sneaks back into the forum like I've never been away....>

Honey had her health MOT recently.

Apparently her blood test showed that her "kidney levels" were a little high.  They want to check again in a few weeks.
I've now, also, managed to get the urine sample to the vets, so that may well show something...

Any experiences on what this might actually mean (the vet nurse called in the middle of me making dinner with Amelia (youngest child with additional needs) in full hyperactive mood, so I wasn't really in a position to process exactly what they were saying!!!!
Remembering Honey. Aug 2007-July 2020

Offline Mari

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Re: High Kidney Levels
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2017, 11:38:21 AM »
I don't have experience with high kidney levels, but my girl had high liver levels on her last blood tests. Not very high, but higher than they should be ideally. The vet explained that when they get older sometimes this happens, and as long as they don't show symptoms it is just about monitoring the levels regularly. So it turned out to not be as scary as I thought. Hopefully it's the same for you, something passing or something manageable. You could probably call them up and ask to have it explained again if you are left with questions, most clinics will have time set aside for phonecalls to clients :) I brought a short list of question for the follow-up blood test so I wouldn't forget to ask, they were amused, but not annoyed at my preparation  ;) Hope you get better values next time!

Offline Sumava Cockers

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Re: High Kidney Levels
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2017, 12:17:18 PM »
How old is Honey?

Kidney reading of "high"  doesn't really tell us anything.

Kidney failure is an issue for older dogs,  and it appears Cockers in particular.   LOSS of 50% kidney function is the definition of kidney failue over here in Czech.

What you've been told could have serious implications.  If I were you, I'd call the vet and ask him to explain again in a way that I can understand... and I'd keep asking questions until I did!

But most of all I hope that its just a small issue that can be easily treated.

J




Sarka, Jon and Barnaby B

Offline phoenix

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Re: High Kidney Levels
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2017, 01:25:01 PM »
Hello Karma,  I'm back too, after losing Bobby two years ago with protein losing nephropathy, which means blocked filtering in part of the kidneys.  It was picked up when I took him In for bad breath thinking he had tooth trouble. His levels were high. He had Fortikor and a special boring diet, but I was told dialysis was the only way, and it wasn't available.  I'm still devastated, he was eight. Some dogs live a long life with other kidney problems,  and their BUN numbers improve well.   But the usual vet reply is that they can't predict the the progress.       There is a Yahoo Kidney group, which I joined, but it was complicated to get on, and very American, so not much use with converting it  to metric.  Sumava has recently posted recipes for home made  kidney diets, which are brilliant.  I think Nutriment do a decent wet  food too.
See if the vet can be more specific,   But mine said the only way was to do a biopsy, which isn't nice, and wouldn't change the recommended treatment anyway.   Keep catching the wee wee for testing! I hope the numbers go down .
RIP Marti  the EPI springer age 12,  and beloved black cocker Bobby, 8 yrs old, too soon, from PLN.
Now owned by TInker, tiny hairy grey poodle/terrier rescue from Greece and Jack, local rescue,   scruffy ginger terrier mutt.

Offline Karma

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Re: High Kidney Levels
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2017, 02:47:22 PM »


Well, the vet called with the urine results.
Apparently losing protein in the urine, with no sign of UTI.
Advised to start a special kidney diet.  I said I'd do my own research rather than pick up their prescription diet, as we raw feed.
She didn't give any numbers (may go in and ask for a print out), but wants to see if diet will bring level down.  She did say it was the Urea that was high in the blood.

Honey will be 9 in August.

Remembering Honey. Aug 2007-July 2020

Offline Karma

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Re: High Kidney Levels
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2017, 04:24:44 PM »

From what they have said and reading around, I suspect Honey has Protein Losing Nephropathy.
Advised low protein/low sodium diet for a month, then retest and if levels haven't reduced look at medication.
That seems to be the text book vetinary response for PLN.

So it would appear we *do* need to reduce protein.
I guess easiest way is going to be via treat - she currently has dehydrated duck strips, fish and meaty bites etc for most of her treats.  So swapping those out for a vegetable based treat should dramatically reduce her protein intake without upsetting the actual raw feeding we do.
She doesn't actually eat a lot (1 chicken wing and 3 nature menu nuggets a day or 1/3 lamb heart and 3 nature menu nuggets or 5-6 chicken hearts and 3 nature menu nuggets). She gets the veggie nuggets to bulk out so she's not starving.
I guess swapping to one of the nature menu options with rice in will help, while keeping a good nutritional balance.
She's a very fussy dog (until she's bin raiding!) so I don't want to mess too much - but obviously don't want her diet to do her harm!
Remembering Honey. Aug 2007-July 2020

Offline Sumava Cockers

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Re: High Kidney Levels
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2017, 04:37:56 PM »
Hi Karma,

This is an older dog ailment.  Sounds like you're getting on top of it now.

Its probably a good idea to prepare for some liquid accidents in the house as they have a problem controlling water intake and output when afflicted with this. (of course).

We were prescribed a special Hills granulated product for Betty.  It was an expensive waste of time as the old girl would starve to death rather than touch it.

Your research is putting you on the right track for best feeding practice.   Our old girl was diagnosed when she was 14 years old.  Once we'd got her diet sorted she continued living an active life to the ripe old age of 16 1/2.... and in the end it was a lung infection that was her undoing,  not her kidneys.

Wishing you both all the best.



 

Sarka, Jon and Barnaby B

Offline Karma

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Re: High Kidney Levels
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2017, 05:19:39 PM »

Thank you.

Just done a quick check of protein levels in all the foods she regularly has.
With a few little tweaks we should be able to bring it down to a similar level to the hills renal diet wet food, so the vet should be able to see that we are reducing protein even though we aren't taking up the prescription diet. :)


Remembering Honey. Aug 2007-July 2020

Offline Countrygirl

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Re: High Kidney Levels
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2017, 07:31:59 PM »
I am sorry I don't have any advice, but just wanted to say that I really hope the change to Honey's food helps.

Offline Mudmagnets

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Re: High Kidney Levels
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2017, 11:11:44 PM »
Hi Karma, I don't have any experience of Honey's ailment, but just wanted to wish her well.

Remembering Smudge 23/11/2006 - 3/8/2013, and Branston 30/8/14 - 28/10/22 both now at the Bridge.

Offline bizzylizzy

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Re: High Kidney Levels
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2017, 06:56:22 AM »
Hi, can't offer any advice either but I think you're very sensible getting to grips with the diet yourself.
Just wanted to wish you all the best and hope that Honey's condition improves with the new regime!

Offline elaine.e

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Re: High Kidney Levels
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2017, 10:48:41 AM »
Here's a link to an article about how blood readings from raw fed dogs may differ from those of kibble fed dogs and may not necessarily mean that the raw fed dog has a health problem. Don't know if it will help or not, but I think it's worth a look, just in case.

http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/normal-blood-values-and-raw-fed-dogs/

Offline Karma

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Re: High Kidney Levels
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2017, 11:29:09 AM »
That's a really interesting article, Elaine, thank you. Certainly something to consider. The changes we are making to diet are actually minimal having looked closely at her intake. The main thing being stopping the dried duck fillets, which isn't a bad idea anyway.  Will certainly look closely at the actual blood results before considering medication, though.


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Remembering Honey. Aug 2007-July 2020

Offline Mari

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Re: High Kidney Levels
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2017, 11:42:52 AM »
Interesting article. But one of the main concerns with raw feeding from a vet point of view is how the high protein content food will put extra stress on the kidney and liver. The worry is that we do not know enough about the potential long term effects of having these organs work harder than normal. Proving that raw fed dogs have higher values doesn't take away from the fact that this may actually be harmful in the long run. And I'm always sceptical about the "feed them what they were built to eat" argument. Dogs have been eating whatever they can get their paws on of human leftovers since domestication. Even wolves will eat the stomach content of herbivores, berries, roots etc. Canines are not strictly carnivorous and should not have as high protein level in their food as strict carnivores like felines. Not saying I'm against raw feeding, but there is a lot of information about it online that is onesided.


Offline Karma

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Re: High Kidney Levels
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2017, 12:12:02 PM »

The Hill's R/D wet food is, I think, 15% protein.
Her chicken wing is 17%, but the nature's menu nuggets are 14% (for the meat ones - I suspect there are some varieties with lower protein content than the one in our freezer currently, and we'll change to those once we've finished this bag) and 9% for the veg ones (she gets 3 of each, as she's prone to being tubby so we bulk out her food with the veggie ones!).  She normally gets a chicken wing in the morning and the nuggets in the afternoon.
We have been feeding heart a couple of times a week, which is much higher in protein, so we will reduce this and possibly give her tripe instead (13% protein I think) saving heart for a very rare treat (and gently cooking it which, apparently, reduces the protein levels...)
If, when I see the results, there's just a slight rise in BUN and no increase in creatinine (sp?) then we might allow a very slightly higher protein meal every now and again, but I'd rather err on the side of caution (while not abandoning the raw diet as she's done brilliantly on it).
Likewise we are not stopping her bedtime biscuit (25% protein) as this is the only thing that stopped her being sick overnight - and she needs a good quality biscuit as cheaper ones caused her to dig holes in her skin.  But other treats through the day will be replaced with fresh pepper or carrot, or dehydrated sweet potato etc. 

I obviously very much respect the vetinary opinion that we need to reduce protein (though, of course, the other suggestion is limit sodium which is very low already in a raw food diet, so that's got to be good), but know our vets don't know too much about the raw feeding and always like to do my own research.  In doing that, I will read vetinary articles suggesting prescription diet is the only way to go alongside raw feeding articles suggesting that whole prey model is the only good way to feed and there's no need to reduce protein in kidney issues, and I will try and find the middle ground that reduces the strain on her kidneys while keeping the benefits of her raw food. :)   (We are constantly being told how good her teeth are, for example!)

I had noticed she was drinking a lot more, so that does fit with her kidney's causing some problems - though she's not really urinating any more at the minute... so hopefully we're fairly early on in any problems. :)

Though if anyone can work out a way to tell her she shouldn't sneak through the baby gate on the stairs when the children are going through it to raid the cat's food, I'd be very grateful!!!!  >:D
Remembering Honey. Aug 2007-July 2020