Author Topic: High Kidney Levels  (Read 2035 times)

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Offline Mari

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Re: High Kidney Levels
« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2017, 12:28:16 PM »
Sounds like you will find the right balance. Good idea to use the vet diets as a reference when adjusting your own. No, I would not expect a vet to know the best way to put together a raw food diet. It takes a lot of research to be able to cover all nutritional needs as well as adjusting for different conditions. A vet wouldn't have time to do that, nor would they prioritize it when there are trustworthy diets on the market allready :) Unfortunately vets sometimes see dogs come in to clinics suffering from malnutrition after unbalanced home made diets, another reason for their scepticism to raw feeding. Not everyone has enough knowledge to make sure that even micronutritional needs are covered and not given in excess. Your dog is lucky to have a dedicated owner willing to do the research!

Maybe put the cat food on a high and narrow shelf? Somewhere the cats can jump up but the dog can't :)

Offline elaine.e

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Re: High Kidney Levels
« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2017, 01:20:30 PM »
The accepted way to compare the protein levels of dog foods is by dry weight analysis, which looks at the protein in the dry element of the food. This link explains and gives examples https://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/choosing-dog-food/dry-matter-basis/

On the face of it, wet foods (raw, and also processed cans and trays) appear to have lower levels of protein when you look at the labels. The labels also show around 70% moisture in wet foods, and around 10% moisture in kibbles. When you do a dry weight analysis the protein levels appear to change dramatically. The wet foods will have a much higher % of protein in their dry matter than kibbles.

But that doesn't take account of the amount of the food actually fed to the dog. Dogs fed kibble are typically fed less (in weight) than dogs fed a wet food. When you compare the actual weight of food you have to ignore the dry weight analysis and go back to looking at the labels. Then you often find that the difference in the actual weight of protein fed to kibble fed dogs and that fed to wet food fed dogs is minimal.

As an example:

I used to feed James Wellbeloved kibble to William. Looking at the JWB guidelines and from memory, I think he used to have 200g per day. Dry Weight analysis works out at 20% protein. The product information states as packaged it contains 22% protein. So William was eating 44g protein per day (200g x 22% = 44).

William has been raw fed for about 7 years and has 300g per day. A typical food is Natural Instinct Natural Chicken. Dry Weight Analysis works out at 42.8% protein. The product information states as packaged it contains 14.1% protein, so William is eating 42.3g protein per day (300g x 14.1% = 42.3).

It will of course vary from food to food. But just using Dry Weight Analysis to compare foods doesn't give an accurate comparison. You have to look at the weight of food actually fed.

I hope that's clearer than mud :005:


Offline Karma

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Re: High Kidney Levels
« Reply #17 on: March 25, 2017, 03:45:28 PM »

Yes - that's why I used the wet food from Hills rather than the kibble - I figured it would give the best comparison without having to do silly amounts of maths.  :005: :D
Remembering Honey. Aug 2007-July 2020

Offline Karma

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Re: High Kidney Levels
« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2017, 03:55:28 PM »


(That is to say, I figure the moisture content should be about similar - and very definately similar between the Hill's wet food and the nature's menu pouches we use if we've failed to defrost anything.... )
Remembering Honey. Aug 2007-July 2020

Offline phoenix

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Re: High Kidney Levels
« Reply #19 on: March 25, 2017, 06:07:12 PM »
Bob  wouldnt eat the Hills renal, so I followed  some internet home made recipes.  The problem as ever , is balancing salt, phosphorous and calcium.  I gave tins to the PDSA.
Do check out the Nutriment  one,  it smells better!
By the way, has she been coughing bile at night  at all?   I mentioned this to my vet before he was diagnosed, but was given short shrift.  Also they told me he might have arthritis because he kept looking at his thigh/kidney area after running. Then bad breath and weight loss.  Needless to say I have changed vets again.
RIP Marti  the EPI springer age 12,  and beloved black cocker Bobby, 8 yrs old, too soon, from PLN.
Now owned by TInker, tiny hairy grey poodle/terrier rescue from Greece and Jack, local rescue,   scruffy ginger terrier mutt.

Offline Karma

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Re: High Kidney Levels
« Reply #20 on: March 25, 2017, 06:18:36 PM »


She did for a while - the bedtime biscuit sorted it out but, now you mention it, she has done on a couple of occassions recently.
And her breathe isn't as good as it was.   :-\
Remembering Honey. Aug 2007-July 2020

Offline its.sme

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Re: High Kidney Levels
« Reply #21 on: March 26, 2017, 08:26:37 AM »
Bea had slightly raised levels in December , she had pancreatitis at the time and spent a couple of nights at the Vets, initially the Kidney levels where not a concern but after a few days of comming home she started being sick again so she had a Scan.

The results showed calcification in both Kidneys, this is result of her having another health problem which can result in raised calcium levels in the blood, this was then deposited in her kidneys.

My Vet advised to keep her on her usual diet and they would monitor her, I decided to put her on filtered water and as I home cook for her she would have organic veg with chicken or turkey etc 3 times a day.

I decided I was going to reduce the amount of toxins in her system as much as I can, she is doing well but there is so much information out there which can be a little confusing at times.

I hope your girl feels better soon.

Sharon.

Offline ollie nathan's mum

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Re: High Kidney Levels
« Reply #22 on: March 26, 2017, 07:57:20 PM »
No advice to offer I'm afraid, just wanted to sat Hi, nice to hear from you, if anyone can sort it then , it's you.   :luv:
Ollie D.O.B 29/03/2010

Offline Karma

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Re: High Kidney Levels
« Reply #23 on: March 29, 2017, 10:45:36 AM »

Ok - having now been to the vet and got the actual figures, just wondering if anyone can shed any light on them.

The Blood results were not that abnormal - creatinine was within normal range at 92umol/L, and BUN was only slightly high at 11.2mmol/L.
However the Urine sample is noted at protein >20.0++++  - I'm guessing the ++++ means that it's very high, but can't work out what the actual number refers to.

On continuing to look at results, her urine specific gravity seems to be low (1.005) and the sediment showed casts - both of which are further indicators of kidney issues.

It suprises me, with these results, that they have not suggested doing a Protein/Creatinine ratio analysis - and I'll be asking them to do this when we go back in a couple of weeks. 
Remembering Honey. Aug 2007-July 2020

Offline Mari

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Re: High Kidney Levels
« Reply #24 on: March 29, 2017, 11:07:50 AM »
Usually lab results are not too helpful without reference values and definitely you need the unit. Stuff like that depends on what type of test was done and what device was used. It is possible they used some type of dipstick to test the urine. They would then compare the colour on the stick to a chart to read the results. https://goo.gl/images/yZz0FL For this test in the link >20 ++++ is in g/l and the highest value the test can measure. I would set up an appointment so the vet can explain what it actually means, or if you are going in for another test you can ask about it then :)

Offline Karma

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Re: High Kidney Levels
« Reply #25 on: March 29, 2017, 11:28:01 AM »


Thank you - the blood results all have the reference values, but obviously it was the urine sample that was the most abnormal, so that's helpful! :)

Remembering Honey. Aug 2007-July 2020

Offline elaine.e

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Re: High Kidney Levels
« Reply #26 on: May 03, 2017, 10:46:31 AM »
Hello Claire,

Just wondering how Honey is now? :D

Offline Karma

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Re: High Kidney Levels
« Reply #27 on: May 04, 2017, 04:01:47 PM »


We were in for repeat tests on Tuesday, so the results should be back tomorrow....

Will update....

What did seem concerning was that it was incredibly hard to get any kind of urine sample - even first thing in the morning all I got was a couple of mls, and the vet confirmed that it wasn't that she was just holding on due to me trying to get a sample - her bladder wasn't full...  so it looks like she's producing a very small amount of urine, especially considering her increased water intake.
Remembering Honey. Aug 2007-July 2020

Offline Patp

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Re: High Kidney Levels
« Reply #28 on: May 04, 2017, 04:29:21 PM »
The update will be interesting.  Jinley is having liver and kidney function blood tests on Monday after showing to have crystals in her urine.  Also fed raw but have been guided by the Nutriment Low Purine ingredients and have been giving a breakfast of a chicken wing then dinner which includes turkey, tripe, chicken livers, a sprat, coconut oil, Apple cider vinegar, and hydrangea root.

Did you change her diet?




Offline Karma

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Re: High Kidney Levels
« Reply #29 on: May 04, 2017, 04:51:26 PM »


We cut out the dried meat treats and replaced with veggies.
And we have reduced the amount of heart meat she gets, supplementing with a few more veggie cubes and a bit of tripe (which is apparently one of the best kidney diet raw foods out there).

Vet was happy with the small tweak at the minute, as bloods were not at a concerning level..
Remembering Honey. Aug 2007-July 2020