Boot Camp

[Blueberry]

Saw even more improvement this afternoon, so I decided to keep on with what we are doing, rather than risk it all going belly up by heading out on the road too soon.  He's been really good on the loose lead, and sit & stay, even when he saw his favourite neighbour heading towards us.
Having high value rewards has definitely helped today.  I cut his meals right down, as trainer said he was just a bit too well covered, and to watch it with the treats.

[Londongirl]

I am so delighted to hear that. And you are just right not to rush things.

I do think that starting over when they are that bit older makes things easier. You can see the little lightbulbs going off over their heads, and they are so happy when they realise they've made you happy.

[Blueberry]

A couple of little Eureka moments this morning, which I have to share! 
Firstly, Blue sat at the back door and waited for me to go through first WITHOUT BEING ASKED! 
Then, whilst loose lead walking on the cul de sac a little later on, our next door neighbour appeared on the horizon with her 5 month old collie pup - Blue and he are great pals and playmates, so I knew it would be impossible to maintain the loose lead.  However, he did sit and stay whilst my neighbour walked her pup past us, even though he really, really wanted to play.

[ips]

Great result, well done 👍

[bizzylizzy]

That's fantastic!, Well done Blue!!! Keep it up!!! 
Humphrey has to be reminded every time not to charge through the dog before me, strange how some things they seem to adopt straight away and yet with other things the penny just never seems to drop.

[Blueberry]

OK, not posted an update for a couple of days.
Yesterday we ventured a bit further, out onto the main road, as all seemed quiet.  As soon as we got out of the cul de sac, he was excited to be off somewhere, nose to the ground and pulling like a crazy thing.  So we didn't go far, I just kept stopping and putting him back where I wanted him.  I did the same again a few hours later, and he was doing ok, so we went a bit further up the street, but then I realised it was 3.15 as I saw children swarming out of the village school (my fault, for not being aware of the time).  However, he did a nice long 'sit, stay' whilst they all went by.  so I let him onto the green for a sniff as a reward, and then back home again.
Today we've just been up to the green and back, but he's pulling like a train and nose down again.  He wouldn't look at me, didn't listen, etc.  A lady appeared on the horizon with a very small dog (French Bulldog, I think?), I got him to 'sit and stay' so they could pass by, all was going well, but then he jumped up to greet the dog as it passed.    I feel like I'm getting a bit short on patience.  Do you think I have forged ahead too quickly?  I'm keen to get out on regular walks again, for my own selfish reasons.
Unfortunately I can't train him at home today, we've got gardeners in to top some trees and cut back hedges, and Blue is just dying to get involved in all that.
The trainer told me not to let him sniff and scent mark on walks; all his attention should be on me, but I can't see how I can stop this?

[Londongirl]

First of all, don't be discouraged!

Second, it's my guess that you've gone too fast. It's less than a week since you first posted about your new regime. It took me two weeks to see any glimmer that Henry was thinking about what I wanted rather than just responding to the treats in my hand. The key for me was doing heel work without a lead at home (lots of positioning games where he got a reward for being in the position I wanted) combined with lead walks where we did nothing but enforce the wanted position. Especially if he had a bad day or regressed a little, the games at home really helped cement it in his head what it was I wanted from him. I often did five minutes of that before we went out on the lead.

I KNOW how frustrating this process is. I really missed proper walks while we were training. I've been extremely guilty of rushing training in the past, but when my walker refused to take Henry anymore until both his lead walking and recall were sorted, I had no choice but to stick with it. And this time it worked because I went at Henry's pace. One of the things that tipped me off to the fact we were actually making progress was when he started self-correcting. Then you know the penny has dropped!

I understand your trainer wants Blue focussed on the training and I'd say Henry was involved enough in getting rewards that he did focus. But I certainly wouldn't want to be doing that sort of walking every time we are on the lead, and I hope your trainer wasn't suggesting it as a permanent thing. Our puppy trainer (who trains explosives sniffer spaniels!) told us to march down the middle of the pavement and never let Henry sniff at anything. Seems such a mean thing to do to a spaniel.

[ips]

Good post (again 😁) from LG
I would add that it seems training anything is a slow gradual process and I know that I have been guilty of frustration and changing method or just moving to fast.
A friend of mine and a very accomplished dog man uses the following expression "just keep nibbling away at it" I think even the very slightest improvement should be praised, I suppose that is the whole theory of shaping or in my case muddling 😁

[Blueberry]

Thanks.  The trainer did indeed suggest that any sniffing should be a reward and not allowed on normal walks, I was told not to let him be between me and the wall because it encourages 'wall hugging' (sniffing and scent marking), but actually we have narrow pavements here (if any) and our village is used as a rat run by commuters so is, at times, very dangerously busy with cars, so I would prefer Blue to be on the side of the wall rather than the side of the traffic.
I'm sure you're right LG, I went too fast.  I was encouraged by his good behaviour a couple of days back, and as I say, my fat self needs to get back on the road soon...
It's back to jankers on the cul due sac for Blue then, and heel sessions in the house - never thought of that, and trainer never suggested it either, but makes so much sense, thank you.
The gardeners have gone now, so at least he can go in the garden for a run about off lead.  I'll have to do my own walks when he's gone to bed!

[ips]

Thanks.  The trainer did indeed suggest that any sniffing should be a reward and not allowed on normal walks, I was told not to let him be between me and the wall because it encourages 'wall hugging' (sniffing and scent marking), but actually we have narrow pavements here (if any) and our village is used as a rat run by commuters so is, at times, very dangerously busy with cars, so I would prefer Blue to be on the side of the wall rather than the side of the traffic.
I'm sure you're right LG, I went too fast.  I was encouraged by his good behaviour a couple of days back, and as I say, my fat self needs to get back on the road soon...
It's back to jankers on the cul due sac for Blue then, and heel sessions in the house - never thought of that, and trainer never suggested it either, but makes so much sense, thank you.
The gardeners have gone now, so at least he can go in the garden for a run about off lead.  I'll have to do my own walks when he's gone to bed!

Good luck trying to stop a spaniel hunting on scent 😞

We are the same, the lane shown in the short vid I posted is used by probably a dozen local ish dogs every day and the scent must be very high. Eze just has a sniff every now and then so I just stop and let her because during these times she ain't pulling 👍
Would be different if she was "lining" one particular scent trail I expect.

[Londongirl]

I allow sniffing as a reward for good walking, both overtly and surreptitiously. If Henry is walking nicely I'll casually veer to where he wants to sniff so he doesn't realise I've done it and the lead stays loose.

If he pulls towards something for a sniff, I stop, and lean very slightly in the opposite direction to make sure he can't reach the Interesting Thing by pulling. He'll soon realise he's not getting anywhere and come back to my side. I'll then start walking towards the Interesting Thing. If he pulls again, we stop again. However long it takes, he WILL get to the Interesting Thing, but only when the lead is loose.

[ips]

I allow sniffing as a reward for good walking, both overtly and surreptitiously. If Henry is walking nicely I'll casually veer to where he wants to sniff so he doesn't realise I've done it and the lead stays loose.

If he pulls towards something for a sniff, I stop, and lean very slightly in the opposite direction to make sure he can't reach the Interesting Thing by pulling. He'll soon realise he's not getting anywhere and come back to my side. I'll then start walking towards the Interesting Thing. If he pulls again, we stop again. However long it takes, he WILL get to the Interesting Thing, but only when the lead is loose.

Good tip LG can I borrow it 😁

[bizzylizzy]

Don't get discouraged Blueberry, Humphrey's nearly 2 now and although we're progressing, it really doesn't happen overnight - I know how frustrating it is but do try to keep positive and celebrate every little success, however small it is. Try to set yourself easier goals - (the next lamp post without pulling, instead of the end of the road.....)so you can measure the successes.
I tried a tip from Zak George when Humphrey's really badly distracted - stop and get him to do something he can do so that you have an opportunity to praise him - a sit and look at you for a couple of seconds, a down or even "give me paw" or whatever he can do well. It sometimes just works in getting his attention back on you.  Blue's still very young, he and you WILL get there but don't put yourself under pressure by trying to achieve too much too quickly. We're all still in the battle with you, you're by no means on your own, as all the posts have shown, so chin up and keep on trucking!!, 

[Sumava Cockers]

Well done Blueberry ( and Blue).

I've just read this thread from start to finish and feel your frustration.

There's probably no hard and fast rule for  the speed at which to progress training.  Our boy seems to learn things very quickly,  but takes several weeks of repetition for it to sink in.  His predecessor took considerably longer but for her once it had sunk in,  it was imprinted for life.  They're all different,  just like us.  You seem to be doing a fine job of identifying where things are starting to unravel.

The sitting at the door thing is a good indicator of his acceptance of you as leader of the pack....at least in that  specific place:-)

Please keep the updates coming.  Its interesting and encouraging to read of the progress you're both making.

[Blueberry]

Thanks for the pep talk guys!  All your advice is good, and very welcome.  'Pace & patience' will be my new mantra 
The 'sit, stay' is pretty good now, already a big improvement, and the 'sit and wait' at the door is something I never thought he would catch on to, but turned out to be one of the first things.  Now I need to show him that the same rule applies at any gate, door or other threshold.
The 'no sniffing' thing troubles me quite a bit; he's an entire male spaniel, and surely sniffing and scent marking is what they live for?
(The trainer did say that he would be easier to train if he were castrated, but I'm still undecided on that issue, and leaning towards keeping him as is).