Author Topic: Castration and Hunting instinct  (Read 1867 times)

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Offline sodpot2000

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Re: Castration and Hunting instinct
« Reply #15 on: July 24, 2017, 01:26:36 PM »
Can't think of any reason why castration should have increase the hunting instinct. I have never heard anyone else suggest it.

Offline JeffD

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Re: Castration and Hunting instinct
« Reply #16 on: July 24, 2017, 02:08:33 PM »
If this were true all working gun dogs would be neutered...and they're kept entire wherever possible  ;)

I am with you on this one Helen, if it was the case every dog in gundog history not needed for breeding would have been done
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Offline Emilyoliver

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Re: Castration and Hunting instinct
« Reply #17 on: July 24, 2017, 03:25:03 PM »
If this were true all working gun dogs would be neutered...and they're kept entire wherever possible  ;)

I am with you on this one Helen, if it was the case every dog in gundog history not needed for breeding would have been done

Except it's a bit of a conundrum as you'd not know how brilliant a hunter it was (and worthy of being bred from) until it no longer had the necessary bits!

(As an aside, I believe hunting instinct/keenness is either there or not - it's genetic.  And if we're talking about show bred dogs then you have loads that just aren't interested and the odd one that is.  Be they entire or not.  Whether they run off after rabbits or birds is down to training not hormones).
Michelle, Emily and Ollie

Offline JeffD

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Re: Castration and Hunting instinct
« Reply #18 on: July 24, 2017, 04:00:12 PM »
If this were true all working gun dogs would be neutered...and they're kept entire wherever possible  ;)

I am with you on this one Helen, if it was the case every dog in gundog history not needed for breeding would have been done

Except it's a bit of a conundrum as you'd not know how brilliant a hunter it was (and worthy of being bred from) until it no longer had the necessary bits!

(As an aside, I believe hunting instinct/keenness is either there or not - it's genetic.  And if we're talking about show bred dogs then you have loads that just aren't interested and the odd one that is.  Be they entire or not.  Whether they run off after rabbits or birds is down to training not hormones).

A quality gun dog needs the right breeding, but I am positive as I have done it twice you can get any spaniel to work to the gun if you introduce them to enough game at an early age, treat a show puppy as a gun dog and it will become one. It will not win a trial but it will put game in the bag that you would not have had without a dog.
Never drive faster than your guardian angel can fly

Offline Emilyoliver

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Re: Castration and Hunting instinct
« Reply #19 on: July 24, 2017, 04:29:43 PM »
If this were true all working gun dogs would be neutered...and they're kept entire wherever possible  ;)

I am with you on this one Helen, if it was the case every dog in gundog history not needed for breeding would have been done

Except it's a bit of a conundrum as you'd not know how brilliant a hunter it was (and worthy of being bred from) until it no longer had the necessary bits!

(As an aside, I believe hunting instinct/keenness is either there or not - it's genetic.  And if we're talking about show bred dogs then you have loads that just aren't interested and the odd one that is.  Be they entire or not.  Whether they run off after rabbits or birds is down to training not hormones).

A quality gun dog needs the right breeding, but I am positive as I have done it twice you can get any spaniel to work to the gun if you introduce them to enough game at an early age, treat a show puppy as a gun dog and it will become one. It will not win a trial but it will put game in the bag that you would not have had without a dog.
Yes, fair point.  My show cocker has a better nose than my 'working' working one.  What I was saying is that it's got little to do with castration/ not whether a dog hunts and chases game.  I agree you can train any number of different breeds to work to the gun provided you have the patience and inclination.  And depending on what sort of end result you're after. We had a ridgeback on our shoot, and there are always terriers in the line.
Michelle, Emily and Ollie

Offline Londongirl

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Re: Castration and Hunting instinct
« Reply #20 on: July 24, 2017, 04:38:34 PM »
Is there scientific evidence that castration affects hunting ability? As emilyoliver said, it's hard to measure as you can't make a control situation for each individual dog - you can't measure his hunting ability before castration and ability after AND eliminate all other variables as a cause of change in behaviour. You can only compare dogs to each other, and some are just more genetically driven than others. So measuring what might or might not be affected by castration in terms of hunting ability is incredibly hard to to do.

Is it the case that working dogs are not castrated because it is the long held belief that they shouldn't be, rather than it being actually known is a bad idea? I can see that if you don't have any evidence one way or another, not castrating is the best and least risky option, because it still keeps all options open. But that convention in itself is not proof.
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Offline Helen

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Re: Castration and Hunting instinct
« Reply #21 on: July 24, 2017, 06:07:42 PM »
The only comparison I can make is in my gun dog classes.  There was an early neutered dog - his attention span was poor and it took a really long time for him to learn and retain any commands. There was a dog neutered at 13 months and he was ok, didn't really have much drive or urgency and would rather play with other dogs than do his job.  Then there were the entire ones - they had much more drive, they were much quicker to pick things up (literally and figuratively) and they had no interest in any of the other dogs in the class.  They were far more switched on and focussed. 

Not scientific and purely anecdotal but it may be one reason why working dogs are not neutered as routine.

I think it's also fair to say that early neutered dogs in particular can be perpetual teenagers as their hormones were never allowed to develop and level out.  That, on a shoot, or in training, is just not desirable.  Entire dogs mature and this is essential for a working dog.
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Offline Gazrob

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Re: Castration and Hunting instinct
« Reply #22 on: July 24, 2017, 08:23:38 PM »
Hunting is what cocker spaniels were born to do. Taking away their hormones shouldn't make a difference

Offline Emilyoliver

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Re: Castration and Hunting instinct
« Reply #23 on: July 25, 2017, 09:27:10 AM »
As a generalization/sweeping statement, I would think that castrating a male dog would if anything, take the edge off somewhat as there'd be no testosterone.  If you look at entire male animals in general they're typically larger, stronger and bolshier than their castrated counterparts - examples like bulls and oxen, and stallions and geldings.  In a working dog you'd want as much drive as is manageable for it to do it's job no matter what.  I'd not castrate any of my male dogs unless there was a medical reason for it.
Michelle, Emily and Ollie