Poisonous Plants

[Darwin]

I remember seeing a list of garden plants that are poisonous to dogs, but can't find it.

[sodpot2000]

Here is the Kennel Club list:

http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/getting-a-dog-or-puppy/general-advice-about-caring-for-your-new-puppy-or-dog/puppy-environment/house-and-garden-plants-poisonous-to-dogs/

[AlanT]

Trouble is this gives no indication of the actual toxicity.

How much Rhubarb leaf is needed to cause a problem?  A nibble, a whole leaf? This is vital information.

I'll bet no dog will eat a whole leaf.  They will taste awful. But a quick bite, perhaps.

I've got thousands of Wisteria leaves here.  Mostly these are brown and dessicated when they reach dog level.

[Darwin]

I think the Dogs Trust does a more detailed list but doesn't say quantities.

[AlanT]

I am a bit shocked at the Kennel Club here.  This is typical of the "non-information" all to common on Internet.

How many dogs actually got poisoned?  By what.  How much did they eat.  That's information.

Chocolate is "poisonous" to dogs I've read.  Now all over the place dogs scoff chocolate,  bars,  assortment boxes etc.  Happens all the time.  Probably very bad for them.  Any actual fatalities?  I for one, would like to know.

Here is a known toxin with recorded fatalities.  A good lap from a bowl will be serious.  It gets left about by people that don't like other peoples pets.  Cats are the usual victim, they like it.

This is a real risk in need of genuine consideration.  It's Ethylene Glycol, commonly found as AntiFreeze.
Anybody know of a dog being affected?

[elaine.e]

I am a bit shocked at the Kennel Club here.  This is typical of the "non-information" all to common on Internet.

How many dogs actually got poisoned?  By what.  How much did they eat.  That's information.

Chocolate is "poisonous" to dogs I've read.  Now all over the place dogs scoff chocolate,  bars,  assortment boxes etc.  Happens all the time.  Probably very bad for them.  Any actual fatalities?  I for one, would like to know.

Here is a known toxin with recorded fatalities.  A good lap from a bowl will be serious.  It gets left about by people that don't like other peoples pets.  Cats are the usual victim, they like it.

This is a real risk in need of genuine consideration.  It's Ethylene Glycol, commonly found as AntiFreeze.
Anybody know of a dog being affected?

The Kennel Club list, like many, is designed to make people aware of plants that can poison. I don't think they can be expected to publish details of how much of any given plant would have to be ingested by dogs of particular weight, size, age etc. to either make them unwell or potentially kill. It makes dog owners aware of plants that are toxic, and gives them the opportunity to assess the plants they have in their gardens, do a bit more research and make a decision about keeping or getting rid of any particular plants.

The theobromine in chocolate can kill, depending on the amount ingested, size of dog etc. and it can cause a whole range of mild to very nasty symptoms too. Personally I've not known of a dog that has died after eating chocolate, but I've known of one or two that have ended up at the vets on a drip because they've been so ill. Theobromine poisoning is something that dog owners should be aware of.

As for glycol, there was a TV news item just a few days ago where a dog had died after eating ham that had been dipped in glycol and apparently left out to poison rats. I've also read of dogs that have been made ill simply by licking an accidental spill of antifreeze.

The internet has value in making people aware so they can then make an informed decision. Of course, they also have to make an informed decision about what to believe on the internet in the first place, but that's a separate issue and one we all have to deal with every day.

[AlanT]

That's some useful information about Chocolate.  I read it as, the dog may get pretty ill if they eat a lot.

This is a much lower risk than Glycol.  You don't need much and it's often fatal.  It's often left about in urban areas for whatever reason.

I await a genuine report of a dog poisoned by Rhubarb leaves.  I think this may be impossible in fact. Just can't ingest enough.  But I'd like to be sure.

[rednblack]

For the chocolate dosage to produce a range of symptoms in your dog, try this chart: http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2007/10/pets/chocolate-chart-interactive

[bizzylizzy]

A little off subject here, but interesting so thought I'd mention it -  an elderly man died here in 2015 after eating soup made from home grown courgettes. It turned out that he had harvested the seeds every year for years and had continually sown  them again. This constant process caused the courgette  to mutate back to an original marrow form which contained a large amount of Cucurbitacin, which is poisonous. Apparantly it had tasted very bitter but he didn't want to upset his wife, who had cooked it, so he ate it! Any sort of courgettes, marrow, pumkin or cucumber that tastes bitter should be disguarded!

[elaine.e]

That's some useful information about Chocolate.  I read it as, the dog may get pretty ill if they eat a lot.

This is a much lower risk than Glycol.  You don't need much and it's often fatal.  It's often left about in urban areas for whatever reason.

I await a genuine report of a dog poisoned by Rhubarb leaves.  I think this may be impossible in fact. Just can't ingest enough.  But I'd like to be sure.

I don't know of any dogs or other animals poisoned by rhubarb leaves, but apparently during World War 1 at least one person died and several were ill after the British Government informed the public, during the food shortages that occurred as the war went on, that rhubarb leaves could be eaten! I don't know how they were eaten (soup, veggie or whatever) or how much the affected individuals ate.

[AlanT]

Here is my hazardous plant. Well one of them anyway.

[Mari]

With many things you can find the level of toxicity by googling, but it would be nice to see it reflected in a list.

Toxic doses of theobromine is pretty easy to calculate, a quick google search will even give you calculators that do it for you. A small piece of milk chocolate will usually be harmless, but dark chocolate contains much more cocoa and dogs will reach toxic dose much more easily. My dog managed to eat enough chocolate that it would likely have killed her without treatment (one 100g plate of dark chocolate). She had neurological symptoms, it was very scary!

Ethylene glycol is toxic for all animals, including us. I've luckily never seen a dog or cat get poisoned by it. But I've seen the results on histological slides of kidneys and it is bad! I did a google search and found out that the lethal dose for a dog is 4,4ml/kg, but that is the lethal dose, toxic dose will be even less.

I too get really annoyed with lists that don't show any indication of degree of toxicity. Like the food lists for dog. They are pages long when in reality, unless the dog ingests huge amounts, you only have to be concerned about a handful of things. It would be nice if they could give us categories like "not ideal, expect diarrhoea if they eat it" and "straight to vet in panic mode if they lick it".

I am completely clueless on decorative plants, so I just assume all of them are toxc

[AlanT]

There are now Antifreeze products about that don't use Glycol.  It's so nasty I'd like to see it all gone.

[sodpot2000]

For those interested,

The LD50 for theobromine in dogs is 300mg per kg of body weight. So for an 11kg cocker, 3.3g of theobromine would be likely to be lethal. The question however is how much theobromine is in the chocolate? Milk chocolate may contain as little as a tenth of the theobromine found in a high cocoa, very dark confectioner's chocolate. The best dark chocolate has about 14g of theobromine per kg of chocolate and so a potentially lethal amount for an 11kg cocker could be as low as 235g, or higher if there is less of the active ingredient. The Merck Veterinary Manual suggests that an ounce of milk chocolate per pound of body weight may be fatal to dogs.

Chocolate is also poisonous to humans but you would need to get through about 12lb of the best confectioner's dark chocolate in a single sitting before you slid off your mortal coil.

[AlanT]

Got some very nice figures there. Thanks for posting.

If I read it right an average Cocker will have to eat best part of 2 pounds of Chocolate to get a fatal dose.
Somewhat less if it's the strong dark stuff.

Of course a lot less will be required to make them sick.  I'd guess that a Cocker eating 2 pounds of chocolate will in fact sick it up quite quickly.