Author Topic: Easily distracted, stick obsessed, no recall pup!  (Read 1184 times)

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Offline danb86

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Easily distracted, stick obsessed, no recall pup!
« on: April 21, 2017, 12:00:11 AM »
Hello everybody,

I’ll try to keep this short and clear, though there are many factors….

Daisy, our 9 month old working cocker has developed some annoying habits over the last month when we take her out for her walks.

She has a mad obsession with sticks. Despite throwing them for her when she was younger, she fell ill a few times, our arms were hurting, and she seemed to do more running when doing her own thing. So we decided to ignore them and it worked, occasionally she’d pick one up but it wouldn’t last.

Now, I don’t quite remember how it escalated but now when she finds a stick that is worthy, it becomes the focus of her walk. She loses all interest in socialising/playing and instead she runs over to groups of people sat in the park and encourages them to throw the stick. The only way we get her back is to get the stick ourselves so she’ll follow us away from the group. She has also picked up the habit of running over to groups without a stick, and then finding one near them. She runs over to people kicking a ball or throwing a frisbee and chases whatever they are playing with, but does not attack it. The jist of it is she runs over to groups of people and has a mad obsession with sticks.

We’ve tried throwing balls for her at the park, but she has no interest, although she plays with them at home. My guess is it’s because she can't rip them up like sticks!

Here’s some background info… Training our dogs beyond the basics is not something we’ve ever done, but Daisy can sit, lie down, wait, stay, understands no, leave it, drop it and as of today is being loose lead trained. She was once good at the come command, I think it helped that it was winter and nobody was at the park, but now there are lots of distractions.

I notice when she is going to run off to groups, and when it started I’d tell her no and call her back and it would work most of the time, but now it is not effective, once she wants to go, she’s going.

From today, we are no longer taking her to the park, but we would like to train her to stop this behaviour for future ease and hopefully we can return to the park. Luckily there is a large grass area near, where people do not go and she runs around in a huge circle non stop (her worker instinct I guess, which I find amazing and fascinating!)  When I use the come command in this situation it works. Not as sharp as it used to, but she understands it, and does it.

So, how do I stop her running off to every single group of people at the park? What do I do with the stick obsession? I’d prefer to not have to start throwing the stick again, but she absolutely loves them to the point I can’t describe!

Our main concern is she’s not obeying the come command when she’s distracted.

Any help will be much appreciated.

Thanks, Dan.

Offline bizzylizzy

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Re: Easily distracted, stick obsessed, no recall pup!
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2017, 07:03:52 AM »
Hi Dan, welcome to COL, I'm sure you'll get lots of tips here from others with workers - my dog, Humphrey, is a show line, but I think my advice would be to try and find some sort of mental stimulation for Daisy both while you're out and also at home, from what you've described, she's finding simple walks a bit boring so is seeking out entertainment from other objects or people. You could try hiding the ball and sending her off to find it, scatter treats for her to find, play a tug game, encourage her to jump over/under things etc - in short, try and make yourself the object of interest rather than letting her go off and find someone else. I know workers have a lot more energy than shows but its amazing how much they can use up with mental exercises. I try to discourage sticks after seeing some horrible photos of injuries, I don't throw them anymore and if Humphrey does insist on carrying one, I take it off him and give it him back again so he's holding it in the middle rather than the end (I take it and give it back again as if I just take it off him, he wants it even more - that's my reasoning anyway but we're still working on it! ;))
There'll be lots more advice to come, I'm sure, in the meantime, we'd love to see some pictures of Daisy!!

Offline ips

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Re: Easily distracted, stick obsessed, no recall pup!
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2017, 08:34:24 AM »
Sounds like you need to engage with her and to do this you need to give her what she wants and as a working dog that is hunting. Drop a ball or a dummy whilst your on a walk then hunt her back for it. Don't send her out for it but get her hunting at your feet, good things happen at your feet 😁
WCS do not do walks they will hunt with or without you. Be careful with sticks, WCS do not walk over and pick things up they run and hit it with force. If you ever watch a dog retrieve a runner (undead pheasant) you will see why. Don't worry if things seem to be going backwards she is at that age 😉
Muddling along in the hope that one day it all makes sense.

Offline Helen

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Re: Easily distracted, stick obsessed, no recall pup!
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2017, 09:30:56 AM »
Do you have any gundog trainers in your area?  She could benefit from some basic training and they could help get the focus back on you and perhaps divert her attention away from sticks  ;)

helen & jarvis x


Offline Emilyoliver

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Re: Easily distracted, stick obsessed, no recall pup!
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2017, 09:50:40 AM »
Hi Dan.  Agree with all the posts above.  Your puppy wants interaction and games.  These workers really need a job to do and the best way to get them engaged and cooperative is to use the skills they have been bred to use - namely hunting and retrieving.  They bore very quickly just 'going for walks' and are quite liable to go off and find their own entertainment elsewhere if you don't keep them stimulated around you.  You said that her hunting fascinates you.  Have you considered taking her to gundog training classes (with a spaniel trainer not a Labrador one)?  A trainer will be able to explain what motivates these little dogs and help with channeling her drive into more acceptable behaviours such as close hunting and retrieving games. She's likely ignoring the recall now for 2 reasons.  1) she's got more confident and reached 'teenage phase' so will be pushing boundaries, and 2) recall has become very un-rewarding as it means taking her away from the games she is instigating with others.  Therefore you really need to re-teach her that a recall means a game with you so that she looks forward to returning to you.  That's all a bit muddled there, but I'd really recommend learning more about what these dogs are about and what they need - gundog classes would be a good start.  Not sure where you are - may be able to help with recommending a trainer.  There really is nothing to beat working with these dogs at what they do best.  hugely rewarding.  Good luck with her.
Michelle, Emily and Ollie

Offline AlanT

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Re: Easily distracted, stick obsessed, no recall pup!
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2017, 11:20:48 AM »
Try scent training.  This maybe much easier than you expect.  I find this fascinating to watch.  It combines lots of useful skills,  swapping, staying, leaving, not-guarding.

Mine is highly motivated to do this and gets a sense of satisfaction I think.  And half an hour is pretty tiring. 

I just started behind the house marking paving slabs with a biscuit.  We got going in a week or so.

Every walk I do a few "blind-retrieves".  If I have an assistant to look after the dog I'll go hundreds of yards into a wood and drop a ball behind a tree.  One tree out of thousands and the dog will track me and me be on that ball in about 15 seconds.  If he misses he will never give up.

 

Offline ips

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Re: Easily distracted, stick obsessed, no recall pup!
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2017, 12:52:06 PM »
Hi Dan.  Agree with all the posts above.  Your puppy wants interaction and games.  These workers really need a job to do and the best way to get them engaged and cooperative is to use the skills they have been bred to use - namely hunting and retrieving.  They bore very quickly just 'going for walks' and are quite liable to go off and find their own entertainment elsewhere if you don't keep them stimulated around you.  You said that her hunting fascinates you.  Have you considered taking her to gundog training classes (with a spaniel trainer not a Labrador one)?  A trainer will be able to explain what motivates these little dogs and help with channeling her drive into more acceptable behaviours such as close hunting and retrieving games. She's likely ignoring the recall now for 2 reasons.  1) she's got more confident and reached 'teenage phase' so will be pushing boundaries, and 2) recall has become very un-rewarding as it means taking her away from the games she is instigating with others.  Therefore you really need to re-teach her that a recall means a game with you so that she looks forward to returning to you.  That's all a bit muddled there, but I'd really recommend learning more about what these dogs are about and what they need - gundog classes would be a good start.  Not sure where you are - may be able to help with recommending a trainer.  There really is nothing to beat working with these dogs at what they do best.  hugely rewarding.  Good luck with her.
Agree with all of that.
With regards to recall I try to make recall the start of something not the end. So, when she or he returns to you reward with releasing to hunt or send on a retrieve. I even reward stop with a continuation of hunting. Dogs really are a bit thick sometimes 😁
Muddling along in the hope that one day it all makes sense.

Offline Emilyoliver

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Re: Easily distracted, stick obsessed, no recall pup!
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2017, 02:17:01 PM »
With regards to recall I try to make recall the start of something not the end. So, when she or he returns to you reward with releasing to hunt or send on a retrieve. I even reward stop with a continuation of hunting. Dogs really are a bit thick sometimes 😁
I do similar - teach a stop using go (a retrieve) as a reward.  So my puppy now stops dead on the whistle and stares at me waiting for the ball.  Will need to extend the stop/steadiness next, but he's still a baby so lots of time for that.
Michelle, Emily and Ollie

Offline danb86

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Re: Easily distracted, stick obsessed, no recall pup!
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2017, 10:54:42 PM »
Thanks everyone.

Had a quick browse of the replies after work. Before our evening walk we had a brief play with her ball at home, then at the large grass area I was very enthusiastic towards the ball and that seemed to get Daisy very interested. I had her chasing the ball, bringing it back (most of the time), then fake throwing it, and when she was off I'd throw it in her area to search out. I praised her every time she chased, found and retrieved the ball.

I toned it down after 25-30 minutes. I made the fetch game short to improve her bringing the ball back to me, which seems to work when I sit down, but can sometimes take longer when I'm standing, but I'm sure I can sort that out, as it's perfect at home. I mixed it up with a few bouncers for her to jump and catch, and threw in a couple of recalls towards the end which eventually worked. The whole time she was totally hooked on the ball like it was a stick!

So I would say it's a step in the right direction, though still more to get done. I'll think of ways for Daisy to have fun, use her skills and continue to be engaged with me, whilst introducing the recall followed by reward as others have mentioned. The loose lead walking was even a massive improvement too. What a day!

You said that her hunting fascinates you.  Have you considered taking her to gundog training classes (with a spaniel trainer not a Labrador one)?  A trainer will be able to explain what motivates these little dogs and help with channeling her drive into more acceptable behaviours such as close hunting and retrieving games.

Not sure where you are - may be able to help with recommending a trainer.  There really is nothing to beat working with these dogs at what they do best.  hugely rewarding.  Good luck with her.

Me and my Dad could watch her for hours when she does it, it's amazing, she doesn't stop. We've always thought about encouraging this side of her (without going hunting) because it's when she uses most of her energy and is great to watch. So a trainer could be a fun move for everyone. We are in Bristol, any recommendations would be good.

I'm really grateful for all the replies. Nothing makes me happier than making Daisy happy, and you guys have certainly set me off in the right direction. Thanks!

Offline bizzylizzy

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Re: Easily distracted, stick obsessed, no recall pup!
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2017, 07:02:00 AM »
That's what's so great about this site, I'd have given up long ago without the support here, its a great motivator!
Best of luck, keep us updated!

Offline Emilyoliver

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Re: Easily distracted, stick obsessed, no recall pup!
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2017, 09:40:09 AM »
Hi Dan, well done so far! Sounds like she's really enjoying the interaction. As for training, you have the Bristol and West Working Gundog society - they have a spaniel section. Here is the link: http://www.bwwgs.org.uk

Most clubs offer training through the summer, and if not should be able to recommend trainers in the area. You could also offer to help at a test or trial and get to watch the dogs working. You don't necessarily have to work your dog to the gun - the summer training will be on dummies. But you may end up hooked once you see the dogs working. It's what happened to me!
Michelle, Emily and Ollie

Offline Londongirl

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Re: Easily distracted, stick obsessed, no recall pup!
« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2017, 10:53:42 AM »
Following this thread with interest. If I'd had this advice when Henry was a pup, I doubt we'd have the trouble we gave with recall now.

I'm reintruducing a recall whistle but this time, instead of a food reward from my hand, I am rewarding with a ball throw or a game of tug or sending him off to find treats sprinkled around my feet. I'm trying to associate recall with all the best things in Henry's world. I'm hoping that this more 'holistic' approach will lead to a more embedded recall.
Rachael (me) and Henry (him)


Offline danb86

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Re: Easily distracted, stick obsessed, no recall pup!
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2017, 07:36:48 PM »
Just an update, Daisy has become a beast at retrieving the ball (video link at bottom of this post). We've also introduced her to a duck scented dummy at home. We get her to sit and wait, hide it in the gatden, and release to sniff it out. She loves it!

I've also been in contact with BWWGDS who put me onto a local gundog trainer and we have an initial meeting booked for a week Sunday which I'm incredibly excited about.

We haven't used much of the come command for 2 reasons, not sure how now she's constantly focused on the ball and we're avoiding the park for a few more weeks so haven't needed it, although I know we will need to get it retrained. But these are things I can ask the trainer about I guess!

Given up on loose lead walking but have read londongirls diary which I hope to follow soon.

As promised, video link -  https://youtu.be/qlSY4Z-_MZ8 hope you like watching the same thing for 90 seconds!!

Sent from my E5823 using Tapatalk


Offline ips

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Re: Easily distracted, stick obsessed, no recall pup!
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2017, 08:02:18 PM »
Brilliant, she is loving that ball. Now you have a very powerful training tool at your disposal  👍
Muddling along in the hope that one day it all makes sense.