advice for 12 week pup and/or dog trainer

[rachmonkey]

Looking for some advice. Have a lovely pup, from a working gun dog pedigree background. been a complete joy and toilet trained quickly, like his crate and sleeps form 11-6.30. learning quickly - will sit, go to his bed on command (wont stay there yet! ;-/). Eating and growing well. in the last week he has been testing out his boundaries. jumping up at times, chewing things he shouldnt. the usual. If he has something new or particularly 'exciting' that he shouldn't he sometimes will go to snap at us if we take it away. He doesn't hurt us and we are standing out ground, but obviously its all new to us (first time puppy owner!). We are now using something more tempting to get him away and that works too.

 We sought advice of a 'friend of friend' who is a dog trainer. The advice she gave was good and has helped. She came and spent time with him/us and it was useful. What's annoyed/worried me is she is kind of making out that this is quite 'unusual' for a 12 week old. I should say its snap is not particularly vicious, but we are very aware we need to nip it in the bud and show him that we are 'pack leader' etc. Next time I saw her she emphasized again he had "resource issues"... and that 'working gun dogs' can be challenging. Even though this has only happened on a couple of occasions each day over the last week. To cut a long story short - I have gone from feeling like this is normal dog behaviour, testing his bounderies etc, and knowing that we need to be consistent; to worrying more!!  instead of building my confidence it has actually knocked it. His temperament  is absolutely lovely!

Any advice from you guys would be helpful. I'm tempted to ditch her and seek advice elsewhere...

[Emma0Milo]

Hi rachmonkey. I'm a new puppy owner too and my Milo is 6months old now. I would like to say that puppy nipping is all very normal behaviour especially in cocker spaniels as I found out and have been reassured on this site by more experienced owners. In the first weeks we had him he was constantly hanging off trouser legs, trying to play using his teeth, trying to eat the sofa etc. We just turned our backs on him or removed him or ourselves. It takes time and he still has his funny five minutes more with the kids a couple times a day but with consistency he's is getting better. As for the snapping when you take something off him, Milo hasn't really done that so I'm not much help there. I would say to swap what you don't want him to have with something he likes or a small treat. He's obviously doing really well in all other areas regarding training so you're doing really well as he's still so young [emoji3]


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[ips]

Sounds normal cocker to me 😁

[Londongirl]

There is a difference between normal puppy nipping and resource guarding and it sounds from your post as if there is a little of the latter going on, as noticed by your trainer.

There are people here with lots of experience on resource guarding (not something I've had to deal with myself) and I'm sure someone will be along soon with advice. It's a behaviour that does need the correct management. You'll find that these days dominance and 'pack leader' theory are not really thought to be right anymore. Standing your ground with a resource guarding puppy might make things worse! Focus on building a positive relationship with your pup. They don't really understand the concept of punishment, so it's much better to redirect them away from behaviour you don't want and reward good behaviour every time you see it.

[Emilyoliver]

I have no experience with resource guarding, however it is quite natural for a dog to try to protect whatever high value item it has from being snatched away.  As gundogs, cockers are bred to hunt and retrieve game. therefore you have a much easier job teaching them to bring you things they pick up (be they contraband or not).  Instead of snatching/grabbing things from your puppy, I'd suggest you encourage it bring whatever it has straight to you.  Instead of chasing him and taking things away from him, why not encourage him whenever he has any item to come in for loads of praise and lots of cuddles.  You can also swap items for food of you like to use food.  Get him used to bringing you items to show you what he's got.  Ask him for the article, have a look at it and if it's not contraband - give it straight back to him with lots of praise once again.  play retrieving games with him as well so he associates bringing things to you with fun.

[ips]

I have no experience with resource guarding, however it is quite natural for a dog to try to protect whatever high value item it has from being snatched away.  As gundogs, cockers are bred to hunt and retrieve game. therefore you have a much easier job teaching them to bring you things they pick up (be they contraband or not).  Instead of snatching/grabbing things from your puppy, I'd suggest you encourage it bring whatever it has straight to you.  Instead of chasing him and taking things away from him, why not encourage him whenever he has any item to come in for loads of praise and lots of cuddles.  You can also swap items for food of you like to use food.  Get him used to bringing you items to show you what he's got.  Ask him for the article, have a look at it and if it's not contraband - give it straight back to him with lots of praise once again.  play retrieving games with him as well so he associates bringing things to you with fun.

I second all of that..

[rachmonkey]

all great advice thankyou!

[LisaL]

to be hones the first thing id do I ditch your current trainer. Anyone suggesting "pack leader" theories is stuck in the dark ages of dog training. Id look into playing games with him where you swap one high value item for another so he doesn't see you taking things off him as a bad thing. Lets me honest if someone tried to take your steak dinner or a fancy pair of Jimmy Choos id be annoyed too but there are ways you can make it a fun game. Also for future if he picks up something dangerous hell be happy to give it up.
Nipping is normal. If its during petting or playing id yelp and immediately stop the game so he starts to learn hard biting ends the fun. The game can continue after a few minutes time out

Sounds like a normal puppy and youre doing great

[rachmonkey]

thanks LisaL..

[phoenix]

I owned a guarder. He showed it at 12 weeks. The huge difference is that resource guarders growl. Then they stand their ground and their fear escalates.      I wouldn't think yours is showing it. Snapping and nipping is normal, and a mother dog would push him if he did that. Humans achieve trust and compliance by swapping and not making an issue of their protests. It's time to socialise and meet other dogs, and learn good manners!  Have fun, and lots of five minute training spots.  Avoid stress, and allow lots of naps.   He's still a baby!

[rachmonkey]

thanks Phoenix - this is my feeling too. Thanks for the advice. A shame this trainer has knocked my confidence... I know she means well but he's still so little!
 Easter holidays meant we had to wait longer for his jabs... But today he went out for the first time! He's more than ready..
reward all the way now!

[Patp]

Great advice from everybody.  I would just add that it would be useful to find a good gun dog trainer ( a spaniel one not a labrador one).  Working cockers have an innate desire to work and please and you should build on this good characteristic.  Whether you would ever want to work or not, you will learn what stimulates (and tires out) your dog, how to use a whistle to stop him on a sixpence and come back to you (very useful when they are being deaf) and how to "work" him in his desire to seek out hidden treasures.

A bored puppy will find itself ways to stimulate and occupy himself and even negative reactions are seen as a game.  If you dont give chase they will soon lose interest.

The last thing I would add is the key is consistency and both you and your OH will need to be trained!

[AlanT]

Try a simple test with your puppy.
Hide something, I used golf-balls when a puppy.  Later on they are a bit too easy to swallow.

Have the dog with you and make a fuss of the hiding operation. Show him and tap a few local trees or plants with your foot.  Make him look at the area.

Return to the same spot a few days later.  I did this somewhat by accident on one of our earliest walks out.
I was amazed that even a young pup remembered the location and drew me too it.

As time went on I hid half a dozen objects.  Other people took the dog, they did NOT know the hiding place.
But he still found it.  At a 1-year old I visited a target we had not been to for 6-months.  He found this easily off lead while I was heading to the wrong tree.  Better memory than me.

This told me that a Cocker can have an amazing memory for geography and the places of objects. I gained a huge insight into the mental power of these dogs and this helped a lot with training.

When we got some resource guarding and I started to train it out,  I made a display that the object that was given up to me, ALWAYS went in a bag in my right-hand pocket.  Later on it came back out.

My theory is that they get anxious if they don't know where something valuable has gone.  You must build trust that you are looking after things.

At 3-years I have a dog that will give up a Beef-bone to me and share his favourite ball with a 1-year old child. They roll it back and forward to each other.  It's lovely to watch.

About the same time I started scent tracking.  It was very easy for the pup to catch on. Just a few weeks.
Many aspects of training come into this.  Sit/stay,  give,  direction control when lost.  Half an hour of this is mentally tiring for an adult, 15 minutes would get you a sleeping puppy.

[bizzylizzy]

Hi and a welcome from me too!!
A lot of people on here have previously recommended a book called "Mine" by Jean Donaldson, which covers the subject of resource guarding. I haven't read that particular book as we don't have the problem but am in the middle of " The culture clash" by the same author where she covers lots of different aspects of communication with dogs and also briefly covers the subject of guarding. Its an amazing insight into the way they see the world, I really wish I'd discovered her before.
Might be worth having a look for "Mine"  - it'll be easier dealing with it correctly at this age than do something wrong that might make things worse.
You'll get loads of good advice on here aswell - lots of helpful people with years if experience.
Best of luck!!

[hoover]

My experience is similar to that of Phoenix I think, in that my dog started displaying guarding tendencies at a young age...not sure if it was quite at 12 weeks but certainly by 4 months we had had a couple of serious incidents that had escalated to multiple quick bites on hand and lower arm.  Not sure if it's the same for you as your description sounds a bit different from our experience but I'd say any work that you can do that others have already suggested will stand you in good stead regardless of whether your dog is really guarding things or not.

I'll dissent from some of the other posts and say that whilst I know concepts of 'pack leadership' may be out of fashion I do believe that having firm, calm authority over your dog can help mitigate the extent of any guarding - BUT.... my experience is that you can not do this when the guarding is currently happening as the dog, like Phoenix says, will stands its ground and escalate the situation to more serious forms of aggression.  Which is not what you want them to practice, as each time they do it is a learning curve for them that they can resort to this again in similar future situations. 

Instead I think you have to work on this authority through training and the dog learning good general manners at times when it is more relaxed  - when you do this you set up a more respectful attitude from the dog which might help mitigate any likely guarding.  In my experience it's  not the be all and end all (Ollie will still guard given the right circumstances like high value bones coupled with sleepiness) but it helps.  I would also say work on the body handling - groom him regularly, get him used to body examinations where you look at paws, ears, teeth etc (give treat for positive associations)  and keep an eye out for tendencies to guard locations like favourite spots on the sofa/ bed and train that out if it arises (these issues can tend to co-occur apparently and this was certainly the case with our dog).

If you're not happy with your trainer, change them. It doesn't mean that she is wrong in what she is advising necessarily, but you do need to have confidence in who you are working with.