Walking on lead. Advice needed

[TheAdventuresofBarnaby]

Hi guys,

I was just reading about the tribulations that the teenage Jett is inflicting on his slaves.  Rather than divert that thread I'm starting this one as I have a worry.

Barnaby is now coming up to 7 months old.  In the last few months we've opened a business in our local town and he's been coming into work with use every day.  This entails several walks each day on-lead.  This afternoon as I walked him back to the car,  I realised just how well he is doing.  For the most part its loose lead,  and if he starts to pull a small tug on the lead to remind him, a click of the tongue, or the command heel mostly corrects it.  He's now getting to understand that crossing roads requires a sit and wait until given permission to cross.

Pretty good eh?  So why am I worried?  Well I'm anticipating that once he's gotten the lead work refined to the point at which we are proud of him,  that he'll immediately rebel and turn into a 4x4 furry tow machine like his predecessor.

So, the question is,  to those who've already gone through this:  What are the warning signs,  and what tricks work to outsmart a crafty cocker,  and keep him broadly on the straight and narrow?

[ips]

Hi guys,

I was just reading about the tribulations that the teenage Jett is inflicting on his slaves.  Rather than divert that thread I'm starting this one as I have a worry.

Barnaby is now coming up to 7 months old.  In the last few months we've opened a business in our local town and he's been coming into work with use every day.  This entails several walks each day on-lead.  This afternoon as I walked him back to the car,  I realised just how well he is doing.  For the most part its loose lead,  and if he starts to pull a small tug on the lead to remind him, a click of the tongue, or the command heel mostly corrects it.  He's now getting to understand that crossing roads requires a sit and wait until given permission to cross.

Pretty good eh?  So why am I worried?  Well I'm anticipating that once he's gotten the lead work refined to the point at which we are proud of him,  that he'll immediately rebel and turn into a 4x4 furry tow machine like his predecessor.

So, the question is,  to those who've already gone through this:  What are the warning signs,  and what tricks work to outsmart a crafty cocker,  and keep him broadly on the straight and narrow?

Don't give em an inch

[bizzylizzy]

  well done Barnaby!!!

Sounds like you're doing a pretty good job so far! I'd say its probably just a matter of  diligence and never allowing him to get away with pulling at all. I get the impression you're a pretty relaxed sort of person though and that you're intune with Barnaby (?), that's probably the secret, so you're best strategy is probably just carrying on as normal!! 
Keep us posted!

[TheAdventuresofBarnaby]

Is there trouble ahead do you think?

I do try to take a relaxed approach,  but as you say IPS,  I also try to be consistently pedantic in what's expected from him.

The sitting before crossing a road has been quite a battle of wills, and gotten a few laughs from the locals, but is being won out just by my refusing to let him cross until the sit,  wait and release sequence has been completed.  Cockers might be crafty and manipulative but their weak point is impatience I think.

[bizzylizzy]

Is there trouble ahead do you think?

I do try to take a relaxed approach,  but as you say IPS,  I also try to be consistently pedantic in what's expected from him.

The sitting before crossing a road has been quite a battle of wills, and gotten a few laughs from the locals, but is being won out just by my refusing to let him cross until the sit,  wait and release sequence has been completed.  Cockers might be crafty and manipulative but their weak point is impatience I think.

I insisted on a sit before crossing the road from day one and we practise it everywhere and everytime. On roads which we cross regularly, Humphrey now sits automatically, although I think that could be just association of habit/place, whether he's grasped the idea of footpath vs. road, I'm not quite sure. I also insist on a stop/sit when cars and tractors go past and that he does now do automatically, often noticing an approaching vehicle before I do. I just regularly throw in stops and sits during walks anyway as a matter if course, it just keeps Humph' on his toes and, I like to think, a bit more focussed on where I am! I think that at the end of the day, the training just never stops, they seem to forget things very quickly and things that aren't practised on a daily basis seem to be conveniently forgotten!!

[ips]

Exactly same as bizzylizzie, I insist on a sit before crossing a road and insist in a sit I a car comes past, the lane we walk has no path she knows when a car comes to sit on the grass verge (she is usually off lead) and offers this behaviour sometimes before I am even aware of the car approaching.
Sounds like you have done a great job Barnaby 👍
All I can add is that it seems to me that loose lead like many trained behaviour's require constant and consistent maintenance. A bit like a car, once its running perfectly it requires maintenance from time to time in order to keep it that way, also wheels can fall off and will require putting back on 😉

[TheAdventuresofBarnaby]

The automatic sit and wait when cars and tractors are passing is a very good idea.  I hadn't considered this,  but its a very good tactic indeed.  We'll be starting on this from this evening.

A question though.... how does it work when you ar in town?  Does he know the contextual difference between town and country,  only sitting to the sound of approaching traffic when in the country???

Barnaby hadn't really much experience of pavements or what they are for until just a month or so ago.  He's doing fine,  I just want it to stay that way.

[TheAdventuresofBarnaby]

Exactly same as bizzylizzie, I insist on a sit before crossing a road and insist in a sit I a car comes past, the lane we walk has no path she knows when a car comes to sit on the grass verge (she is usually off lead) and offers this behaviour sometimes before I am even aware of the car approaching.
Sounds like you have done a great job Barnaby 👍
All I can add is that it seems to me that loose lead like many trained behaviour's require constant and consistent maintenance. A bit like a car, once its running perfectly it requires maintenance from time to time in order to keep it that way, also wheels can fall off and will require putting back on 😉

Good morning Ian.  I remember you writing that Eze had gotten into the habit of self releasing after a vehicle had passed.  I failed to pick up on her having equally automatically sat upon its approach.  As per last reply to Jayne,  this is a very good tactic for keeping them safe and we'll be starting training on it right away.

Master B must have read what I wrote yesterday as today he pilled like a train all the way from the car to the office:-(  Typical!  Hopefully he'll be back to normal when we go out for his constitutional a little later this morning!

[bmthmark]

Wow it sounds like you are doing great with young Barnaby (I wish Jett was as good as him). Strangely enough Jett use to be very well behaved and its only recently he started causing us chaos. He has always pulled, but over the last couple of weeks he has stepped up his pulling power (probably because he is naturally getting stronger). Unfortunately I didn't see any signs and looking back I still can't pinpoint when he changed. One of my regrets is giving up on the pulling, but I am now motivated to change this and will crack it.

I can't offer any advice as i'm currently struggling with my little monster   . But from reading your post I doubt you will have any issues - good luck

[bizzylizzy]

The automatic sit and wait when cars and tractors are passing is a very good idea.  I hadn't considered this,  but its a very good tactic indeed.  We'll be starting on this from this evening.

A question though.... how does it work when you ar in town?  Does he know the contextual difference between town and country,  only sitting to the sound of approaching traffic when in the country???

Barnaby hadn't really much experience of pavements or what they are for until just a month or so ago.  He's doing fine,  I just want it to stay that way.

To be quite honest its hard to say, we're very rarely in town and when we are he's on a lead anyway so he wouldn't stop of his own accord. I don't know if you encounter riders where you are but I was particularly relieved recently when Humphrey had stopped and sat as a young girl on a horse approached me from behind (Humphrey was up front) and I hadn't realized she was there. I always have a horror of a horse shying and its rider being thrown, so he got a BIG reward for that!  . 

[ips]

Exactly same as bizzylizzie, I insist on a sit before crossing a road and insist in a sit I a car comes past, the lane we walk has no path she knows when a car comes to sit on the grass verge (she is usually off lead) and offers this behaviour sometimes before I am even aware of the car approaching.
Sounds like you have done a great job Barnaby 👍
All I can add is that it seems to me that loose lead like many trained behaviour's require constant and consistent maintenance. A bit like a car, once its running perfectly it requires maintenance from time to time in order to keep it that way, also wheels can fall off and will require putting back on 😉

Good morning Ian.  I remember you writing that Eze had gotten into the habit of self releasing after a vehicle had passed.  I failed to pick up on her having equally automatically sat upon its approach.  As per last reply to Jayne,  this is a very good tactic for keeping them safe and we'll be starting training on it right away.

Master B must have read what I wrote yesterday as today he pilled like a train all the way from the car to the office:-(  Typical!  Hopefully he'll be back to normal when we go out for his constitutional a little later this morning!

Morning jon
Yes your right, I think it was my fault. She has always been good at getting onto the verge when a vehicle came past, it wasn't really trained as such it was purely a learned behaviour. My failing was in moving off without any release command as soon as the vehicle passed. This became a release command in her mind but was easy to fix once I realised the errorof my ways I just blew a sit whistle or gave the "wait" command for a few seconds after vehicle had passed. She is a quick learner at most things. Strangely she seems to know that it only counts when were on a road off lead, on lead in town or walking on a main road she just carries on walking. 😁

[TheAdventuresofBarnaby]

Wow it sounds like you are doing great with young Barnaby (I wish Jett was as good as him). Strangely enough Jett use to be very well behaved and its only recently he started causing us chaos. He has always pulled, but over the last couple of weeks he has stepped up his pulling power (probably because he is naturally getting stronger). Unfortunately I didn't see any signs and looking back I still can't pinpoint when he changed. One of my regrets is giving up on the pulling, but I am now motivated to change this and will crack it.

I can't offer any advice as i'm currently struggling with my little monster   . But from reading your post I doubt you will have any issues - good luck

Our old Cocker,  Betty was a puller.  Some fool told us that using a harness would stop the pulling.  Ha ha,  it just gave her better weight distribution across her chest rather than through the strangling collar.  Result: Pulling was harder than ever.  Once when left tied to a steel cycle rack outside a shop, she managed to drag the damned thing half way into the road!  She was also a very cunning puller.  her favourite game in winter was to wait until whoever was unfortunate enough to be waling her was on sheet ice,  and the she'd randomly take off like a bullet.  the game was more or less successful depending on how hard the handler fell!

Barnaby has inherited that same harness,  but so far sensitive use of the loose lead is mostly keeping him in order.

Update on this morning's constitutional:  He was perfectly behaved. And again this afternoon,  my friend's daughter took him for a walk and again he was good. 

But I will remain vigilant for any signs of wilful disobedience!

[TheAdventuresofBarnaby]

To be quite honest its hard to say, we're very rarely in town and when we are he's on a lead anyway so he wouldn't stop of his own accord. I don't know if you encounter riders where you are but I was particularly relieved recently when Humphrey had stopped and sat as a young girl on a horse approached me from behind (Humphrey was up front) and I hadn't realized she was there. I always have a horror of a horse shying and its rider being thrown, so he got a BIG reward for that!  . 
[/quote]

No,  I've never seen a horse on the lane where we live, nor any in the surrounding area.  This is a great pity as this was historically a famous horse rearing area.  The biggest things we encounter are cows.  He originally found them irresistibly interesting until a whole herd of bullocks decided to chase him off their patch.  He's now a lot more circumspect in their presence:-)

I think if he encountered a horse and rider he'd for sure stay silent ( he always does),  but at current level of training he'd probably go for his usual exuberant greeting technique.  That could be a problem.

[TheAdventuresofBarnaby]

Morning jon
Yes your right, I think it was my fault. She has always been good at getting onto the verge when a vehicle came past, it wasn't really trained as such it was purely a learned behaviour. My failing was in moving off without any release command as soon as the vehicle passed. This became a release command in her mind but was easy to fix once I realised the errorof my ways I just blew a sit whistle or gave the "wait" command for a few seconds after vehicle had passed. She is a quick learner at most things. Strangely she seems to know that it only counts when were on a road off lead, on lead in town or walking on a main road she just carries on walking. 😁
[/quote]

Easily done my friend.  I think the issue is that a Cocker's cognition is considerably different from our own.  They seem to have a special predictive intelligence,  as shown by Eze who save you the trouble of giving her a release command,  that you would otherwise have done as soon as the car had passed (Cocker thinks" of course,  why would you not??")

I'm also coming to the realisation that Cockers are like Frenchmen:  they understand that rules are needed, they understand and agree with the rules that are imposed,  but they see their abeyance as obligatory to everyone else,  but as a matter of individual interpretation for them personally,  and the interpretation depends on mood in the case of the Frenchman,  and on contextual setting  for the Cocker.

With that in mind,  the implication is that French Cockers must be quite a challenge to train!
 

[bizzylizzy]

Morning jon
Yes your right, I think it was my fault. She has always been good at getting onto the verge when a vehicle came past, it wasn't really trained as such it was purely a learned behaviour. My failing was in moving off without any release command as soon as the vehicle passed. This became a release command in her mind but was easy to fix once I realised the errorof my ways I just blew a sit whistle or gave the "wait" command for a few seconds after vehicle had passed. She is a quick learner at most things. Strangely she seems to know that it only counts when were on a road off lead, on lead in town or walking on a main road she just carries on walking. 😁

Easily done my friend.  I think the issue is that a Cocker's cognition is considerably different from our own.  They seem to have a special predictive intelligence,  as shown by Eze who save you the trouble of giving her a release command,  that you would otherwise have done as soon as the car had passed (Cocker thinks" of course,  why would you not??")

I'm also coming to the realisation that Cockers are like Frenchmen:  they understand that rules are needed, they understand and agree with the rules that are imposed,  but they see their abeyance as obligatory to everyone else,  but as a matter of individual interpretation for them personally,  and the interpretation depends on mood in the case of the Frenchman,  and on contextual setting  for the Cocker.

With that in mind,  the implication is that French Cockers must be quite a challenge to train!
[/quote]

    as opposed to a German cocker who ofcourse would adhere precisly to the rules and make sure all the others did aswell!!