Author Topic: Hunting instinct driving me mad!!!!  (Read 2115 times)

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Offline lescef

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Re: Hunting instinct driving me mad!!!!
« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2017, 07:31:04 PM »
I've read a few articles recently about this. One is a dog trainer who lives on a farm and  she couldn't stop her collie wanting to herd the sheep! She said much the same thing - you have to be more interesting.  >:(
I have this problem with Maddie - maybe my fault for allowing too much freedom early on or maybe it's just her genetic make up.
Keeping her attention off lead and close to us is hard work. She's not interested in balls so I throw treats to find, do basic obedience, 'touch' the hand then roll over, walk 'close' then throw one treat ahead then bring her close again, practice coming to the whistle. All this has to be food rewarded and as soon as I stop she's off in sniffing mode and too far away from me. She really wouldn't care if I went home and left her there :005:
 Bramble on the other hand, rarely goes far away, but having learned the hard way, we briing her back if she does start to stray.
Lesley, Maddie and Bramble

Offline ips

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Re: Hunting instinct driving me mad!!!!
« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2017, 07:45:03 PM »
I am not posting this to put myself up as any kind of expert which I most certainly am not. I am posting this vid to show the behaviour that is absolutely normal for eze and Imo as a result of training in the way outlined in earlier post as in everything good starts or happens at my feet. The video entitled free running (for want of a better title) shows a walk in an unfamiliar wood whilst on holiday about a month ago. She never goes far she constantly checks in to see if anything fun is about to happen "at my feet"

Note
Whilst writing this I realised that eze has of course been trained to be steady to flush and steady to feather or fur in the open therefore she will only really hunt on command and will ignore anything unless its in cover. This obviously helps the situation enormously as I suspect if dogs have not been trained as such then the urge to hunt regardless must be a strong urge to overcome. Anyway here goes.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3YKBpZft0Sg
Muddling along in the hope that one day it all makes sense.

Offline ips

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Re: Hunting instinct driving me mad!!!!
« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2017, 07:48:38 PM »
I've read a few articles recently about this. One is a dog trainer who lives on a farm and  she couldn't stop her collie wanting to herd the sheep! She said much the same thing - you have to be more interesting.  >:(
I have this problem with Maddie - maybe my fault for allowing too much freedom early on or maybe it's just her genetic make up.
Keeping her attention off lead and close to us is hard work. She's not interested in balls so I throw treats to find, do basic obedience, 'touch' the hand then roll over, walk 'close' then throw one treat ahead then bring her close again, practice coming to the whistle. All this has to be food rewarded and as soon as I stop she's off in sniffing mode and too far away from me. She really wouldn't care if I went home and left her there :005:
 Bramble on the other hand, rarely goes far away, but having learned the hard way, we briing her back if she does start to stray.

So what did you do differently with bramble ? Or do you think its just different dog personality's?
Muddling along in the hope that one day it all makes sense.

Offline lescef

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Re: Hunting instinct driving me mad!!!!
« Reply #18 on: August 20, 2017, 08:33:23 PM »
I think much of it is  personality. Maddie is very independent and tends to do things only on her terms, whereas Bramble wants to be with you . Whether I have contributed to this.... I  don't know.  I have had four spaniels now and Maddie is the only one that roams!

Interesting video. Are you rewarding her when she comes to your feet? If so with what?
I have to say when we walk in unknown places, Maddie will turn and check in, but she's always just a bit too far ahead for my liking
Lesley, Maddie and Bramble

Offline ips

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Re: Hunting instinct driving me mad!!!!
« Reply #19 on: August 20, 2017, 09:06:56 PM »
I reward with a "good girl" or sending her to hunt. As I say I think dogs are a bit thick (my one anyway 😁) she will stop or recall for the reward of being allowed to continue to do what she was effectively doing before  I stopped her from doing so 😊

Edit
I capture every "look" with a "good girl" she doesn't get a "good girl" unless she checks in.
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Offline Londongirl

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Re: Hunting instinct driving me mad!!!!
« Reply #20 on: August 20, 2017, 09:18:56 PM »
I reward with a "good girl" or sending her to hunt. As I say I think dogs are a bit thick (my one anyway 😁) she will stop or recall for the reward of being allowed to continue to do what she was effectively doing before  I stopped her from doing so 😊


If you follow Susan Garrett's 'It's Yer Choice' training, she points out that permissions are highly rewarding to dogs - they produce a big dopamine hit in the dog's brain that they also get when they make a choice to do something (rather than doing it because they are told). There's a strong chemical reinforcer in permissions. Your dog's not stupid, just responding to her brain chemistry.

My dog, however, is as dumb as a bag of spanners.
Rachael (me) and Henry (him)


Offline ips

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Re: Hunting instinct driving me mad!!!!
« Reply #21 on: August 20, 2017, 09:31:12 PM »
Not heard of her but will google her 😁
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Offline bizzylizzy

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Re: Hunting instinct driving me mad!!!!
« Reply #22 on: August 20, 2017, 10:01:03 PM »
I reward with a "good girl" or sending her to hunt. As I say I think dogs are a bit thick (my one anyway 😁) she will stop or recall for the reward of being allowed to continue to do what she was effectively doing before  I stopped her from doing so 😊


If you follow Susan Garrett's 'It's Yer Choice' training, she points out that permissions are highly rewarding to dogs - they produce a big dopamine hit in the dog's brain that they also get when they make a choice to do something (rather than doing it because they are told). There's a strong chemical reinforcer in permissions. Your dog's not stupid, just responding to her brain chemistry.

My dog, however, is as dumb as a bag of spanners.

Fancy saying that about him, and on his birthday aswell!   :lol2:

Offline juju

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Re: Hunting instinct driving me mad!!!!
« Reply #23 on: August 21, 2017, 08:08:53 AM »
My dog Izzy is now five and would be continually off on a scent. She entered my life like an exocet missile. As a puppy, whilst sociable with other dogs, she would play for a minute or two and then head off after anything. I had the advantage of being a sole owner with time to spend on training. My approach was to be consistent and try everything that would help in her training and development. I was one of those sad owners googling 'adolescence' to see if it lasted into a dog's third year!  When Izzy was 11 months I discovered a gun dog trainer nearby. We went for 1 to 1 lessons (about 12 lessons over 18 months) Izzy didn't make it to his group lessons as she swiftly disappeared when off a line! What the sessions did give me were the tools to enable me to manage her walks. She proved to be a quick learner and I was able to carry on where the lessons left off. I taught her the turn whistle and stopping to a whistle having picked up lots of tips on the Internet. She can do a real variety of retrieves and absolutely loves it all. I, obviously, have to choose our walk areas (I don't do any gun dog work in our local recreation ground, she just has a run round in there and loves carrying a ball round.) I use an Ancol side attaching harness which you can clip any length of line or lead to. About 50 feet is the longest length I use. I have met so many dog owners whose dogs are only ever on a short lead because they can't let them go and I used to beat myself up thinking I was failing my dog. Then I realised that I could manage the situation and still give Izzy exciting, interesting walks.
                Julia

Offline ips

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Re: Hunting instinct driving me mad!!!!
« Reply #24 on: August 21, 2017, 08:45:04 AM »
Sort of on the same topic.
I have found that rather than a recall (as such) a verbal "come" or "here" or various get here type shouts with added expletives that a "this way" works considerably better. I think its for the same reason that my girl responds much better to a turn whistle than a recall and that is because "turn" and "this way" do not signal the end of something they are merely verbal cues to do the same thing or something else but in a different direction, therefore compliance becomes an exciting thing. When I give a "this way" she looks at me whilst running towards me as if to say "what have you found for me to do now dad, were is it, what is it"
Don't know if that makes any sense or if its any help to anyone, its just what I have found with eze.
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Offline theoldfella

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Re: Hunting instinct driving me mad!!!!
« Reply #25 on: August 21, 2017, 06:56:03 PM »
More great advice and ideas, thanks.

Tango sounds very much like Maddie, I really dont think he'd care if I went home while he is exploring.

Agree about the use of "this way" rather than "come, or here",  it does seem to get a bit more of a reaction.

Not sure if it was the correct thing to do but went out on a longish (about 15ft) lead today and tried the treats thrown around me - it did keep his attention but I dont really know how much of that was really just down to the lead stopping him running off. I also stopped occasionally en route and did some sit, stay, watch commands to vary things. Then reached one of the more open wooded areas where we normally play ball and as he had been pretty good up til then I made the mistake of unclipping the lead but, after just two throws, you guessed it...... straight off into the undergrowth with the ball still in his mouth. To be fair, I just stood still and kept quiet and he came back (sans ball) to check within a couple of minutes - before going off again once he saw me - but I had him back on the lead after a few more minutes and so to home. I have to say he looked pretty fed up when we got back and has been subdued all day, so I guess he's probably quite confused!

Clearly got an awful lot of work to do and bad habits to correct (me and tango).