Hamish Bit Me

[Magic Star]

I wonder if his steriod treatment is the root of the aggression problem?

Although his treatment is necessary I have read that in some very rare cases the glucocorticoids may unmask aggressive or unpredicable behaviours in dogs.

[snapback]181342[/snapback]

Interesting theory Karen, as steroids can have the same affect on humans so there could well be something in that

[miche]

Remember that Gwen Bailey's advice is aimed at puppy owners - the shock tactic she recommends may not be appropriate when you are talking about an adult or adolescent dog and could actually cause an escalation in the aggression (a dog reacting aggressively could become even more aggressive when faced with a perceived threat like a human lunging towards them). I think when an adult dog has bitten a human, then it's always best to seek professional advice from an experienced trainer/behaviourist as it can be dangerous to give advice over the internet as what may be appropriate for one dog may not be appropriate for another (as there are so many causes of aggression).

Jane

[snapback]181233[/snapback]

I will bear this in mind as Mikey is now 9 months.  When I used it with my last dog (border collie) he was only a pup and bit the cat on the head.  He never ever went for anyone or anything again.

Mikey is probably getting pushy because of his age, and I would imagine that Hamish is too if he is 1, but Mikey is black, and as Jools said more solid's are prone to aggression - is this the case in working lines or just show?

Shona I am sure that Hamish doesn't have an aggression problem though, he's probably like Mikey and just pushing his luck.

[PennyB]

Remember that Gwen Bailey's advice is aimed at puppy owners - the shock tactic she recommends may not be appropriate when you are talking about an adult or adolescent dog and could actually cause an escalation in the aggression (a dog reacting aggressively could become even more aggressive when faced with a perceived threat like a human lunging towards them). I think when an adult dog has bitten a human, then it's always best to seek professional advice from an experienced trainer/behaviourist as it can be dangerous to give advice over the internet as what may be appropriate for one dog may not be appropriate for another (as there are so many causes of aggression).

Jane

[snapback]181233[/snapback]

I will bear this in mind as Mikey is now 9 months.  When I used it with my last dog (border collie) he was only a pup and bit the cat on the head.  He never ever went for anyone or anything again.

Mikey is probably getting pushy because of his age, and I would imagine that Hamish is too if he is 1, but Mikey is black, and as Jools said more solid's are prone to aggression - is this the case in working lines or just show?

Shona I am sure that Hamish doesn't have an aggression problem though, he's probably like Mikey and just pushing his luck.

[snapback]181348[/snapback]

I do think colour has nothing to with this as if we had two dogs of differing breeds we would not be having this discussion and it just becomes a ridiculous label to fall back on time and time again on this board when other things should be looked into.

While I can only 2nd guess young males can resort to this behaviour just because they're young and male (I've seen it so many times on the park where young males grew up as pups and then fell out once they got older, now I know neither can be together as any play that's initiated turns to full blown fights and heaven help anyone who gets in the way).

I agree with whats been said by Penel and Jane that this problem should be seen by a professional if help is what's needed here.

[shonajoy]

best to seek professional advice from an experienced trainer/behaviourist as it can be dangerous to give advice over the internet as what may be appropriate for one dog may not be appropriate for another (as there are so many causes of aggression).

Jane

[snapback]181233[/snapback]

totally agree - especially with his health issues too - is he ok at the moment Shona ?

[snapback]181235[/snapback]

Yes, he's fine health wise, as far as I'm aware - he saw his vet 2 weks ago and doing well.

[shonajoy]

I wonder if his steriod treatment is the root of the aggression problem?

Although his treatment is necessary I have read that in some very rare cases the glucocorticoids may unmask aggressive or unpredicable behaviours in dogs.

[snapback]181342[/snapback]

I have wondered that in the past, but h's ben off thm now totally for eight weks, the longst time ever for him.

[crazyspaniels]

well you know my theory - dangly bits, one of your boys has got to lose them, Hamish has reached the age where he wants to challenge Indie and with them both being entire it was more than likely going to cause an issue?
Tell the Hamster to pack it in or I'll send Bilbo round to put him in his place.
Dobbie is having the snip soon, all of my boys get it done and they never notice.

[Penel]

I was just going to say - he's been off the preds for a while now... if he was still on them, then I'd say they could play a part in it - as Saffy was twice aggressive towards Tilly when she was on high dose steroids - that was resource guarding.... it is not likely that the previous steroid use is causing Hamish's aggression though.... also in humans its anabolic steroids - not glucocorticoids - that usually cause the problems with aggression.
I'm afraid I agree with Freya - castration could well help him.  sorry Ham.

[PennyB]

I'm afraid I agree with Freya - castration could well help him.   sorry Ham.

[snapback]181496[/snapback]

Me too!

[silkstocking]

Have only just caught up with this. Sorry to read you are having problems with Hamish Shona

 I agree about the castration.

 The only thing I will say is, that, the dog I told you about before in the previous thread about Indie and Hamish fighting was castrasted and still showed similiar behaviour to Hamish is showing, including the biting but his problems run very deep, so I guess what I'm trying to say is maybe castration isn't always the answer although for Hamish it could be, its gotta be worth a try I think though.

You can borrow Nance if you like , she has an UNCANNY way of putting dogs in their place, Milo and stud dogs alike, she's not picky!! One word from her and thats them told as small as she is!

Seriously though its a difficult one Shona, I really feel for you. Sending you and the dogs lots of love

Good Luck xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[shonajoy]

well you know my theory - dangly bits, one of your boys has got to lose them, Hamish has reached the age where he wants to challenge Indie and with them both being entire it was more than likely going to cause an issue?
Tell the Hamster to pack it in or I'll send Bilbo round to put him in his place.
Dobbie is having the snip soon, all of my boys get it done and they never notice.

[snapback]181478[/snapback]

I'm leaning towards it now, after today. I was having a lie down, and he came and lay on my chst, which he oftn does. Indie was asleep on the floor, oblivious. Suddenly, Hamish started this deep low growl, and put his face right nxt to mine! I stood up, ignored him, and said nothing, but it was scary.

I'm going to speak to his vet tomorrow, and see when she can do it. I want her to, as she knows him so well., and his health issues. I really rally don't want to, but this can't go on. The dog trainer said at training, she'd b wary of castrating him as he's such a nervy dog - do you think there's anything in that?

[shonajoy]

I was just going to say - he's been off the preds for a while now... if he was still on them, then I'd say they could play a part in it - as Saffy was twice aggressive towards Tilly when she was on high dose steroids - that was resource guarding.... it is not likely that the previous steroid use is causing Hamish's aggression though.... also in humans its anabolic steroids - not glucocorticoids - that usually cause the problems with aggression.
I'm afraid I agree with Freya - castration could well help him.   sorry Ham.

[snapback]181496[/snapback]

He was only on 5mg once a day for ages before coming off them too. Poor Ham, it's looking like the snip.

[*Jay*]

Castrating nervous or anxious dogs can sometimes make them even more so, which is why I won't have Dallas done. But obviously if you throw behavioural problems into the equation, then its not going to be quite so straightforward a decision.

[shonajoy]

Castrating nervous or anxious dogs can sometimes make them even more so, which is why I won't have Dallas done. But obviously if you throw behavioural problems into the equation, then its not going to be quite so straightforward a decision.

[snapback]182216[/snapback]

That's what the trainer said. God I'm confused now! I'll ned to take a bit of time and do more research, and speak to his trainr again on Monday.

Thanks Gill. He's been trying to hump Indi as well, but not furniture or us, just Indie.

[crazyspaniels]

I think he isn't trying to dominate you, the bite was probably an accident, but more trying to be top dog to Indie, and if they were mine I would get Indie nuetered and then allow Hamish to become top dog over Indie, which is what I see as the problem, if you demote Indie it will make life easier for all as Indie does seem to be getting the lions share of abuse. This is very common and in fact its something I mentioned when you got Ham as alot of young males, if left intact, will try and take over as top dog. Hence why all my boys are neutered so that I can control the rankings in the house - Willow is always the boss

[Pammy]

I really feel for you Shona, this is such a tough one. You could always give the chemical castration a go to see what effect it has. That's the Tardak injection which mimics the physical proceedure.

I tried it with Jasper when he was a pain and it made no difference - hence removing his bits would not do what we hopes for.

I agree with Jane though in that you need a one to one behaviourist session with Hamish as it's probably got a lot to do with the way you interact with him.

We find Jasper responds really well to going out more and being able to expend more energy. He is then much calmer when in the house and leaves Buddy alone. We can see his attitude and behaviour change in the winter months when they don't get out as much as they do in the summer.