A BARF Diary.

[Penel]

Lola still shakes her food to kill it before she eats it  and she's the most gentle of all my dogs !

[happydog]

It's been hot here today. I took Ferns chicken wings out of the freezer early enough to defrost naturally, or so I thought. I often have to resort to bunging the plastic bag in hot water to defrost them quickly at the last minute .
Anyway they were still slightly frozen tonight but she had them anyway and really seemed to enjoy her chicken ice lollies .

[happydog]

Sorry to bring it all back to poo again! BARF does this to you.

This is just something I have noticed over the past few months.

Fern is an active cocker and has little or no trouble with her poos since going on to BARF. They are fewer, smaller and firmer than they were prior to BARF and multicoloured - according to what I have given her the day before. Mostly they dry out white and crumble away to nothing in a day or two unless I have overdosed her on the veggies and fruit.

She has a similar amount and type of bone content most days. However, if I find I am unable to walk her on the odd day, she can have a bit of trouble going the next day and performs amidst the odd squeak (she is a bit of a squeaker, she squeaks when she falls over when running flat out  but carries on straight afterwards so I don't pay a lot of attention to it now).

Now she is either holding on until her walk- which she doesn't get and so everything becomes more compacted, or the excercise itself stimulates her into performing.

It made me wonder about those who feed BARF to less active dogs, whether it be from temporary illness/incapacity or age. Do you have any problems and do you adjust meat/bone/veg ratios to compensate, if so how? Is BARF perhaps best for active dogs only  ?

Just wondering  .

[Rhona W]

I know with my boys exercise stimulates them into performing. And if we go on a really exciting walk, they can go up to 5 times. 

Is it possible on the days you can't walk Fern, for you to just go for a quick 5 minute walk up the street to get her to perform so she's not bunged up the next day? 
Casper went through a phase where he was unsettled in the evening and would whine a lot. So we took him up and down the road and he could go 3 times in 10 minutes.

[happydog]

Is it possible on the days you can't walk Fern, for you to just go for a quick 5 minute walk up the street to get her to perform so she's not bunged up the next day? 

    I can't remember if she has ever performed on a lead, I don't think she has, ever. She is so rarely on a lead. Our walks are offlead farmland ones where she is non-stop 90mph most of the time  , so a 5 minute onlead walk probably wouldn't do the trick.
 
We have a fairly long garden and she will use it if she has to, but she does tend to hang on a bit longer  .

I just have to remember to play a lot of retrieve or chase games if I dont manage to walk her and get her charging around. That's easier said than done though, 'cos if I don't have time to walk her then I don't have time for a half hour game  . It doesn't happen that often , but I thought it worth a mention though in case other BARF feeders find a similar problem.

[pinkcarys]

I've just sat here and read all 17 pages, it's fascinating stuff!  Thanks!

Just a few questions if you don't mind?

How does it compare cost wise to feeding kibble?  We would probably feed Burns as our choice of kibble.  This is one of my OH's concerns as he's the one who brings in the money! 

Would we start introducing BARF as soon as Griffin comes home (gradually of course  ) or would we wait until he's older and has a stronger immune system and jaws?

Now, I've got a feeling that I might be laughed at due to some of the comments that have been written earlier about uninformed people suggesting BARF could turn them wild.  Would the smell and taste of the rabbit I might feed be the same as the smell of the rabbits I have as pets?  I'm planning on working hard with the puppy and rabbits so that they are happy around each other, but I'm having visions of the rabbits smelling of hoping versions of Griffins dinner!  In all honesty, I'm not sure I could feed rabbit but I'd still be interested to know.

Thank you! 

[Cob-Web]

Would the smell and taste of the rabbit I might feed be the same as the smell of the rabbits I have as pets?  I'm planning on working hard with the puppy and rabbits so that they are happy around each other, but I'm having visions of the rabbits smelling of hoping versions of Griffins dinner!  In all honesty, I'm not sure I could feed rabbit but I'd still be interested to know.

I think there are members who feed their working gundogs rabbit "in their jackets" and they still retrieve game with no problems; I think most dogs can distinguish between dinner and pets.....as long as you supervise, of course 

Cost varies from place to place - I worked out that a pre-packed raw diet (from Prize Choice, for instance) works out about the same as a good quality kibble like Burns - but if you can befriend a good butcher, then you may find it significantly cheaper  I pay £6 for three rabbits which is approx 18 meals worth for Molo, but I pay nothing for them if I can get them freshly shot  I paid £2 this morning for approx 20 meaty lamb bones 

[happydog]

How does it compare cost wise to feeding kibble?  We would probably feed Burns as our choice of kibble.  This is one of my OH's concerns as he's the one who brings in the money! 

You know from reading the thread that Fern mainly gets Prize Choice AMP lamb/chicken/beef/rabbit/tripe  mince, heart/liver/beef chunks (not just for the convenience, but because most types contain ground bone), home whizzed veggies and 2 chicken wings a day(from the supermarket). This works out at about 50p/day. I've no idea what kibble costs as I've never fed it.

Would we start introducing BARF as soon as Griffin comes home (gradually of course  ) or would we wait until he's older and has a stronger immune system and jaws?

I've never fed a pup BARF so I'm probably not the best person to answer, but I know there are breeders who wean pups straight on to BARF so I see no reason why you should wait. It's good to supervise the bones for a while though. Start with something 'easy' like small chicken wings and bash them first, with a rolling pin to soften the bones until they get used to it. When they are teething you might find they go off it for a while(the bones not the raw meat), but it wont harm for a while if they just have mince.

[pinkcarys]

How does it compare cost wise to feeding kibble?  We would probably feed Burns as our choice of kibble.  This is one of my OH's concerns as he's the one who brings in the money! 

You know from reading the thread that Fern mainly gets Prize Choice AMP lamb/chicken/beef/rabbit/tripe  mince, heart/liver/beef chunks (not just for the convenience, but because most types contain ground bone), home whizzed veggies and 2 chicken wings a day(from the supermarket). This works out at about 50p/day. I've no idea what kibble costs as I've never fed it.

Well, we've worked out that Burns would work out about 90p a day so that will work in BARFS favour when it comes to talking to OH 

The other thing I was wondering, what do you do when you have to get someone else in for the dog, or they are in kennels?  I take it that kennels wouldn't do this?  And I'm not convinced my sister would be willing to do all this.  Can you prepare in advance and just leave it to be given?

[happydog]

The other thing I was wondering, what do you do when you have to get someone else in for the dog, or they are in kennels?  I take it that kennels wouldn't do this?  And I'm not convinced my sister would be willing to do all this.  Can you prepare in advance and just leave it to be given?

To begin with, when I was weighing everything, I used to prepare single days meals (I only feed once a day)-mince and veggies, and put them in small plastic bags in the freezer. The chicken wings I now take out of the multi packs, lay them on a baking tray and fast freeze them before putting them in a carrier bag in the freezer, otherwise you end up with 14 wings all frozen together  ! It's not much trouble to take a bag and a couple of wings out in the morning ready for the evenings meal. You could even use rigid plastic containers to do this. Warning though, it does take up a lot of freezer space. We share our upright freezer but some people here have bought a second one just for their dogs  .

If you also occasionally feed tinned sardines/raw egg/veggies, then for a couple of days this would be fine if you have a squeamish sister. With kennels I think it would depend on the kennel. If they have freezer space they might be willing, otherwise you could always relent for a few days and ask them to feed tinned-Butchers/kibble or something like that. Not ideal, but a few days wont do too much harm.

[Cob-Web]

If you also occasionally feed tinned sardines/raw egg/veggies, then for a couple of days this would be fine if you have a squeamish sister. With kennels I think it would depend on the kennel. If they have freezer space they might be willing, otherwise you could always relent for a few days and ask them to feed tinned-Butchers/kibble or something like that. Not ideal, but a few days wont do too much harm.

I wouldn't ask a kennels to feed raw - especially bon'y meals, as I can't expect them to give him the same level of supervision as I do while he is eating 

I have always made sure that Molo will still eat kibble, so that if I have to leave him in kennels, then he won't starve  At the moment I am having sourcing problems for raw food, so I am looking to see if I can find an Autarky stockist locally; in the past I have used Burns, too 

[Joules]

I think ClaireP4 fed Zorro on BARF just about from the start so she would be able to help.

Re: what to feed when you go away and leave dog with someone else - I haven't yet done it but I would just go back to feeding a mix one of the good kibbles (JWB, Arden Grange, Burns etc) with Naturediet which is a wet food. I prefer this to a totally dry diet but I am sure the kibble on its own would be fine for a while.  Otherwise, as Happydog says you could just freeze meal sized portions of mince with the veg mixed in so all she would have to do is defrost it and put it in the bowl.  If your sis is squeamish I would steer clear of offal and tripe for that period!  

[pinkcarys]

OK, you can add me and OH to the list this thread hais converted.  I'll say it very tentatively, whilst wringing my hands and looking at the floor, "We are going to feed Griffin BARF  "  There, I've said it! So I've got to do it now.

In all honestly, I don't think our pup is going to have to go to kennels or be looked after by anyone other than us on many occasions.  My sister is coming down fo the weekend in Septamber so we can go to a wedding but we'll leave mid morning and will be back in the evening so hopefully we can feed him.  We don't have any holidays planned or anything like that, its just one of the questions I had burning.

I do still have lots of questions. Do you think you can put up with me?  I have to admit, if I didn't have COL I wouldn't be embarking on BARF at all.  It's only knowing you guys are here that gives me the confidence. 

Anyway, questions.
CAn anyone point me towards something that explains in laymans terms about the shorter digestive tract in dogs?  I keep reading that short phrase in relation to th risk of poisoning but it never goes into it deep enough for me to be fully happy.

Claire, Zorro's Mum, please please please can I have some advice on changing a puppy over?  I know you're busy making Griffins bowl though  so I can be patient, but would be really good to hear from the voice of experience.  I can find a lot about changing adult dogs over but not puppies.  I'm also puzzled about how much to give him at what age.  Any help gratefully accepted.

Am I right that, in simple terms,  a meal would involve three stages?  The mince, the veg followed by a RMB such as chicken back?  Hang on, where does the offal fit in?  Does that get given with the mince?  Do you HAVE to give mince or can you give them enough meat by finding the raw meaty bones?  Mmmmm,  I think I'm still rather confused.

Seeing as Griffin will be our first pup, am I being too ambitious with the BARF idea?  SHould I stick with something siimpler?

I've seen one website, yes just one out of all the sites saying how wonderful it is, saying BARF is a bad thing.  One of the issues that I can't find the answer to is due to the short intenstinal tract.  SHe claims that they can get poisoned by all the bacteria in the meat, but then goes on to say that the short intestinal tract means they don't absorb all of the bacteria (contadicts hersel so not sure how seriously to take her) so the droppings from BARF dogs are higher in bacteria that's harful to humans.  The area we're in has lots of play parks and schools around, and even though I'll be picking up his poop, surely it'll leave a residue.  Am I being, as I suspect, overly worried about this point, or is this woman on to something.  I've saved the web site if any one wants to check it out.

What do you say to vets and other people who are supposedly in the know but critisise you?  I've got a feeling I can cope with other dog owners and people who are just going on instinct, but I'm worried I could be intimadated into sitching by someone like a vet.

Thanks so much for your pactience with all my questions. I've been doing so much reading on the subject but its not the same as talking to people who've done it. 

-x-

[Cob-Web]

OK, you can add me and OH to the list this thread hais converted.  I'll say it very tentatively, whilst wringing my hands and looking at the floor, "We are going to feed Griffin BARF  "  There, I've said it! So I've got to do it now.

Well done 

Am I right that, in simple terms,  a meal would involve three stages?  The mince, the veg followed by a RMB such as chicken back?  Hang on, where does the offal fit in?  Does that get given with the mince?  Do you HAVE to give mince or can you give them enough meat by finding the raw meaty bones?  Mmmmm,  I think I'm still rather confused.

Variety is the key - think in terms of a balanced diet over the course of a week, not a day.....so bones may not be on the menu every day, offal a few times a week, some fish or an egg one day.......

What do you say to vets and other people who are supposedly in the know but critisise you?  I've got a feeling I can cope with other dog owners and people who are just going on instinct, but I'm worried I could be intimadated into sitching by someone like a vet.

Ah, but vets aren't experts on pet nutrition, and so in the same way as your GP will refer you to a dietician when needed, your vet will have a very limited knowledge of the benefits/risk of raw feeding when compared to feeding a complete food - and remember that most (not all) veterinary practices have sales deals with one or more pet food manufacturers, and usually sell complete foods 


Good luck......in a few months, you'll be wondering what you were worried about, but it is daunting to begin with 

[Nicola]

Pinkcarys I would advise you to read at least one book on the subject of barf before taking the plunge, it pays to do as much research as possible before embarking on something like this. This should explain the diet and the principles behind it for you and answer most of the major questions you have. If you go onto amazon and search for books on raw feeding you should get a list of books to check out. Ian Billinghurst is one of the better known authors and has written a few books such as 'The Barf Diet: For Cats and Dogs' which I got from amazon.