Under shot jaw preclude breeding?

[*Adele*]

A lot of what has been said about game keepers and their dogs could be said about people who show their dogs as well I guess though?  Dogs that aren't foremost a pet don't have the same luxuries at the end of the day, that isn't to say they are less loved and cared for but they are there for a different reason really.

[Nicola]

ellie is from a gamekeeper and he loves his dogs. pups were not in a kennel they were reared in the house with the family. there are a lot of pet homes out there that would have an injured dog pts rather than fork out the money to heal it. there are also a lot of people now who use outdated training methods.
in fact i am now thinking of contacting ellies breeder to see if they plan a litter next year. i honestly couldn't think of anyone i would rather have a working cocker off, except maybe for kirsten(i love her dogs).ellies breeder is very very proud of his dogs. ask helen she knows them well.

That's why I didn't say 'all gamekeepers...' of course there are going to be exceptions but they will be exceptions rather than the norm amongst professional gamekeepers. There is also a difference in buying a puppy from a gamekeeper and homing one to them, pups may well be kept in the house until they go to their new homes by many while their own working dogs are kennelled. If you've got a breeder you're happy with then that's great, stick with them!

[Helen]

wherry hasn't a serious undershot jaw, tis very slight and the only thing in my mind that is an issue would be passing that on in breeding.

she is very beautiful

lyn, you could strike it lucky next year, will keep you posted

was going to say something about gamekeepers and generalisations but nicola has already clarified that one....naturally Lyn and I are very defensive about our Gamekeeper breeder - as you can see from ellie and jarv, they are incredibly timid, downtrodden, unsocialised dogs from that particular family

[lyn]

its true adele about any pet/working or show owner/breeder. you would only have to come to my house at the moment to see that.Andy has come from a home where money is no object but, at three years old he has been living in the conservatory for most of his life and is like a zombie. i personally think a life in a which he worked during the day and was kennelled at night would have been much better for him.at least there would have been some human contact and interaction. i wonder how many other pet dogs are out there now who will be under threat of being pts coz their owners want to go on holiday within the next few weeks. Andy is very lucky to be here atm its only due to my taking him in that he isn't dead and buried by now.

[Cazzie]

The reason I would not sell any pup of mine to a keeper is just like Nicola explained although as she also said all people cant be classed the same. A true keepers dogs are a tool, just like many true working dogs they are not classed as pets and are certainly not treated like pets as they are there to do a job and dont get cut much slack, some keepers put very little training in with their dogs and some use very out of date training. They are also extremely busy out of season and the dogs do not get the same work and attention, most spend days in the kennel as the keepers are busy. True Working dogs have a good life most of the time but a hard one. 

[Tasha]

There are still 'Some' old fashioned people out there but I do wish people wouldn't bundle everyone in with the same old stick by their jobs

Times are changing and I have to say its about time the general opinion did too.  I know some fantastic keepers and they do breed some lovely dogs and can afford to be choosy about which dogs they keep and breed and which they rehome to pet homes or to a gun that they know looking for a dog thats not suitable for their kennel.  The vast majority these days rehome their oldies either with rescue or a member of the shoot looking for a pet rather than shoot them which is an old fashioned way to deal with a dog and frowned upon.  The two keepers I work for regularly are great one has an oldie thats now a house pet and still comes out for the odd day and the other has rehomed his retired spaniel to a member of our shoot that likes the odd day out but wanted a family pet.

Personally I would prefer a dog to go to a working home where it will do the job that it was bred for I think sometimes we forget this is a working gundog breed.  You can always add a stipulation that at the end of its working life or if there is any reason they have to rehome it you'll as the breeder take it back.

[Helen]

I agree with Tasha, it is an antiquated view that all keepers are like that and can't be 'true' keepers unless they treat their dogs like this, and apologise to Coco for going way off topic

[Jane S]

Closing this thread now as it's gone completely off topic - discussions about gamekeepers are perhaps best posted on the Working board