Author Topic: Good Book!  (Read 3867 times)

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Offline Cob-Web

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Re: Good Book!
« Reply #15 on: December 31, 2007, 10:57:11 PM »

What he is promoting is not new or radical, it's the same old kind of training that has been going on for eons. Some of what he says is right and makes good sense, but there is quite a bit that is outdated and downright cruel.

Not outdated enough though; not enough people consider it cruel, otherwise it wouldn't be on TV as peak-time viewing "entertainment"  :-\   

Sadly, there is still a long way to go before society as a whole places the same value and respect on dogs that most COL members do :(
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Offline sarah25

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Re: Good Book!
« Reply #16 on: December 31, 2007, 11:01:31 PM »
I bet you wished you never even started this thread now Kelly  ph34r

Cant really comment because ive never seen his programme/book or even heared of him  ph34r

Offline Top Barks

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Re: Good Book!
« Reply #17 on: January 01, 2008, 09:31:53 AM »
Mark (Topbarks) quoted this a while back re Milan....................

Cheers Penny saved me dredging that up.
Put ten dog trainers in a room and they will all disagree about which way to train and indeed it is everybody to their own but it when you can read body language of dogs and have studied the subject of dog behaviour to the level these guys have done then their is really no argument for Milan.
I can't watch more than a few moments of his programmes as I end up yelling at the tv in frustration.
He don't half talk some "Cr*p in my oppinion.
If it works for you Kelly then good luck to you.
It ain't my way for sure.

Mark Sanderson BSc Hons (canine behaviour), FdSc CBT, CAP 1, CAP 2
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Re: Good Book!
« Reply #18 on: January 01, 2008, 10:16:55 AM »
Id like to meet the man and decide for myself, I have not personally witnessed anything he has done that has been cruel. I think I may have to have a look at this book just out of interest. I do like his tv programms and if he ever come to Britian, id like him to come here and sort my terrier out or maybe its me that needs sorted for not training her correctly  :005:

Offline Top Barks

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Re: Good Book!
« Reply #19 on: January 01, 2008, 11:49:50 AM »
Id like to meet the man and decide for myself, I have not personally witnessed anything he has done that has been cruel. I think I may have to have a look at this book just out of interest. I do like his tv programms and if he ever come to Britian, id like him to come here and sort my terrier out or maybe its me that needs sorted for not training her correctly  :005:

I'd also like to meet him and indeed attend one of his seminars and give him the chance to try and convince me. >:(
I think someone would either gag me or drag me out of the room. >:D
I do have an open mind though and would give the guy a fair hearing.
Why don't you book him Kelly? I'm sure there would be no end of dog trainers and behaviourists in this country who would like to question him under the spotlight. ;)
Have you ever read Coppingers book on the evolution of the domestic dog, which sort of provides evidence to blow Milan's pack theory out of the window.
True it was once taken as the way but science does not stand still and he is today rather outdated.
He does have a great publicist though as did Jan Fennel and even I thought she was great until I educated myself to a standard where I could decide otherwise.
He also has millions of dog owners as an audience who are uneducated in the subject of canine behaviour to be spoon fed his methods without having the knowledge to question what he does.
You see the results on screen but you also see results on Dog Borstal but do those results last? Do you need to keep punishing and intimidating to maintain control?
Do you want to CONTROL your dogs? The definition of dominance is "to exert a controlling influence over."
Me and my boys are a team with no need for intimidation or indeed dominance which is a word much misused when it comes to human /dog relationships.
To anyone with this book  I reccomend you also read The Culture Clash or The complete idiots guide to Positive Dog Training to give your reading some balance.
Mark

Mark Sanderson BSc Hons (canine behaviour), FdSc CBT, CAP 1, CAP 2
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Offline Jan/Billy

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Re: Good Book!
« Reply #20 on: January 01, 2008, 11:56:18 AM »
Me and my boys are a team


aw that sounds so lovely  :luv:



Offline Elmo

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Re: Good Book!
« Reply #21 on: January 01, 2008, 02:24:45 PM »
To anyone with this book  I reccomend you also read The Culture Clash or The complete idiots guide to Positive Dog Training to give your reading some balance.


Im glad my choice of books is approved by others on this forum ;)

The reason he is so poplular with the novice dog owner is because it apperas he gets quick results without the need for hours of reading and investigating into our dogs physche (sp?) or paying to go to training classes and putting the effort in at home. Its a quick fix just like dieting.....its easier to crash diet for a fortnight than go to weight watchers for months and put the effort in. As we all know crash diets dont work and the weight piles back on and just like dieting CM techniques are a quick fix which doesnt really get to the root of the dogs behavioural problem.

I only watch his programme in the hope that one day a big burly dog will eat him :005:
(i wouldnt actually advocate dog agression by the way, that was said tongue in cheek ph34r :D)

Offline debz

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Re: Good Book!
« Reply #22 on: January 01, 2008, 02:54:46 PM »
Oh Dear i bet you wish you'd never said anything now Kelly :o this is one of the reasons i don't post anything on here anymore the same story on most threads! Well HAPPY NEW YEAR TO YOU ALL :D

Offline bibathediva

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Re: Good Book!
« Reply #23 on: January 01, 2008, 03:06:08 PM »
i have watched the programme  ph34r
 but its not until you have been made aware of what he does that you actually start to notice all is not as it seems...you really do have to look to see that some of the dogs are wearing prong collars and thats why they are walking to heel after a few goes and the not so subtle back kicks he gives out also have the desired effect....I'm sure if i kicked my dogs they would take notice of me....for so long ...but there would come a point where my dogs wouldn't even look at me for fear of the responce  :o

Ive never seen a prong collar in real life until a couple of weeks ago when we were at the vets ...not sure what breed of dog it was ..not one I'm familiar with but it was very BIG....any ideas from that description  :huh:....anyway it had a prong collar on  :o  wasn't doing much good though as it was still pulling its owner all over the place...and does that mean my vets are really bad as they must have seen it when the dog went into the room  :-\

Offline Jane S

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Re: Good Book!
« Reply #24 on: January 01, 2008, 03:30:49 PM »
Oh Dear i bet you wish you'd never said anything now Kelly :o this is one of the reasons i don't post anything on here anymore the same story on most threads!

Not sure what you mean by that Debz?? If you have a problem with COL, then please could you contact me or any of the Mods rather than post this kind of comment. We do have a forum policy of promoting positive training methods (we are hardly alone in that) which means that trainers that use other methods will tend to be challenged on here. As long as dicussions are kept polite, there's nothing wrong in people expressing their views surely? No-one has been at all rude to Kelly - all they've done is say why they dislike Mr Milan which they are perfectly entitled to do (I doubt he cares one iota what people on a Cocker forum say about him with the huge media profile he now has). As with any other discussion where strong opinions are expressed, it's up to us all as individuals to make our own minds up but it never hurts to listen to other people's views :D

Jane

Offline Annette

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Re: Good Book!
« Reply #25 on: January 01, 2008, 04:14:17 PM »
Oh Dear i bet you wish you'd never said anything now Kelly :o this is one of the reasons i don't post anything on here anymore the same story on most threads! Well HAPPY NEW YEAR TO YOU ALL :D

What a bizarre comment. ::)

The original post was about a recommendation for a book. Are we, as co-members of this forum, only allowed to comment on this recommendation if we agree?

I opened this thread, read the original post and thought "Ooh, I bet most of the 24 replies are negative", and they are. But how is that wrong?

This reminds me a bit of something I was taught in a different context many years ago: "If you aren't prepared for any possible answer, then don't ask the question".

And I really do not see that this is a pattern in MOST threads, Debz.

Offline Jan/Billy

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Re: Good Book!
« Reply #26 on: January 01, 2008, 07:17:54 PM »
And I really do not see that this is a pattern in MOST threads, Debz.


Me neither! I feel very comfortable is giving my honest views on this forum  :D



Offline debz

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Re: Good Book!
« Reply #27 on: January 01, 2008, 07:23:55 PM »
Everyone has there own views on subjects and i don't agree or disagree with the book (never read it)or his methods haven't look into it enough but i do feel people get aliitle carried away with there own views that can sometimes be aliitle harsh ph34r basically she was only saying she thought was a good book  i'm not out to offend quite the reverse  :D

Offline Cob-Web

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Re: Good Book!
« Reply #28 on: January 01, 2008, 07:32:04 PM »
basically she was only saying she thought was a good book

If I read a review like the OP about a book, then I would consider buying it, as it was referred to as excellent, and the training techniques "spot on".

To give such a controversial author such high praise indicates that the OP has done her research and so would be well aware of the opposing views and negative opinions about CM and his methods - but many people who are new to dog ownership won't know these things.

In order to make an informed choice, I would want to hear the positives and negatives about a book and it's author; CM doesn't refer to the American Humane Society opinion on him in his books, or the fact that he made two "out of court settlements" in cases in which he has been accused of cruelty  :-\
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Offline Trischie

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Re: Good Book!
« Reply #29 on: January 01, 2008, 08:28:03 PM »
I'm really glad to have read the discussion.

I was recommended the book here (by a German reader) so looked up the original title of the book and sent the title to my Dad asking for it as a christmas present. Only my dad bought "THE dog whisperer" by Paul Owens by mistake. It was only half way through the book (this morning actually) that I realised there had been a mix up, because nothing seemed to compare to what my doggy-walking friend had said and he did look a bit different in his picture! So I thought I'd have to buy the suggested book myself after all. Glad I read your counter-reviews now, so I won't bother.

The book by Owens is definately non-violent, by the way, though I am getting a bit confused. Probably because I'm reading it too fast.