Any cesar fans out there???

[EmmaA]

Interesting articles just have a problem with the second link and it's nothing to do with CM. Lisa Mullinax author of the article says that dogs are not tame wolves and that dogs do not display behaviours that wolves do and says "such as regurgitating food for their young". But I have to challenge this statement as Penny had a litter of pups and began to regurgitate food for them as soon as they turned 4 weeks old and continued to do it until most of them left at 8 weeks old but continued to regurgitate for the 2 remaining pups that we kept well up til 1 yr old and on occasions has done it since They know when she's going to do it and actively hover round her and lick at her mouth until she vomits. What does this say about my dog, is she more wolf than dog, is it a natural behaviour that is still in dogs but people don't allow them to do it anymore, does raw feeding make a difference or are some of the conclusions about dogs and wolves inaccurate? I know of other canine mothers who regurgitate so I know Penny is not alone.

As for CM v positive training I think this debate will continue to divide dog people for a while yet.

That really is interesting Karen
I really find dog vs wolf behaviour fascinating. There is obviously some instinct that tells Penny to do this but I wonder why more bitches don't. Is it because they don't need too anymore? Hmmmm sorry just pondering out loud

[Top Barks]

It is because of domestication in my oppinion.
There is no longer the need as nutrition in the form of solids has been provided abundantly by us.
I have no evidence to back that up, just a hunch.

[*Theresa*]

even gave an example of alpha rolling a dog who was scared of fireworks   

 

Exactly    I worry about the mentality about anyone who gets satisfaction from dominating another living creature, especially in order to teach it that fear is unacceptable 

Slightly off topic I guess but I have to say I agree with rachel on this. I went swimming with a mate this week and we saw a dad smack and shout at his toddler for being scared of the water.....what the heck is that going to teach his kid bar water is even scarier because it gets you smacked 

[6thSense]

Oh god it scares me how people blindly follow him. I have watched a few of his programs as we used to use it as training when I worked in Rescue of exactly what not to do and the consequences of doing so. His methods are extremely cruel. I have also witnessed someone using his methods by throwing the dog screaming to the floor and pinning it there. The dog was terrified and I'm afraid I let it be known how I felt and he did apologies to me, so hopefully he will think before he acts next time.

Bibathediva- He may suggest regular exercise, but seems to think sticking the poor dog on a tread mill constitutes this. Madness. Dogs need to be dogs and run, play, interact, sniff etc.

[anita96]

I watch CM just to be amazed by the guy, he is a complete numpty and I cant believe the great general public can't see through the fact he isn't a dog trainer but a TV presenter.  I watched it last week and he had two boxers with huge prong collars on and was very pleased with himself as they didn't lunge at other dogs, ofcourse they didn't they had huge prongs in their necks.  I do agree with what spanielcrazy says:

I have no quarrel at all with the basic messages of the books, and hope they don't get lost in the fray: that dogs are dogs and not little furry people, and need to be respected and treated as such; that dogs need excercise and good nutrition, and that some behavioural problems can be traced to a lack of one or both; that dogs respect and respond to calm assertive energy, and that they pick up on and respond to energy and emotion.

what I can't bear is all the tv nonsense that goes with it.  I loved the episode where a lab was attacking chickens and he walked around with the chicken in his arms to show the dog that he owned the chicken,    If I did that with mocha he would wait patiently until I didn't own the chicken then have it and bring it back to me to own again !

[6thSense]

I saw that episode as well and you could see that was exactly what that dog was thinking as well and don't get me started on the cruelty factor to the poor chicken.

[anita96]

I know the chicken was scared stiff, he did nothing to train the dog not to attack the chicken just walked around with it making strange noises, and the clients thought he was amazing.  He did say that they should do some gundog training which would benefit the dog in terms of giving the poor bored dog something to do but as for attacking chickens the dog was just waiting for the right moment.

[Jane S]

Lisa Mullinax author of the article says that dogs are not tame wolves and that dogs do not display behaviours that wolves do and says "such as regurgitating food for their young". But I have to challenge this statement as Penny had a litter of pups and began to regurgitate food for them as soon as they turned 4 weeks old and continued to do it until most of them left at 8 weeks old but continued to regurgitate for the 2 remaining pups that we kept well up til 1 yr old and on occasions has done it since

Yes that statement is definitely inaccurate. We've had quite a few bitches do this but generally not for longer than a couple of weeks so Penny is exceptionally generous with her food to keep doing it for so long One of our girls (Siani) gets the urge to regurgitate but eats it up again faster than lightning - no danger of her pups ever getting to it before she does I think there is a primitive urge in some bitches that makes them do this but others never do it at all or do it but don't connect the urge with feeding of pups (like Siani )

[6thSense]

Actually yes Morgana regurgitated for her pups as well. Plus is howling not such a behaviour as my lot get a good howl going sometimes. Our dogs also have a pack order and my bitch Nimue is definitely the Alfa Bitch. I just don't believe I am part of that pack. I am supposedly in charge, but they know I'm not one of them. Well I hope they do anyway. My ears aren't that big. 

[bibathediva]

Bibathediva- He may suggest regular exercise, but seems to think sticking the poor dog on a tread mill constitutes this. Madness. Dogs need to be dogs and run, play, interact, sniff etc.

I agree...i have watched out of interest but just end up getting angry...but it seems alot of the owners on the program dont even consider that there dogs need to go out for a walk...there was a guy with 3 toy dogs that were stuck inside an apartment 24/7 and he said because they were little dogs he didnt think they need to go out for a walk 
I do think lack of going out to exersise ..off lead especially.. does contribute to problems with dogs 

[6thSense]

Exactly. He seems to cause more problems than he solves.

[KellyS]

My bitches have regurgitated food for their pups too and would continue to up to 8 weeks if i let them...

My dogs also enjoy short spurts on our running machine (in addition to their normal exercise), supervised of course, they get on themselves & can get off anytime they like, it gives them something else to think about & do and I don't see whats wrong with that  

I agree with Spaniel Crazy's points about the book etc especially people forgetting that dogs are animals and not furry people or children, I think people apply far too much human psychology to dogs IMO, i don't agree with the stringing dogs up on choke chains and using electric collars etc... I think you just need to take away from Cesar Milan the bits that you like (if any) and ignore the other stuff...

[sarah25]

My bitches have regurgitated food for their pups too and would continue to up to 8 weeks if i let them...

My dogs also enjoy short spurts on our running machine, supervised of course, they get on themselves & can get off anytime they like, it gives them something else to think about & do and I don't see whats wrong with that  

I agree with Spaniel Crazy's points about the book etc especially people forgetting that dogs are animals and not furry people or children, I think people apply far too much human psychology to dogs IMO, i don't agree with the stringing dogs up on choke chains and using electric collars etc... I think you just need to take away from Cesar Milan the bits that you like (if any) and ignore the other stuff...

I agree & ditto.

We also have a running machine they love going on it everyday they also go out for walks and runs down the park and play with the other dog's 

[Cob-Web]

I think you just need to take away from Cesar Milan the bits that you like (if any) and ignore the other stuff...

I find it easy to ignore advice that I think is poor, or ineffective (no harm done, just not for me, thanks) -  but I find it impossible to ignore cruelty, and advice that encourages owners to abuse their pets 

[6thSense]

Thats fine for your dogs if they enjoy it on the running machine and they go out for walks also. My point was that I don't think it is a substitute for outdoor exercise and the dog being able to display typical dog behaviour. I didn't mean to upset anyone in any way.