Author Topic: Serious Aggression - Desperately need advice - updated  (Read 18430 times)

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Offline Top Barks

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Re: Serious Aggression - Desperately need advice
« Reply #30 on: July 13, 2009, 09:39:42 AM »
Belive me guys David Appleby is one of the leading liights in behaviour in this country so Lily is in good hands

Mark Sanderson BSc Hons (canine behaviour), FdSc CBT, CAP 1, CAP 2
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Offline Helen

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Re: Serious Aggression - Desperately need advice
« Reply #31 on: July 13, 2009, 09:41:42 AM »
Belive me guys David Appleby is one of the leading liights in behaviour in this country so Lily is in good hands

That's fantastic - lets hope he backs Lily to get all the health tests as well  :D
helen & jarvis x


Offline Top Barks

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Re: Serious Aggression - Desperately need advice
« Reply #32 on: July 13, 2009, 09:48:00 AM »
Belive me guys David Appleby is one of the leading liights in behaviour in this country so Lily is in good hands

That's fantastic - lets hope he backs Lily to get all the health tests as well  :D

It would be unethical of him not to.
He is APBC and has probably forgotten more than i know. :D
He is very well published and is often on my reference lists.

http://www.petbehaviourcentre.com

Mark Sanderson BSc Hons (canine behaviour), FdSc CBT, CAP 1, CAP 2
Member of The Association Of Pet Dog Trainers (00977)
 
Check out my website http://www.topbarks.co.uk/  www.yorkdogtrainer.co.uk

Offline sharonmansfield

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Re: Serious Aggression - Desperately need advice
« Reply #33 on: July 13, 2009, 10:19:00 AM »
My bitch gets very moody when coming into season, not as extreme as this but she tends to grumble at our other dog and just wants to be left alone, I am getting her spayed after this next season to prevent this.
I too wonder if its hormonal. I so hope you can get to the bottom of this and it sounds like you have one of the best beaviourists helping you.
Good luck and best wishes
Cocker Spaniels are like chocolates you can never have just one!

Offline mcphee

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Re: Serious Aggression - Desperately need advice
« Reply #34 on: July 13, 2009, 01:05:00 PM »
Gordo. I hope everything improves for you and your cocker. Please let us know how things progress because we are all keen to support you and learn. Did you manage to get her to the vets yet? Chin up. Rufus's mum.

Offline joanne_v

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Re: Serious Aggression - Desperately need advice
« Reply #35 on: July 13, 2009, 01:26:04 PM »
How are things today? We'd love to hear how things go and how David helps you tackle this problem. He's definitely in the top ten of behaviourists in the country!

Mum to cockers Lily, Lance and Krumble and lurchers Arwen and Lyra. Hooman sister to Pepper, 13.

Offline cindere528

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Re: Serious Aggression - Desperately need advice
« Reply #36 on: July 13, 2009, 06:30:01 PM »
Just looking for an update, wondering how you got on with the vet/behaviourist  :huh:

Offline Gordo

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Re: Serious Aggression - Desperately need advice
« Reply #37 on: July 13, 2009, 09:22:44 PM »
I was dreading today so hubby took the day off work and I spent the day with my mum.  I know this may sound selfish, but tbh, I am completely at the end of my tether and very upset -- didn't want this to rub off on Lily........

Anyway, hubby stayed with Lily, David phoned this morning and said he would call round today on his way home.  He suggested she may be coming into season, or that the growling is an expectation of pain rather than being in pain.  He also said that her behaviour is abnormal even for a dog with behaviour problems due to the level of escalation in such a short period of time.

When he came, he checked and there doesn't appear to be any signs of her coming into season.  She allowed him to stroke her but then growled at hubby when he stroked her.  She let hubby put lead and take lead off, but had a funny look in her eyes when he did this.  David said we had to make her earn her food - ie, stroke her, if she doesn't growl give her some dinner.  He also said she possibly hasn't had enough opportunities to learn good behaviour as we had to ignore her 'bad' behaviour, so wasn't getting any fuss, so becoming frustrated.  As he was leaving her said that she is going to be a tough nut to crack.  :'(

Since I got home, her behaviour has been very erratic -- she was very pleased to see me, nut growled after a few seconds of me skroking her, she started earning her food, but as soon as it was all gone she went for hubby and she's 'humped' his leg lots of times, but growls when she does this.

I've spoken to her breeder again tonight, have been in regular contact with her since all this began, and there's not much she can really say as she's never experienced this either.

So really, we're no further forwards.  We've e-mailed David again tonight re her behaviour and 'humping', but hubby is now where I was last night, and we just both feel that we're completely out of our depths.  :'(  We knew that she wasn't going to be an easy 'fix', but we're both at a total loss of to do next and feel that we're failing her. :(
 

Offline cindere528

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Re: Serious Aggression - Desperately need advice
« Reply #38 on: July 13, 2009, 09:36:07 PM »
As I said before, I'm no expert, but I would say that the "humping" could be a sign that she's coming into season.

When Bess, my first unspayed bitch, came into season the first time, her moods were dreadful for weeks before the season actually happened.  We also couldn't see any physical signs that her season was imminent, she just had really grumpy (and destructive) moods.

Someone else said that early spaying might be the answer in Lily's case. I know some vets are reluctant to spay before the first season, but I think exceptions can be made if it is felt that the dog would benefit.


Offline Gordo

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Re: Serious Aggression - Desperately need advice
« Reply #39 on: July 13, 2009, 09:42:37 PM »
We had her booked in to be spayed today, actually, but then the vet said we needed to get her behaviour sorted first.  She said the worst thing that could happen to Lily would be to be in pain and have aggression going on at the same time.

Offline sharonmansfield

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Re: Serious Aggression - Desperately need advice
« Reply #40 on: July 13, 2009, 09:58:20 PM »
I have just read this and I feel so sorry for you what a thing to go through and how awful that she has been deemed a tough nut to crack.
I have no advice sorry other than to say one of my bitches is very grumpy before her season, since end June and she is due August, hence she will be spayed after this one as she is constantly grumbling at my other bitch if she even looks in her direction it happened last time she was due then she goes fine once in season. Not grumpy with us though, also my other bitch humps when due in season and during her season. But he has discounted that and he is the expert so I am at a loss.
Its strange how she goes for you consistently though. I don't know what to say or suggest.
I hope you can get to the bottom of it with Davids help soon.
thinking of you
Sharon
Cocker Spaniels are like chocolates you can never have just one!

Offline Top Barks

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Re: Serious Aggression - Desperately need advice
« Reply #41 on: July 13, 2009, 10:02:28 PM »
We already are staying away from her, and she does sleep in a crate. The worst part is she approaches us and sits happily at our feet for attention and if we stroke her she growls and lunges.

She is in the garden at the moment happily chewing a leaf and she still responds to our commands but then becomes aggressive after treating/praise.  :(

I would be as hands off as possible at the moment.
If Lilly is feeling threatened she will react and if she has had a traumatic event then it could take days or even weeks for her stress levels to return to normal.
Do you know what David saw to say it was frustration?
Have her eyes been checked?
I wonder if this could also be related to the second fear stage that puppies go through? where they start to be fearful of things they were previously ok about.
Sounds like an insecure or worried dog rather than frustrated to me but so hard to tell from posts on a forum.

Mark Sanderson BSc Hons (canine behaviour), FdSc CBT, CAP 1, CAP 2
Member of The Association Of Pet Dog Trainers (00977)
 
Check out my website http://www.topbarks.co.uk/  www.yorkdogtrainer.co.uk

Offline Karma

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Re: Serious Aggression - Desperately need advice
« Reply #42 on: July 13, 2009, 10:06:47 PM »
I would discuss the spaying issue with your Behaviourist - he will obviously have a much better idea of what is going on than any of us can (not only is he an expert but he's also actually seen the behaviour)... and whether an earlier spay would help or hinder your work with her.

I can't imagine how frustrating it must be to be going through this... and for what it's worth, I do think if you were feeling too stressed to work with her, you did the right thing by keeping your distance, as she would certainly pick up on your feelings!

Thinking of you and Lily, and hope you see some progress soon...
Remembering Honey. Aug 2007-July 2020

Offline Mrs K

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Re: Serious Aggression - Desperately need advice
« Reply #43 on: July 13, 2009, 10:13:10 PM »
I have no advice whatsoever, just wanted to say that you shouldn't feel as though you are 'failing her'. You have gone to the vet, engaged a great behavourist and you're on here asking lots of advice. You are working very hard on it so please don't put yourself down. You are obviously very devoted and committed to helping her. Chin up! Big hugs  :luv:
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Offline Jeanette

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Re: Serious Aggression - Desperately need advice
« Reply #44 on: July 13, 2009, 10:14:56 PM »
We had her booked in to be spayed today, actually, but then the vet said we needed to get her behaviour sorted first.  She said the worst thing that could happen to Lily would be to be in pain and have aggression going on at the same time.

And apparently I've read in lots of places that spaying an aggressive bitch can make the aggression worse - not sure how true that is but your vet knows best anyway.  

Good luck and hope you things improve for you.