Question about excitablility at puppy classes

[tritonx]

I had Fraser in puppy classes from about 4 months and it seemed useless for him learning anything. He'd be so excited to be around other dogs, he couldn't focus and wouldn't do anything unless a liver treat was right under his nose and he was led along. I worked with him at home and he learns no bother, though still at 9 months is completely distracted out in the world if there's there's another dog around (I can't recall him when he's playing with another dog or on smell track).

He hasn't been back to puppy class since before Christmas as there was a break for the holidays and he was neutered, so wanted to wait until he was fit again. The classes are not big, maybe 6 dogs tops, and the trainer seems to know what she's doing. But I almost dread taking back into a situation where he spends his time pirouetting on his lead and trying to play with the other dogs. How on earth do people and their cockers succeed in those conditions? Advice?

[Top Barks]

some dogs don't.
Has your trainer commented or suggested any alternatives.
If Fraser is so wound up it is very unlikely he will learn anything. Could you work him behind a visually barriered off area? Just go and reward any calm behaviour?
If not may be one to one is the way to go. I don't run classes, I prefer to work one to one as i believe i get more done.

[Sarah1985]

My cocker isnt so bad but Ive seen a few that are. One couldnt get into the room without barking and trying to get to the other dogs

If they are finding it tough to focus, the owners are told to click and reward any calm behaviour. For the most part these participants just sit and watch and attempt to maintain a level of calmness, while the other dogs do the class.

Once they can manage to remain calm they are asked to get the dogs to focus on them and maintain eye contact. Once the owners have got their attention they can start asking for the simplest of behaviours. Usually things they do very well at home and are familar with.

Its about building it up slowly. It seems strange that the instructor hasnt spoken to you about it and suggested  things you can do to improve his focus. YOu could try approaching them and telling them that your dogs finding it tough in a classroom enviroment and they can suggest techniques to help you

[tritonx]

I think I might go the route of individual lessons. He's now a couple of months older than when he was in my last class and I do see some sign of maturing. For example, he now can walk (on lead) past people without trying to get to them to greet them. He always pulled to get to them before. And he will sit on greeting when asked--he will bounce up in excitement, but sit again when reminded so there's a slow, incremental increase in his ability to do what's asked of him. I'm not sure how he might be in a group class at this stage and suppose I could try one and see how it goes. If it's back to the excitability, I'll see about one on one. I've got a couple of excellent books and have had some success working from them for specific behaviours. Thanks for the help and perspective on training the boy.

[BrendaM]

I had Fraser in puppy classes from about 4 months and it seemed useless for him learning anything. He'd be so excited to be around other dogs, he couldn't focus and wouldn't do anything unless a liver treat was right under his nose and he was led along. I worked with him at home and he learns no bother, though still at 9 months is completely distracted out in the world if there's there's another dog around (I can't recall him when he's playing with another dog or on smell track).

He hasn't been back to puppy class since before Christmas as there was a break for the holidays and he was neutered, so wanted to wait until he was fit again. The classes are not big, maybe 6 dogs tops, and the trainer seems to know what she's doing. But I almost dread taking back into a situation where he spends his time pirouetting on his lead and trying to play with the other dogs. How on earth do people and their cockers succeed in those conditions? Advice?
[/quote  All dogs learn easier at home the whole point of going to training is to train you dog under pressure you will end up with a well trained dog so back to class!!!

[BrendaM]

Any dog will be better behaved, and train easier at home the whole point of going to a training school is to train your dog under the pressure of other distractions, this then gives you a properly obedient dog, so back to class!!!

[tritonx]

Heh, yes ma'am   I don't want to bump others off the page by posting another question, so I'll attach it here and hope someone looks.

I'm trying to teach Fraser to hand target, but he bumps the hand really hard and often with an open mouth. He's not biting, just open mouthed. I want him to follow the hand, not half jump to bump it. It's not the hand with treat in it. Same with greet. I get him to sit and then extend my hand for him to greet, hoping to get him so he can people, including children, in a civilized way. But same thing. He bumps really hard and often with mouth open. So, not what I want for either. How do I get him to be gentler, in the first case, just follow the hand w/o jumping up toward my hand and in the greeting, to do a gentle nose to hand? Just a matter of click when he gets it the right degree of touch?

[Potter]

Do remember that Fraser is only nine months old.     The next few months will be the most trying of all, from every aspect - and really, we wouldn't want it any other way, would we?!   

I think a couple of one-to-one sessions with your trainer would be invaluable.  And what's to lose from it?  So give that a go now.  No need to wait until he's older at all.  As with children; teach them basic good manners from the start and it will stick with them all through their lives.

I definitely agree that a class environment, eventually, will be your goal.  Distractions are a part of daily life, and if he can learn to cope with those at this young age, it will stand him in good stead.

Don't expect anything from him at all.  He's a puppy!      This is what puppies do - some more than others.  It won't last forever, but you're doing the right thing - stick at it.  Don't give up!

Good Luck!  Let us know how you get on.

[tritonx]

Yeah, good reminder. In fact, he generally does so well with behaviour that the things that need tidying up stand out. Compared to some of the hi-jinks I read about here, I've got off pretty easy. So far. Could all go to hades (not sure how strict language rules are here) overnight, I suppose, considering the age he's at.

p.s. I spoke too soon. Fraser just ate my bluetooth.

[Sarah1985]

I dont know if this helps but I always look at classes as the instructor training me. Dexters just there for me to practice on. It really takes the pressure if him behaving and it helps me focus on what they're saying and not be too concerned about whether hes instantly getting it as long as Im getting it.

I have a friend whos an instructor and she says she looks at the owners not the dogs when checking they're getting on ok. (obviously up to a point). She makes sure they're teaching it correctly and if they do their homework the dog will get there. Class is often too distracting for lots of dogs to take in all the new stuff in so we're sent away to practice and they come back the next week and are loads better(providing they've been practicing). 

But now Dexters a demo dog, his energy and egerness to start can be quite embarassing. I have to put him in a stay whenever the instructor is talking as if hes not "working" he can play up.  But that works for us as his stays are so solid. Its always going to be about managing Dexter energy rather than his ability to do the tricks, and I imagine lots of cocker spaniel owners are the same.

[elaine.e]

Fraser sounds just like Louis, who is also 9 months and has the attention span of a gnat at the best of times. At training class it's often even worse than that, plus he's now started barking when we're in class. Our class is quite small, currently about 6 dogs, all of them entire males, and Louis is the youngest . It takes place in a fairly large hall and if Louis is becoming too hyper I take him to the far end of the hall for a couple of minutes and quietly work on my own, doing basics like sits, downs, stands and a bit of walking close to me, which gets his attention and calms him down.

With Louis, part of the problem is also frustration at being on lead and not being able to run about and use up his considerable energy. That's when the barking starts, so I'm clicking and rewarding when he stops barking for just a few seconds. It seems to be working.

He's just a teenager at the moment and although he gets plenty of free running in the New Forest every day it doesn't seem to blunt his energy and, of course, I still have to be mindful of how much exercise he has because of his age and physical development.

The training class is in 6 week blocks and I think when this 6 weeks ends I'm going to miss the following 6 weeks and do more training at home, plus maybe a couple of one to one sessions with my trainer. By the end of that he will be 11 months old and maybe a bit more settled.

[Birdie Wife]

With Louis, part of the problem is also frustration at being on lead and not being able to run about and use up his considerable energy. That's when the barking starts, so I'm clicking and rewarding when he stops barking for just a few seconds. It seems to be working.

That's good to know - I've just started taking Cari to agility classes and she was so wound up she spent most of the time barking and lunging on the lead to try and get to the other dogs. Having said that, she was also obedient when off the lead doing jumps etc, would sit/stay and come back straight away if I gave the command when she decided to go and visit the other dogs. Maybe clicker training would work for her - I just hope she exhibits SOME good behaviour to reward!

[Mudmagnets]

Any dog will be better behaved, and train easier at home the whole point of going to a training school is to train your dog under the pressure of other distractions, this then gives you a properly obedient dog, so back to class!!!

Think this does depend on the nature of the dog somewhat. For those who cannot take to a class environment, surely it is better to get the basics firmly instilled in a calm way, then move on to classes (if required) when the time is right for them.

[black taz]

like sarah, i used to go to the training classes for the trainer to train me until Taz was about a year - he found it impossible to concentrate  However, i took it as a challenge that if i could get him to do as i asked in those circumstances i could get him to do it in less difficult situations.  We now attend the advanced classes and i couldnt wish for better (he is nearly 3 now) - so don't give up hope.