my dogs getting bullied

[scott0904]

so my instant reply was to try and pick floyd up

Have you ever picked him up before when out on a walk?

unless hes to lazy to get in the back of car 

[scott0904]

With regards to fighting back, I think if Holly was getting attacked I'd feel a little better if she gave a bite back rather than get mauled! Bit like watching your child in a scrap you'd want him to at least through a few good punches  

agree with the last bit of your post this is what i was meaning in opening post

[mooching]

so my instant reply was to try and pick floyd up

Have you ever picked him up before when out on a walk?

unless hes to lazy to get in the back of car 

Scott, I meant have you ever picked him up when another dog has come towards him?

[Helen]

so my instant reply was to try and pick floyd up

Have you ever picked him up before when out on a walk?

unless hes to lazy to get in the back of car  

Scott, I meant have you ever picked him up when another dog has come towards him?

...which I feel is not the right thing to do in these situations....

if you have a slightly fearful submissive dog the last thing you want to do is reaffirm there is something to be scared of by picking him up  

Plus by lifting him up you make him more interesting to other dogs and they will jump up at you to get to him.

[mooching]

...which I feel is not the right thing to do in these situations....

if you have a slightly fearful submissive dog the last thing you want to do is reaffirm there is something to be scared of by picking him up  

Plus by lifting him up you make him more interesting to other dogs and they will jump up at you to get to him.

I agree, and that's why I was asking, Helen. I was just waiting to see if he had before saying anything.

[Hurtwood Dogs]

so my instant reply was to try and pick floyd up

Have you ever picked him up before when out on a walk?

unless hes to lazy to get in the back of car  

Scott, I meant have you ever picked him up when another dog has come towards him?

...which I feel is not the right thing to do in these situations....

if you have a slightly fearful submissive dog the last thing you want to do is reaffirm there is something to be scared of by picking him up  

Plus by lifting him up you make him more interesting to other dogs and they will jump up at you to get to him.

Agree, learn to read ahead and prevent it happening in the first place and if you don't manage to prevent it occasionally, then I find a loud noise 'Oi!' and clapping loudly can distract the dogs long enough to seperate them and walk your dog swiftly away - BEST course of action is avoiding it in the first place though and like I mentioned distract your dog when you see another dog approaching to avoid a confrontational greet... and get some professional help from a behaviourist before it starts causing your dog further fear related problems...

[Karma]

With regards to fighting back, I think if Holly was getting attacked I'd feel a little better if she gave a bite back rather than get mauled! Bit like watching your child in a scrap you'd want him to at least through a few good punches  

agree with the last bit of your post this is what i was meaning in opening post

I'm sorry, but that's absolutely NOT what you want in this situation.... it sounds to me that he has had some run-ins with some very rude, potentially aggressive dogs... if he fought back in those situations it could very easily escalate into a full blown dog fight requiring vet treatment...  and he could learn that offence is the best form of defence and become aggressive himself...  I think what Sarah was getting at when she asked about breaking up a dog fight was just imagine how much more difficult it would have been to break up the attack from the JRTs if he was also fighting back - in that situation you could end up badly injured yourself.... 

As someone else has said, you are looking at this from a human perspective, rather than a dog's... As Hurtwood Dogs said, freezing is a warning that something is wrong and in my experience an encounter which begins with freezing will often end in arguments.  I also wouldn't ever let dogs sniff my dog while she was on lead - this will have put your dog on the defensive immediately, which may have been enough to trigger the JRTs into having a go (though their owner shouldn't be letting them go up to dogs on lead and intimidate them anyway...  ).  I don't get your idea that because he's a boy dog he should get on with young boy dogs... even the most sociable adolescent male dogs can start posturing etc to establish their pecking order, and this can easily errupt into conflict.  Kisses and cuddles don't make a dog "soft" - kisses and cuddles are a human means of showing affection which our dogs learn to tolerate, they are not part of canine communication, so don't have any further meaning to them.  As has been mentioned, picking him up or acting nervous of approaching dogs WILL make him more of a target, as he will feel there is something to be scared of and will become more defensive...

In general I agree with the others.... get him checked at the vets (it could be something as simple as anal glands that is prompting this)... but beyond that I'd check out more about canine body language and help floyd learn good doggie ettiquette by socialising him with as many good mannered dogs (male and female) as possible.  Avoid any confrontational interactions... especially if he is on-lead...

[LindyLou]

Well said Claire!

We both have the T-Shirt...................

[scott0904]

thanks for all your advice folks, its great to hear everyones experiences of situations

The biggest hurdle i think now is that every meeting of a male dog outside seems to turn the same way. I dont think its coincidence that every male dog is unreasonable, so im pretty sure its something in how he reacts (or doesnt react), how he smells, given that he is still entire or the fact that he still does act very puppy like but is full grown.

He approaches every dog the same as far as i can see.  Tail wagging furiously and very fidgety - just like an overexcited pup.  The only thing that really shocked me was that the other nights episode with the huge boxer was that they were a good 20ft apart at least when the boxer spotted him, snarled and managed to break free from his owner (on marshy muddy grass) lollaping towards Floyd. 

Like Hurtwood Dogs mentioned, the real issue is more for us now worrying about even taking him to the toilet at the bottom of the road, because there are so many dogs in my estate every venture out we see other dogs. Its difficult to almost hide from everyone. Especially when there will soon be an addition to our family   

Oh and just to clarify - I definatley dont want him fighting back. I just want him to be able meet and greet without it resulting in fight. Im worried one dog may really hurt him.

...And no we dont pick him when we're out - hes too heavy!

Thanks again guys!

[Sheepscheeks]

As Hurtwood Dogs said, freezing is a warning that something is wrong and in my experience an encounter which begins with freezing will often end in arguments. 

That's interesting... Freddie 1 and entire. He has NEVER shown aggression towards another dog but it is amazing how many other dogs take one sniff and then growl at him. OK, this is usually when both dogs are on the lead but still, Freddie doesn't do it, I guess because he is still young. Anyway, now that he has learnt that not all dogs he sees are going to be his best buddy, he often freezes and/or lies down when another dog approaches. In his case I see it as being a case of "OK, I am just going to wait a bit and watch this dog to see if it is friendly or not." I don't see it as a warning that things may turn out nasty. Maybe that is just because of his age? Should I be more on guard in this situation? Normally I just say in a cheerful voice "It's OK Fred, come on" and he comes with me.

[Sarah1985]

As Hurtwood Dogs said, freezing is a warning that something is wrong and in my experience an encounter which begins with freezing will often end in arguments. 

That's interesting... Freddie 1 and entire. He has NEVER shown aggression towards another dog but it is amazing how many other dogs take one sniff and then growl at him. OK, this is usually when both dogs are on the lead but still, Freddie doesn't do it, I guess because he is still young. Anyway, now that he has learnt that not all dogs he sees are going to be his best buddy, he often freezes and/or lies down when another dog approaches. In his case I see it as being a case of "OK, I am just going to wait a bit and watch this dog to see if it is friendly or not." I don't see it as a warning that things may turn out nasty. Maybe that is just because of his age? Should I be more on guard in this situation? Normally I just say in a cheerful voice "It's OK Fred, come on" and he comes with me.

Lying down and staring is a calming signal. its done fair distance away from the other dog and Its his way of not intimidating another dog or making them feel uncomfortale. It gives them both time to get the measure of each other whilest at the same time letting the other dog know it means no threat to them. I wouldnt encourage your dog to run in till him or the other dog have decided they're ready.

Freezing while standing looks very different. Ive only ever seen it done when the other dog is in the vacinity to the other dog. You can tell they are ready to spring into action should the other dog push their luck. It looks like the human equivilent of squaring up to someone if that makes sense. (But I dont have a dog who does this, ive only ever seen it in other dogs. Maybe someone else will be along shortly with a better description    )

[Sheepscheeks]

I wouldnt encourage your dog to run in till him or the other dog have decided they're ready.

OK thanks for that, I do sometimes encourage Freddie, in future I will just wait until he is ready to move on. 

[Karma]

thanks for all your advice folks, its great to hear everyones experiences of situations

The biggest hurdle i think now is that every meeting of a male dog outside seems to turn the same way. I dont think its coincidence that every male dog is unreasonable, so im pretty sure its something in how he reacts (or doesnt react), how he smells, given that he is still entire or the fact that he still does act very puppy like but is full grown.

He approaches every dog the same as far as i can see.  Tail wagging furiously and very fidgety - just like an overexcited pup.  The only thing that really shocked me was that the other nights episode with the huge boxer was that they were a good 20ft apart at least when the boxer spotted him, snarled and managed to break free from his owner (on marshy muddy grass) lollaping towards Floyd. 

Like Hurtwood Dogs mentioned, the real issue is more for us now worrying about even taking him to the toilet at the bottom of the road, because there are so many dogs in my estate every venture out we see other dogs. Its difficult to almost hide from everyone. Especially when there will soon be an addition to our family   

Oh and just to clarify - I definatley dont want him fighting back. I just want him to be able meet and greet without it resulting in fight. Im worried one dog may really hurt him.

...And no we dont pick him when we're out - hes too heavy!

Thanks again guys!

That's a very telling comment - if he does still act like a puppy at his age, he will get told off a LOT, until he learns proper manners... this is very different to the behaviour you described from the JRTs and Boxer, but may be what is happening with other dogs you meet.... it's important he learns these lessons, and dogs are the best teachers...    Though if this is the case, I'm suprised the female dogs he meets aren't less tolerant!!! 

[6thSense]

thanks for all your advice folks, its great to hear everyones experiences of situations

The biggest hurdle i think now is that every meeting of a male dog outside seems to turn the same way. I dont think its coincidence that every male dog is unreasonable, so im pretty sure its something in how he reacts (or doesnt react), how he smells, given that he is still entire or the fact that he still does act very puppy like but is full grown.

He approaches every dog the same as far as i can see.  Tail wagging furiously and very fidgety - just like an overexcited pup.  The only thing that really shocked me was that the other nights episode with the huge boxer was that they were a good 20ft apart at least when the boxer spotted him, snarled and managed to break free from his owner (on marshy muddy grass) lollaping towards Floyd.  

Like Hurtwood Dogs mentioned, the real issue is more for us now worrying about even taking him to the toilet at the bottom of the road, because there are so many dogs in my estate every venture out we see other dogs. Its difficult to almost hide from everyone. Especially when there will soon be an addition to our family    

Oh and just to clarify - I definatley dont want him fighting back. I just want him to be able meet and greet without it resulting in fight. Im worried one dog may really hurt him.

...And no we dont pick him when we're out - hes too heavy!

Thanks again guys!

That's a very telling comment - if he does still act like a puppy at his age, he will get told off a LOT, until he learns proper manners... this is very different to the behaviour you described from the JRTs and Boxer, but may be what is happening with other dogs you meet.... it's important he learns these lessons, and dogs are the best teachers...    Though if this is the case, I'm suprised the female dogs he meets aren't less tolerant!!!  

I agree. Do you have some dogs that you could maybe use as stooges that are unreactive and you know the temperament off that you could walk him with, so he could ( A ) Learn that not all dogs are going to attack him and ( B )  How to communicate and interact with dogs in the correct manner. My older girl Nimue used to be fab at this when I worked in rescue and we used her all the time. She would put them in there place, but gently if they over stepped the mark, but would also encourage them to communicate and interact correctly. She really is a wise old girl.  

[Hurtwood Dogs]

As Hurtwood Dogs said, freezing is a warning that something is wrong and in my experience an encounter which begins with freezing will often end in arguments. 

That's interesting... Freddie 1 and entire. He has NEVER shown aggression towards another dog but it is amazing how many other dogs take one sniff and then growl at him. OK, this is usually when both dogs are on the lead but still, Freddie doesn't do it, I guess because he is still young. Anyway, now that he has learnt that not all dogs he sees are going to be his best buddy, he often freezes and/or lies down when another dog approaches. In his case I see it as being a case of "OK, I am just going to wait a bit and watch this dog to see if it is friendly or not." I don't see it as a warning that things may turn out nasty. Maybe that is just because of his age? Should I be more on guard in this situation? Normally I just say in a cheerful voice "It's OK Fred, come on" and he comes with me.

Lying down and staring is a calming signal. its done fair distance away from the other dog and Its his way of not intimidating another dog or making them feel uncomfortale. It gives them both time to get the measure of each other whilest at the same time letting the other dog know it means no threat to them. I wouldnt encourage your dog to run in till him or the other dog have decided they're ready.

Freezing while standing looks very different. Ive only ever seen it done when the other dog is in the vacinity to the other dog. You can tell they are ready to spring into action should the other dog push their luck. It looks like the human equivilent of squaring up to someone if that makes sense. (But I dont have a dog who does this, ive only ever seen it in other dogs. Maybe someone else will be along shortly with a better description    )

That's not always strictly true, my Weim will drop to the floor, focus on the other dog and freeze - and it's always bad news when she does that. She will also sometimes 'creep' towards the dog she's focused on then freeze again or she will freeze in a standing position, again with bad results. She may be an acception to the rule, or it may be a behaviour more specific to her breed - as they were bred to be capable of hunting and bringing down large game, so it might be a 'stalk' type behaviour that other breeds don't do, but I think it's important to let other people know that if a dog that drops to the floor and freezes isn't always a calming signal and it can end in trouble. I've seen Collies do similar and it end badly also..