Thoughts on half check collars?

[RachelA]

Just been to enrol at puppy training classes and they recommended we use half check collars. Just wondered what COLers think of these?

We use a normal collar and lead or harness at the moment with Lela.  When she is her normal self (been poorly) she does pull a lot.

Thanks,
Rachel

[clairep4]

I'm not a fan - I prefer harnesses over flat collars and wouldn't want to use a half check at all as it encourages you to jerk the dog's neck around which can cause damage to the vertebrae. Pups especially have very delicate necks and pulling on a collar causes them to brace through the neck. If you then yank them back you can cause whiplash-like injuries. The dog may not show he is in pain but it can impact on behaviour.

[karen488]

No experience whatsoever but I've read a book what about a gentle leader? I don't even know what one is but would like to hear opinions of others.

[Joules]

Agree with Claire - I definitely would not use one  

I used a Gentle Leader with Coco when she was younger - it did work quite well but she hated it and I gave up eventually. She still pulls sometimes but I would still never use a choke chain or half check 

[Hurtwood Dogs]

I don't know if this is true, but I was told by a dog trainer that was very high up in the met police's training team that half check's were a huge money making swindle and didn't do anything.. but were designed to sell to the market that couldn't quite bring themselves to use a proper check chain. Now this was coming from a man that had used check chains 'properly' (not my thing) during his career with the Met. He said that someone invented the half check to be the 'soft' option to the normal check chain and it was a complete waste of time and a 'bad' thing as a normal check chain used 'properly' is designed to press on a dogs nerves behind their ears (not strangle them).. the half check can't do that so just yanks dogs necks around.

I don't like either tbh and would much rather focus on training a dog to walk nicely on a normal flat collar.

[RachelA]

Have to say, I was surprised when the trainer recommended the half check collar. I'm starting to question whether these classes will be right for us, they seem a bit 'old fashioned'.  But I'll give them a try and see how we go!

[Joules]

There do still seem to be quite a lot of classes that still use outdated and negative training methods. 

If you are not 100% happy with their methods then you should definitely feel able to leave and find another class 

[mooching]

If I'd gone to a puppy class with Alfie and they'd recommended one of those collars, I wouldn't have gone back again.

Have a look for one of these: it's a Halti harness which you use with a Halti double-ended lead that clips to the chest and shoulder rings. I didn't know about them when I got Alfie, and would definitely have used one from the start if I had.

http://www.vetuk.co.uk/dog-accessories-dog-harness-dog-muzzels-c-628_408/halti-training-dog-harness-p-2726

I'd definitely suggest this particular Halti (based on recommendations from folk here) or another harness - and a different puppy class....
Do they say their training is reward-based?

[praia]

A half check collar is just a training tool and any tool can be misused and/or abused.  I don't have issues with half check collars as long as they are used appropriately.  I don't ever think it's appropriate to use them on a puppy.  

A dog should never be corrected for things it doesn't understand are expected of it and of course a puppy doesn't know better.  This is the age when you're teaching behaviors and making it fun for them. Proofing behaviors comes much later down the road.

Any good trainer would never recommend something as a fix all solution.  Every dog is different and every situation is different so feel free to ignore their recommendation and find other ways that work better for you and your dog.  

 

I don't know if this is true, but I was told by a dog trainer that was very high up in the met police's training team that half check's were a huge money making swindle and didn't do anything.. but were designed to sell to the market that couldn't quite bring themselves to use a proper check chain. Now this was coming from a man that had used check chains 'properly' (not my thing) during his career with the Met. He said that someone invented the half check to be the 'soft' option to the normal check chain and it was a complete waste of time and a 'bad' thing as a normal check chain used 'properly' is designed to press on a dogs nerves behind their ears (not strangle them).. the half check can't do that so just yanks dogs necks around.

That's funny.  Honestly, I wouldn't trust anything regarding training dogs from a K9 police unit.  The best police dogs aren't trained by the police, they are bought already trained by protection dog sport trainers.  Pluto, the worst police dog in the world, was probably trained by a police dog trainer.

I always thought that half checks were essentially martingale collars, which were invented for breeds with smaller heads so that they wouldn't back out of them.  I'm sure, however, that it was marketed to the public as a more humane version of the check chain since there is a limit to how tight it can get around a dog's neck.  

The reason check chains are positioned high up on the neck and behind the ears is so that it doesn't block a dog's airway when tightened and also so that it can compress the brachial nerve, but honestly, how different is that compared to the Halti head collar that presses on the sensitive facial nerves?   You're never supposed to yank a dog's neck around with either the check or half check.

[dogsgalore]

If I'd gone to a puppy class with Alfie and they'd recommended one of those collars, I wouldn't have gone back again.

Have a look for one of these: it's a Halti harness which you use with a Halti double-ended lead that clips to the chest and shoulder rings. I didn't know about them when I got Alfie, and would definitely have used one from the start if I had.

http://www.vetuk.co.uk/dog-accessories-dog-harness-dog-muzzels-c-628_408/halti-training-dog-harness-p-2726

I'd definitely suggest this particular Halti (based on recommendations from folk here) or another harness - and a different puppy class....
Do they say their training is reward-based?

I use one of these with Skye.  It gives two points of control without putting pressure on the neck.  We still do shorter training walks on a flat collar and standard lead, but for longer walks the halti takes the stress out of the situation.    Hopefully as she gets older (she is 18mths) and we work hard on loose lead walking, we may not need the halti but for now it is a great help.

[cath0104]

Have to say, I was surprised when the trainer recommended the half check collar. I'm starting to question whether these classes will be right for us, they seem a bit 'old fashioned'.  But I'll give them a try and see how we go!

I Can't comment regarding half check collars but I would definately say go with your instincts regarding your trainers.  I didn't trust my instincts with my first dog and wasted several months trying to teach him 'their' way. A good trainer is one that will work with you and your dog to find the style of training that is right for both of you

[Hurtwood Dogs]

I don't know if this is true, but I was told by a dog trainer that was very high up in the met police's training team that half check's were a huge money making swindle and didn't do anything.. but were designed to sell to the market that couldn't quite bring themselves to use a proper check chain. Now this was coming from a man that had used check chains 'properly' (not my thing) during his career with the Met. He said that someone invented the half check to be the 'soft' option to the normal check chain and it was a complete waste of time and a 'bad' thing as a normal check chain used 'properly' is designed to press on a dogs nerves behind their ears (not strangle them).. the half check can't do that so just yanks dogs necks around.

That's funny.  Honestly, I wouldn't trust anything regarding training dogs from a K9 police unit.  The best police dogs aren't trained by the police, they are bought already trained by protection dog sport trainers.  Pluto, the worst police dog in the world, was probably trained by a police dog trainer.

The trainer I talked to had just retired as head of training for the Met. I suspect he knew a thing or two about handling and training police dogs My FIL is also a retired police dog handler and interestingly, he was also given all his dogs as puppies to train and live his family - they we're certainly not bought in ready trained from outside. Things may have changed now but the information I have was from older school trainers. I don't like most of the methods used to train police dogs and would never use them with my dogs. I'd contacted the above trainer with a view to getting help with a difficult dog that I rehomed nearly 4 years ago as he 'specialises' in large dogs with aggression issues but after finding out more about his approach and methods, including the check chains decided it wasn't for us. This was where my info for the half check collar came from also as the dog I'd rehomed came with one and even he said to take her out of it.... Martingales are IMO more risky than normal flat collars, I've lost a dog out of a Martingale but never a flat collar unless it's snapped!

You're never supposed to yank a dog's neck around with either the check or half check.

No, but unfortunately, this is how they mostly end up being used.... The 'snap' that is supposed to press on the nerves behind a dogs ears when a normal check chain is high up on a dogs neck is very difficult to get right and obviously with a half check doesn't happen at all, which is what he was talking about... hence the half check being a soft option gimmick that is likely to end up being misused.

To the OP I would only really be wanting to attend a class that aimed to promote positive heel work training on a normal flat collar.. Be interesting to hear why your trainer suggests half checks?

Normy had also been walked in a head collar device before I got her and I'm convinced that that was also a big factor in contributing towards her fear aggression - although I appreciate it works well for some dogs. She now walks very nicely in a normal flat collar 

[Black Red + Yellow]

I don't know if this is true, but I was told by a dog trainer that was very high up in the met police's training team that half check's were a huge money making swindle and didn't do anything.. but were designed to sell to the market that couldn't quite bring themselves to use a proper check chain. Now this was coming from a man that had used check chains 'properly' (not my thing) during his career with the Met. He said that someone invented the half check to be the 'soft' option to the normal check chain and it was a complete waste of time and a 'bad' thing as a normal check chain used 'properly' is designed to press on a dogs nerves behind their ears (not strangle them).. the half check can't do that so just yanks dogs necks around.

That's funny.  Honestly, I wouldn't trust anything regarding training dogs from a K9 police unit.  The best police dogs aren't trained by the police, they are bought already trained by protection dog sport trainers.  Pluto, the worst police dog in the world, was probably trained by a police dog trainer.

The trainer I talked to had just retired as head of training for the Met. I suspect he knew a thing or two about handling and training police dogs My FIL is also a retired police dog handler and interestingly, he was also given all his dogs as puppies to train and live his family - they we're certainly not bought in ready trained from outside. Things may have changed now but the information I have was from older school trainers. I don't like most of the methods used to train police dogs and would never use them with my dogs. I'd contacted the above trainer with a view to getting help with a difficult dog that I rehomed nearly 4 years ago as he 'specialises' in large dogs with aggression issues but after finding out more about his approach and methods, including the check chains decided it wasn't for us. This was where my info for the half check collar came from also as the dog I'd rehomed came with one and even he said to take her out of it.... Martingales are IMO more risky than normal flat collars, I've lost a dog out of a Martingale but never a flat collar unless it's snapped!

One of my friends is a Police Dog Handler.....the training he has is very thorough and he is always going away with his dogs on training courses throughout the year.....and his dog is lovely and well adjusted.....and he rehomed one of his previous police dogs with himself.......I have only ever seen him use positive re-enforcements and they all wear normal collars

[Bluebell]

If I'd gone to a puppy class with Alfie and they'd recommended one of those collars, I wouldn't have gone back again.

Have a look for one of these: it's a Halti harness which you use with a Halti double-ended lead that clips to the chest and shoulder rings. I didn't know about them when I got Alfie, and would definitely have used one from the start if I had.

http://www.vetuk.co.uk/dog-accessories-dog-harness-dog-muzzels-c-628_408/halti-training-dog-harness-p-2726

I'd definitely suggest this particular Halti (based on recommendations from folk here) or another harness - and a different puppy class....
Do they say their training is reward-based?

I use one of these with Skye.  It gives two points of control without putting pressure on the neck.  We still do shorter training walks on a flat collar and standard lead, but for longer walks the halti takes the stress out of the situation.    Hopefully as she gets older (she is 18mths) and we work hard on loose lead walking, we may not need the halti but for now it is a great help.

I have used/sometimes use a halti harness with Teva, they are great After continuous use for about a month, I tried her without the harnes and just the flat collar and she did very well, with mininmal pulling!
Isaac, my Vizsla wears a half check collar. I did not use it until he could walk to heal. I use it for convenience as he does not wear a collar in the house, it is too big for him so it does not actually 'close'! Would never use one on a puppy, and probably not with a hairy dog as the chain would catch in the fur JMHO

[clairep4]

The concept of having two points of contact comes from TTouch training - we focus less on whether the dog pulls and more on whether it walks in balance (if it pulls then it's relying on you to balance it). By having two points of contact you can alternate which one you give signals on so they cannot rely on leaning into one or the other.  It's important to stay up by the dog's shoulder and give light, UPWARD signals - as soon as you pull back you trigger the opposition reflex and the dog automatically pulls forward.

Thankfully a few manufacturers have taken up this idea now - Xtradog now do fleece harnesses with a ring on the chest as well as the back having worked closely with Sarah Fisher. There are also Mekuti harnesses (she is a TTouch practitioner) and the new TTouch harnesses :-)