Raw and Dried together?????

[LurcherGirl]

I guess, though have no proof, that some complete kibble added to some raw meat will do little more than give a higher protein content to their meal.

There are dry completes that are grain free, e.g. Orijen, Acana and the one I feed Taste of the Wild.

I don't think adding complete to raw will increase the protein content as most completed are actually lower in protein (though the above grain free ones are often around the same as raw meat). I give raw and kibble because I feel it is the best of both worlds and perhaps less of a chance of missing any nutrients. But everyone has to do what they are comfortable with.

My understanding is that complete kibble is generally higher in protein than raw food. For example
James Wellbeloved adult kibbles contain 20 to 21% protein
Arden Grange adult kibbles contain 25% protein
Natural Instinct chicken & lamb (80%meat, 20% fruit, veg & herbs) contains 15.5% protein
Natural Instinct pure beef 18% protein

but to really make a comparison you need to look at the protein levels in the dry content of the food. This link http://www.landofholisticpets.co.uk/Compare%20protein%20in%20Wet,%20dry%20and%20raw%20dog%20foods.pdf is worth a read (it's only 1 page) because it explains how to accurately calculate protein levels and gives examples of a typical tinned dog food (much higher protein than you would at first think), a typical kibble and raw chicken.

Sorry to the OP that this has gone off topic, but it's fascinating and just goes to show how misleading labels can be and what a complete minefield feeding your dog is.

That's correct, but from what I understand, raw meat (as dry matter) would be on average over 40%, which is higher than most dry foods.

[elaine.e]

[quote author=LurcherGirl link=topic=83365.msg1246350#msg1246350 date=130746084
That's correct, but from what I understand, raw meat (as dry matter) would be on average over 40%, which is higher than most dry foods.
[/quote]

But the link that I posted show shows raw chicken (as dry matter) to contain about 14% protein, so lower than most kibble 

[Marina and Saartje]

OMG I am now totally confused This thread has been absolutely fascinating but still not sure if I'm doing the right thing

Maybe this will help: dogs are inside, there digestive system, for 95% the same as wolves, what do you think wolves eat? Kibble or raw meat en preyanimals?
Do you see wolves heat there food which is the cause in kibble. Although some of them don't contains grain or other high carb ingredients the meat in kibble has been heated and in that process most of the good stuff in meat is gone.

In the Netherlands there are very expensive prepacked frozenfood but also much cheaper.... In euro from 1,10 euros for 1 kilogram to 4,50 euros 1 kilogram. Maybe that's possible in Scotland?

As for the carrot; a dog digestive system is to short to digest vegetables when they aren't cooked of mashed. Carrot raw and in one piece will come out undigested on the otherside, if you know what I mean   That's no problem, but is has almost no nutritive value.

[Mel]

I am no expert on this, and can't quote it directly, but my OH read the Shaun Ellis book about wolves. To this day it is believed no wolf which has died for any reason has ever have been found to have been eating any form of grain or cereal at post mortem.

I'm wondering how much dog's digestive systems have supposedly evolved to be on par with us? I mean has the incidences of obesity in domestic animals increased with them being given more sugars and carbohydrates? What about other diseases? And would dogs breeding in the wild have long ago bred out the genetic defects that still trouble them today, by the sick and weak not surviving?

Like children they would chose sweet over savory if given the chance, but as adults we have the awareness to choose to eat for our health or not. A dog or cat's healthy eating is down to the owner.

I know dogs are scavengers whose diet has diversified around humans, but even with that diversification, would an adult dog, left to ultimately choose it's own food in the wild, feast mostly on carbs or proteins for energy and longevity?

So, if these charts are correct, then maybe even raw food cannot be bad for an aging dog?

It is true that cooking foods changes the molecular structure of it and is probably as bad for us as it is for our furry friends.

I know very little about raw feeding compared to some, but I find this whole debate truely fascinating.

[LurcherGirl]

That's correct, but from what I understand, raw meat (as dry matter) would be on average over 40%, which is higher than most dry foods.

But the link that I posted show shows raw chicken (as dry matter) to contain about 14% protein, so lower than most kibble 
[/quote]
Actually, they say that raw chicken (where 80% is water) is around 14% protein, chicken as dry matter is around 70% protein...