Old Fashioned training

[Sheryl]

Hey, no worries!  Mine are stealth bowlers.  They sit like they will let me through first and then as soon my foot lifts they rush between my legs.

[cangrejo]

  I could never treat Charlie, any dog or animal like that   

[Sarah.H]

I have never understood the "dominance" thing , making your dog come through a door behind you etc and become the pack leader. Dogs aren't daft (well not all!!) they know we humans , aren't dogs. I like to believe and I hope rightly, that Cassie comes back to me, does the things I ask her because she loves and trusts me. Some one recently (not sure if it was on this forum) said why shout commands at your dog, they are your friend, would you shout at a human friend in the same way and expect love and respect.? I have to admit that I have shouted at Cass like a fish wife (trying to stop her eating horse poo) and all it did was make her "shout " back. She rarely eats poo now cos she knows she will get a treat if she doesn't.
This forum has given me invaluable advice in caring for Cass and all our training and care wil lor is bound to differ but I feel that I know for a fact that if we thought that someone treated their dog as in my original post we would hunt them down and hang, draw and quarter them !!!!

When I had Kali at the puppy classes, making a dog come through the door after you was part of the training.  It wasn't to do with dominance, it was to make sure they learnt not to bowl you over in their haste to get through the door first!

Sorry Sheryl , I was over generalising I suppose And yea they can bowl you over !!!

It's funny cause after reading this thread I was flicking through the channels and there was a programme about wolves howling to locate each other. It showed the pack reuniting and them all going crazy, leaping around and licking each others faces as a bonding behaviour. So how does that fit in with the whole 'pack theory' and dominance training?! So instead of coming home and not petting the dog until it's calmed down we should actually leap around and let them lick our faces  .

[Countrygirl]

Speaking sternly has always been enough for Ellie, as it was for my last cocker, Sophie.

I also have a book on cockers an elderly lady gave me.  This was written a long time ago.  Under the feeding section it says 'boil a sheeps head'.  Thankfully a lot has changed now!

[seaangler]

Speaking sternly has always been enough for Ellie, as it was for my last cocker, Sophie.

I also have a book on cockers an elderly lady gave me.  This was written a long time ago.  Under the feeding section it says 'boil a sheeps head'.  Thankfully a lot has changed now!

They still give sheep heads to grayhounds and also to the fox hounds/hound packs...Cheap meal for them....

[laurie_champagne]

We have 2 doors at the external entrances - the regular wooden door and a storm door which is glass or screen (depending on the time of year) - so I found having  Ranger follow me out the doors on a leash  meant we both got tangled up when I tried to reach back to close the doors. Instead he is trained to preceed me & then sit and wait just past the doors so I can close & lock them - he waits until I say "OK" before going down the steps. It's the training that teaches them who is in charge - not the order in which you go through a door.

[clairep4]

They used to train gundogs to hold a dummy by either pinching their ear really hard or hitting them when near a dummy - the punishment stopped if they picked the dummy up 

[Karma]

They used to train gundogs to hold a dummy by either pinching their ear really hard or hitting them when near a dummy - the punishment stopped if they picked the dummy up 

Plenty of gundog trainers still do.... 

[praia]

They used to train gundogs to hold a dummy by either pinching their ear really hard or hitting them when near a dummy - the punishment stopped if they picked the dummy up 

Force fetching using negative reinforcement is actually the norm with retriever field trialing trainers here in the US.  Most believe it's the only way to train a dog to have a reliable retrieve.  It's very sad that they'd rather use such coercive methods to train something that these particular breeds should be doing naturally.  Many of them don't even consider simply breeding dogs with stronger retrieving drives.   Same goes for many in the competitive obedience field when training retrieving behaviors into breeds that do not have any sort of retrieving instinct.  Do they get the results they want?  Yes, and usually very quickly, but their dogs look like robots retrieving dumbbells, which is an incredibly sad thing to see.  I'd rather see a dog who looks like he's having the time of his life doing what he loves best, and that's something you just don't see when someone uses such methods.

[Mel]

I have never understood the "dominance" thing , making your dog come through a door behind you etc and become the pack leader. Dogs aren't daft (well not all!!) they know we humans , aren't dogs. I like to believe and I hope rightly, that Cassie comes back to me, does the things I ask her because she loves and trusts me. Some one recently (not sure if it was on this forum) said why shout commands at your dog, they are your friend, would you shout at a human friend in the same way and expect love and respect.? I have to admit that I have shouted at Cass like a fish wife (trying to stop her eating horse poo) and all it did was make her "shout " back. She rarely eats poo now cos she knows she will get a treat if she doesn't.
This forum has given me invaluable advice in caring for Cass and all our training and care wil lor is bound to differ but I feel that I know for a fact that if we thought that someone treated their dog as in my original post we would hunt them down and hang, draw and quarter them !!!!

When I had Kali at the puppy classes, making a dog come through the door after you was part of the training.  It wasn't to do with dominance, it was to make sure they learnt not to bowl you over in their haste to get through the door first!

Sorry Sheryl , I was over generalising I suppose And yea they can bowl you over !!!

It's funny cause after reading this thread I was flicking through the channels and there was a programme about wolves howling to locate each other. It showed the pack reuniting and them all going crazy, leaping around and licking each others faces as a bonding behaviour. So how does that fit in with the whole 'pack theory' and dominance training?! So instead of coming home and not petting the dog until it's calmed down we should actually leap around and let them lick our faces  .

When Tali has sat and behaved when I have come in, he leaps all over me licking my face. I think it's lovely and am happy for him to do this. I have read about that being a bonding thing before.

Of course this is after I have walloped him with sticks, cooked him and stuck him in the tumble dryer til he learns to sit.

I jest but it's a sign of the times. They knew no better then.

[dal55]

Cass disappeared after pheasants/ partridges for 2nd time in 2 days. She always comes back but I worry so much that she has gone too far . I feel so helpless at times like this, you can't tell them off after coming back !!!!So how do I let her know that she has "done wrong" Today I resorted to extremely child like behavior and refused to speak to her !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Of course this made her depressed and the poor little lamb just kept looking at me with THOSE EYES Anyway as you can imagine it lasted OOOOOOh all of 5 mins
How do you  let them know it was naughty ??

[Danni and Freya]

Cass disappeared after pheasants/ partridges for 2nd time in 2 days. She always comes back but I worry so much that she has gone too far . I feel so helpless at times like this, you can't tell them off after coming back !!!!So how do I let her know that she has "done wrong" Today I resorted to extremely child like behavior and refused to speak to her !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Of course this made her depressed and the poor little lamb just kept looking at me with THOSE EYES Anyway as you can imagine it lasted OOOOOOh all of 5 mins
How do you  let them know it was naughty ??

In this situation (as you have said) you can't tell her off or let her know shes been bad. The bad behaviour has passed and so has the window to correct it. Shes returned to you and so doesn't understand why you would be cross with her by that time, I know all about those eyes  It is difficult when you feel cross not to let it show, but they know don't they

[Helen]

Cass disappeared after pheasants/ partridges for 2nd time in 2 days. She always comes back but I worry so much that she has gone too far . I feel so helpless at times like this, you can't tell them off after coming back !!!!So how do I let her know that she has "done wrong" Today I resorted to extremely child like behavior and refused to speak to her !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Of course this made her depressed and the poor little lamb just kept looking at me with THOSE EYES Anyway as you can imagine it lasted OOOOOOh all of 5 mins
How do you  let them know it was naughty ??

you put them on a long line and teach her recall - it's the only way!  Do not let her chase birds as a habit, you will never get good recall 

[dal55]

Helen, I've tried  that and normally her recall is really good. She behaves herself for ages and then indulges in deafness.I spent forever with long lines.