CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Activities => Working => Topic started by: Nicola on July 01, 2009, 03:30:32 PM
-
I've put this thread in here as most of what I'm teaching Caoimhe is geared towards working. I've been working out a very rough week by week plan of what I want to work on with her. Obviously most of it is ongoing and some things take longer to pick up than others but I like to have an idea, however vague, of what I'm doing as we go along. She is currently just over 5 and a half months old.
The plan for week one is:
- to teach her her name
- to get her sitting reliably to a verbal command, hand signal and whistle
- to teach her to lie down to a verbal command and hand signal
- to start teaching her to stay put when told to sit (i.e. sit means stay)
- to keep on with her lead walking training and the 'heel' command on and off lead
- to work on her recall to a verbal command
- to start putting the recall to the whistle
- to start teaching her the 'look' command
She is not getting 'walks' as such at the moment, I take her to the big park over the road 6 times a day for between 10-20 minutes at a time and break this up into play, training and letting her pooter around. This seems to be a good balance of physical and mental stimulation as she is a pretty settled and content pup in the house, she's still into everything if she gets the chance but she's very well behaved for her age.
All her trips out are on her own just now, she hasn't been out with Tilly and Rodaidh yet and she won't be until I'm happy that her training is well underway, I want to be able to focus on her 100% and I want her to focus on me and not on running around with the other two and going too far from me (I may make exceptions for the game fair and meet up as I want her to be exposed to new situations too but as a rule it's individual walks only at this stage). The furthest I let her get from me is about 10 feet but I'm finding that she's naturally coming back past me without me having to call her most of the time. She has a natural, instinctive close quartering action which is really excellent.
I'm trying to make the bulk of her rewards praise and play but at this stage I'm also using small food treats - a mixture of halved Nature's Menu chicken treats, halved PAH puppy bones, small cubes of cheese and small bits of hotdog sausage - and I will phase the vast majority of these out as she progresses in favour of the '3 p' rewards I always use of praise, petting and play.
As to how she's doing so far, she has picked up her new name very quickly and now looks at me when I say it. She was already sitting to a verbal command and a hand signal and I have also introduced the whistle to this and she's now sitting reliably to one long loud-ish blast on the whistle to a distance of about 3 feet away from me. She has picked up 'lie down' very quickly with the aid of small pieces of cheese as lures. Likewise the 'look' command is going well, I get her attention with a small treat, hold it up to my face and say 'look' as she looks at me then reward. I've started introducing her to the clicker as it's useful for things like this. Teaching her that 'sit means stay' is in the beginning stages, I start with her sitting in front of me, reinforce the hand signal and verbal sit command and take a step backwards. She has shown herself to be a natural at the art of the Cocker Shuffle :lol2: but she was very good this morning and I managed to get 2 steps away from her and back again twice without her moving.
She is still in the stage where she naturally wants to stay near me and she's recalling very well to a verbal 'come' command. I've started to introduce the whistle cue (two pips) as she's running towards me. I'm doing this by a combination of calling in a very high pitched, excited voice, using a squeaky toy as a lure to get her attention, running away from her while calling her excitedly and generally running around like an idiot calling her and encouraging her to follow me.
Walking to heel on a lead is about my least favourite thing to teach a dog and it's going slowly. I've started to teach her the 'heel' command and positioning off lead using treats and a ball as lures which is going ok but on lead she is still getting herself (and me) in a bit of a tangle, she'll get there though she'll probably be like the other two and end up better at heeling off lead than on.
I think that's it so far, she's a really lovely pup to work with, she's really bright and really keen and I'm having a lot of fun with her, she's keeping me busy! :luv: You do forget how intensive having and training a puppy is though, I really don't know how anyone does this with more than one pup at a time or why they'd want to, I'm glad she's 5 months and not 8 weeks old ph34r :005:
-
Aww Nic she sounds delightful :luv:
I take it the move oop nort is on hold? No way could you fit in work whilst training poopie ph34r :005:
-
Woah! Harvey learnt sit, his name ( although to be fair he knew that already, but I'll pretend to take credit for it), 'leave it' and 'try not to wee on the carpet' in his first week. Go Caoimhe! :D
When you say cocker shuffle, do you meant that ridiculous bum sjuffle they do in the sit position when they're meant to be 'waiting'. :005:
Erm, where are the pics? ph34r
-
When you say cocker shuffle, do you meant that ridiculous bum sjuffle they do in the sit position when they're meant to be 'waiting'. :005:
Erm, where are the pics? ph34r
Yeah, I call it the Cocker Shuffle, it's where they start sitting in one place and you move away and suddenly find them sitting right in front of you again without having actually got up :lol2:
Photos are coming! The pc has taken a severe dislike to Photobucket and Flickr and I can only upload to the net on OH's work laptop just now ::)
I take it the move oop nort is on hold? No way could you fit in work whilst training poopie ph34r :005:
Yeah, I'm not moving!! :lol2:
-
Wow, sounds like she's really coming on. Mine know sit/stay, but their logic dictates that if we're staying we might as well lie down and be comfortable :lol2: I can ask them to sit and they do so beautifully, but as I walk away they lie down >:( ............so still working on the sit/stay.
Erm, where are the pics? ph34r
Yes, must be some more pics of the beautiful Caoimhe please. :D
-
Aww Nic she sounds delightful :luv:
I take it the move oop nort is on hold? No way could you fit in work whilst training poopie ph34r :005:
Was going to ask the same thing. So have you heard back from the other companies? Sorr, going off subject a bit here ph34r
-
Aww Nic she sounds delightful :luv:
I take it the move oop nort is on hold? No way could you fit in work whilst training poopie ph34r :005:
Was going to ask the same thing. So have you heard back from the other companies? Sorr, going off subject a bit here ph34r
Yeah I've been offered one of the other jobs :D which is great because it's home based as the main production facility is on South Uist(!) and I don't have to start for another few weeks... woo hoo :lol2:
-
<a href="http://www.glitteryourway.com" target="_blank">[img width= height= alt=Myspace Comments, Glitter Graphics at GlitterYourWay.com" title="Myspace Comments, Glitter Graphics at GlitterYourWay.com" border="0]http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/742/glitteryourway31e7aba0.gif[/img][/url]
<a href="http://www.dolliecrave.com" target=_blank title="Myspace Layouts">[/url]
Enjoy your last 2 weeks of freedom!
-
That's brilliant news Nicola....you might have told us (or did I miss it :shades: :D)
Congratulations :D
-
Congratulations Nicola - you must be so pleased.
I am so happy that everything has worked out for you.
Well Done!!!!!!!!! :D :D
-
Thank you! Getting through the list of things to do with Caoimhe plus walking and training Tills and Ro is going to be like a full time job though... the pay's cr@p but the workmates are fantastic :005: :luv:
-
The plan for week one is:
- to teach her her name
And teach us her name! :005:
-
The plan for week one is:
- to teach her her name
And teach us her name! :005:
tis easy... S.L.A.S.H.E.R
goddit? ph34r :lol2:
-
The plan for week one is:
- to teach her her name
And teach us her name! :005:
tis easy... S.L.A.S.H.E.R
goddit? ph34r :lol2:
GRRRR!!!
-
tis easy... S.L.A.S.H.E.R
goddit? ph34r :lol2:
GRRRR!!!
[/quote]
:rofl1: :rofl1:
I'm just gonna call her Miss C aka Slasher :005: :005:
-
Glad it's going well! :D Helen told me about your new addition.
Jeeees, your organised :shades: working to a training plan, I'm well impressed.
The only plan I've ever had for Alfie was in my head and that is as far as it got.
I could be a better trainer I'm sure if i did it properly and introduced a bit more structure.
I'm just not that way inclined.
I start with all good intentions and then it all goes out of the window and off on a tangent. :005:
Still we don't do so bad.
-
I don't think you do too badly Mark! :P :lol2:
It's a very rough plan as I said, I just tend to be quite disorganised if I don't have a target, however vague, to work towards. I don't expect her to get everything in a certain timescale, a lot of the stuff on week 1's list will be appearing on week 2, 3, 4, 5's.... lists as well :005:
-
That is brilliant Nicola. I'm going to try working from it if you don't mind as our training has become a bit disjointed and disorganised.
-
Aww Nic she sounds delightful :luv:
I take it the move oop nort is on hold? No way could you fit in work whilst training poopie ph34r :005:
Was going to ask the same thing. So have you heard back from the other companies? Sorr, going off subject a bit here ph34r
Yeah I've been offered one of the other jobs :D which is great because it's home based as the main production facility is on South Uist(!) and I don't have to start for another few weeks... woo hoo :lol2:
oh congratulations. ;) well done you.
-
That is brilliant Nicola. I'm going to try working from it if you don't mind as our training has become a bit disjointed and disorganised.
Having met young Alfie :luv:, I think he needs one to one training attention. :005:
Send him to me immediately. :luv: :luv:
-
That is brilliant Nicola. I'm going to try working from it if you don't mind as our training has become a bit disjointed and disorganised.
Of course not :D or as Mark has said you could always just send Alfie to me :005: :005: :luv:
-
Having met young Alfie :luv:, I think he needs one to one training attention. :005:
Send him to me immediately. :luv: :luv:
He he, well if you can get him as well trained as your lot then I might well have to do that!
-
Of course not :D or as Mark has said you could always just send Alfie to me :005: :005: :luv:
Alfie is a lucky boy - would you both mind moving a bit closer to Hampshire please ;)
-
errrr tough Mark and Nicola, I'm going to enrol Alfie in Jarv's school of cool :lol2:
-
It gets even better :D
When does Alfie start the "cool" :shades: lessons :lol2:
-
It gets even better :D
When does Alfie start the "cool" :shades: lessons :lol2:
any time :shades:
We'll drag Nic and the crew down from Edinburgh too :lol2:
Sorry Nic, hi-jacking your thread which is brilliant and which I am going to print out and keep just in case OH ever relents on Jarv II or Ro II ph34r
Ever thought of writing a working cocker training guide? :shades:
-
It gets even better :D
When does Alfie start the "cool" :shades: lessons :lol2:
any time :shades:
We'll drag Nic and the crew down from Edinburgh too :lol2:
Sorry Nic, hi-jacking your thread which is brilliant and which I am going to print out and keep just in case OH ever relents on Jarv II or Ro II ph34r
Ever thought of writing a working cocker training guide? :shades:
Thanks hun ;) :-* Phil will cave, I'll set Ro on him the next time we're down :lol2: :lol2: :lol2:
-
I've not been very good at updating this ph34r :005: but Caoimhe is still doing really well. We've got all of her week 1 objectives either down pat or well underway and she's still so keen to learn. She behaved herself really well at the meet up, she was on lead most of the time and then had a bit of a mad runaround with Daisy but didn't go far from me and kept checking in.
In the last week or so we've been working on:
- reinforcing the stop whistle and gradually increasing the distance at which she'll respond
- starting her hunting and looking for things
- working on her sit stay
- working on her 'leave'
- getting her sitting still when something is thrown
- reinforcing everything from week 1 - recall, 'down', 'look' etc.
- a few easy retrieves and introducing her to the rabbit skin dummy
- keep on with the lead walking
- my one 'trick' that I teach - to give her paw :lol2:
She's done really well with all of this. I can now turn my back on her for a few seconds as I walk away and she'll stay put and I can walk in a large-ish circle around her. She will stay sitting for a full minute with me about 20 feet from her so on that score I'm really pleased with her. She's also learning to 'wait' before going through doors, getting out of the car etc.
Her stop whistle is very good and she will now stop instantly to the whistle at a distance of about 5-6 feet from me so I'm building this up slowly and upping the distractions slowly, this is one thing that it's so important to get right!
Her hunting is one of the most important things now, I'm starting off very basically by walking a pattern with her, hiding a few things for her to find and she's picking it up well and starting to now go a few feet out in front of me before I turn quickly and bring her back in the opposite direction. I'm just getting her used to the idea that there are things there for her to find and getting her into using her nose to find them but not to dilly-dally along, she's got a good pace and is still only going a max of about 6 feet from me at any time.
I started reinforcing the 'sit' with me stood about 4 feet from her and I dropped a tennis ball at my feet while simultaneously saying 'sit' and giving the hand signal. The first couple of times she went to move forward and I stopped her and put her back while reinforcing the commands. Within a couple of sessions she would sit still while I stood 10 feet away and threw a ball or a treat in front of me. She will now sit while they are thrown to either side of her and won't move until I release her to get them.
Her recall is still spot on and I'm constantly reinforcing it while she's still in the 'I love you mum!' puppy stage :lol2: She's recalling to multiple pips on the whistle and will come away from pretty high distractions - people, other dogs, smells etc. Her 'leave' is now pretty reliable and she will look to me when I say it and wait for me to tell her to do something else or give her something else.
I do 2 or 3 retrieves with her twice a week at this stage. She loves it and is a natural retriever but it's the easiest thing to overdo and ruin with a pup. I introduced her to the rabbit skin puppy dummy and she took to it instantly, picked it up with no hesitation and brought it back. I keep my back to a fence or hedge at all times when doing this and her returns are spot on. Her hold is excellent, she doesn't drop or spit out anything, be it a dummy, the rabbit skin or a tennis ball and she will sit in front of me holding it when she brings it back. I'm not interested in her presenting just yet, I just want to keep her fresh and keen to retrieve and to bring it right back to me which she's doing.
Her lead walking is progressing slowly. She's still a bit hit and miss which is fine, she's getting there and will walk pretty well for short periods before she forgets. We practise a lot and she'll get it soon enough. As I thought she is better off the lead than on it!
And finally, I taught her to give her paw simply by sitting on the grass with her with a treat in my closed fist and opening it instantly when she lifted a paw (she tried everything else first :005:) and she's now doing it on command to great effect :lol2: :luv:
I'm going to keep working on this vein for the next couple of weeks and also get her introduced to water soon.
-
Really impressive Nicola. In all honesty, have you ever thought about becoming a professional trainer? I don't know about Edinburgh and the surrounding area, but there is certainly a gap in the market here....my nearest trainer is 120 miles away, and cos I didn't trust their methods, I travelled all the way to York :shades: ;)
Sounds like Caoimhe is doing really well...when will she be old enough to go out on shoots?
-
Yes I have actually, I really love it... maybe watch this space ;) :005:
She won't be shoot ready until next year. I don't believe in rushing them, some folk would probably have her out this year but I wouldn't consider it. Taking a dog out on a shoot too soon is the best way to ruin them! She will be shot over and will be getting plenty of game experience but no actual shoots this year.
-
Awww she's such a star Nicola :luv: :luv:
This is great to read - with this and the book from the Gundog Club I am slowly working with Jasper - he's about a month younger than Caoimhe and we are slowly starting to get there - today I managed to get about 10ft away from him for about 30 seconds when he was in the sit - after about three days of training so hopefully we are getting somewhere!!!
Look forward to the next update!!
-
This is great. If we lived in the area we'd be straight over fo some training. Thanks so much for posting this, really interesting stuff.
-
I have really enjoyed reading this, how is she doing now? Are you still working to a plan?
My lad is 7 months and I am just starting to stretch his basics out a little, going well so far :D
*Secretly hopes to steal tips* :005:
You have 3 very gorgeous cockers :D
-
Yoohoo Miss McClure, can we have another diary installment?
-
Oh I just noticed this! Yep I'll do another installment of Caoimhe's diary tomorrow :D
-
Enjoying it, lease keep it up.
-
Sorry for being so bad/slow at updating this, I never was very good at keeping diaries :lol2:
Ok well Caoimhe is now 8 months old and is doing very, very well. I have to have a small gush and say that she is shaping up to be everything I could have hoped for in a working Cocker; she's bold, bright, driven and focussed and is also the sweetest, sookiest girl with a superb temperament and cheeky character.
I took her down for an assessment with Simon Tyers last month. For those who don't know of him Simon is the owner and handler of Caoimhe's sire FTCH Timsgarry Barlow (2007 Cocker champion) as well as various other dogs including FTCH Sandford Black Mamba, FTCH Timsgarry Valtos (2008 Cocker champion) and FTCH Timsgarry Simpson as well as being a very nice, down to earth man whose 'way' and methods I like very much. He agreed to see Caoimhe so I took her down to Staffordshire and luckily for us he liked her a lot and he has agreed to take her into his kennels later this month to do a bit of intensive assessment for a few weeks with an eventual view to running her in field trials :D Needless to say I am delighted about this, obviously nothing is set in stone and she may not make the grade as yet but the fact that he thinks she has potential and likes what I have done with her so far is very exciting. She will be down there for a few weeks, it's just too far for me to drive her back and forward and it will be good for her to have some intensive work with a real professional - trialling has become a professional's game and it's difficult to even get a run so with his help I think she really has the best chance of reaching and fulfilling her potential. Simon's website is here: http://www.hawcroftgundogs.co.uk/
Anyway, in the meantime I have been working hard with her. Her retrieving is not an issue, she is happily now retrieving full size dummies, rabbit skin dummies and pheasant wing dummies over a variety of distances and in a variety of cover, including over obstacles and from water. She took to swimming straight away and will dunk her head under to pick objects from the bottom as well as fetching floating retrieves. She has had light exposure to cold game and retrieved her first (pre-shot) baby rabbit last week, again she did this very well, she picked it up and held it nicely - no carrying by the head or legs - and brought it straight back. She is not sitting to present at this stage, that's something I haven't worked on yet as it's not top priority but she is coming in nicely and looking up at me while holding her retrieve. I have got her sitting steady to fall at my side now and that is the main thing I have been working on retrieving-wise. This entailed a lot of reinforcement of her 'sit' command and starting by having her steady to an object placed on the ground and then working up to throwing things greater and greater distances.
I have changed my way of teaching retrieves when training Caoimhe. Previously I used 'fetch' and 'go back' if the dog didn't go far enough which can get wordy at times. Now, on the advice of Simon Tyers, I simply say 'out' and she knows that that means she is to go in a straight line until she finds something. It's one word to cover any retrieve in a straight line. With Rodaidh I found I'd say 'fetch' and he'd go back 20 yards or so and then stop if he couldn't find anything so I'd have to start with the 'go backs' and possibly more 'fetches' if the item was further plus the 'go back' arm signal which isn't very clear to the dog whereas with this 'out' covers her for any distance and it also means 'bring back what you find'. It is working extremely well for her.
Her stop whistle has progressed and she will now stop up to a distance of about 20 yards which is the maximum she goes from me on a retrieve. We are working on stopping at a short distance and staying steady as I throw a retrieve out in front of her this week. She did well today and only broke her sit once but stopped after 2 paces forward and didn't go for the dummy so I moved the distance down a bit again and she was fine and we'll keep at it tomorrow.
The main thing I have been working on recently is her hunting. I needed to get her a bit less focussed on me and into more of a flow and rhythm when she's free hunting so I've been going out and planting dummies for her to find to give her the idea that she is looking for something and there is actually something there for her to find to keep her interest rather than asking her to hunt 'dry ground'. I planted 6 or 7 dummies in a regular pattern and then walk with her through them keeping her moving smoothly and quickly to the left and right by taking a few steps each way myself to encourage her and then turning quickly to keep her moving. She has progressed over the last month or so so that I only now need to take one step in each direction to keep her going and she's really getting the idea of the pattern and upping her pace - I saw some of the FTCH dogs quartering when I was down at the Tyers' place and they have to cover the ground at a blistering pace to stand a chance. She's also really clicked that she's looking for something and she's super keen with her nose to the ground and she really attacks any cover she sees and gets right in there but quickly so I'm very pleased with this progress. She picks up every dummy she finds perfectly, from day one of doing this she has not missed a single one and has brought them all to hand and then resumed hunting with gusto :shades:
I have had to work on myself quite hard in all this as well not to help her too much - I have to let her do this for herself as she needs to get into using her own brain and initiative and not to be looking at me for guidance all the time so I haven't been saying anything to her apart from giving the one pip turn command and praising her when she retrieves a found dummy. I have also been keeping my hands in my pockets as I walk the route with her as if I have them out she was focussing on them in case I produced a dummy or a treat or something. With my hands away and minimal input from me she is much more focussed on the task at hand. At all times in this she goes no more than 5-7 yards from me, there is no need whatsoever for her to go any further.
What else... she is walking perfectly to heel on and off lead now and her 'sit' (meaning 'stay') is solid in that I can walk around her, walk past her, run past her and have the other dogs running around and she won't move. In the next few weeks I plan to start making her do a bit more work when the other dogs are there as a distraction. She still does not go on walks with them but she has play with them in the garden every day supervised by me and I've been making her do some work too - just the odd recall, a few sits and downs, a 'sit stay', an easy retrieve etc. before releasing her again - and now I'm going to up the ante to having her do some hunting and more retrieving with them sitting there progressing to having her sit and watch them do some hunting and retrieving.
I think that's about it for now, I'll probably think of something else later. She is a cracking little dog to work with, I'm having so much fun with her and she loves it too. She is showing a few teenage tendencies, the main one being her cheek with the other dogs - if she wants to play they know about it :lol2: and she can be a cheeky little madam but it's not affecting her enthusiasm for her training or her biddability as yet!
-
That was a really interesting read, sounds like she is working out really well and both of you are getting so much enjoyment out if it :blink:
-
Well done Caoimhe and Nicola. :clapping: :clapping:
It looks like you both have lots of exciting times ahead. :D :D
-
That's a good insight into your training, thanks for writing it. Sounds like she's coming on a treat.
-
what a brilliant team - brilliant read and well done :clapping:
-
Well done - I'm exhausted just reading that!! :005: :005:
-
wow, what dedication you have, that was fascinating. Well done to both of you............ :luv:
-
Well done :clapping: :clapping: That's amazing for such a young girl!!