Author Topic: Working Cocker Puppies and Soft Toys?  (Read 4576 times)

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Offline Hannahc7

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Working Cocker Puppies and Soft Toys?
« on: October 28, 2013, 12:46:36 PM »
I am looking for some advice from those who gundog train their dogs.
Maggie is 5 months so hasn't really started proper training yet, I have just been doing some retrieves with a dummy, but we went to our breeder who will be helping us train her when the time comes and he said to get rid of all soft toys as she is getting into chewing the dummy and he thinks this is why.
I am new to gundog training so I am sure he is right. I just wondered if anyone else had any thoughts on how serious this is?
She is our only dog and really enjoys her soft toys so I feel a bit mean taking them away, but if it is really going to cause problems with the training I will.

Thanks in advance for any advice. :)

Offline Emilyoliver

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Re: Working Cocker Puppies and Soft Toys?
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2013, 01:02:14 PM »
Pip (9 months) has soft toys (and a blanket he drags everywhere). He hasn't chewed his dummies and had his first cold game retrieve a couple of weeks ago. I don't believe he damaged it - there was no concern from the trainer.  However, all dogs are different and I would think it would be much easier to remove the soft toys (especially if any have squeakers) to avoid a habit of chewing/ biting developing. As once it is instilled I would think it would be difficult to remedy.  Reading I have done has mostly recommended having no soft toys in the house. I will add though, that I plan to do agility with Pip anyway, so it would not be a huge issue for me if he were to develop a hard mouth.  And he could still do beating if he was dead keen on working and we were ever invited. So it depends really on what you ultimately want her to do and how serious you are about it.
Michelle, Emily and Ollie

Offline JeffD

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Re: Working Cocker Puppies and Soft Toys?
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2013, 03:24:28 PM »
I do not believe dogs develop hard mouth through having non squeaky toys, if they don't have toys as pups they will just find something else to pick up and chew. The problem is what folks do with the pup and toys indoors that can lead to problems in the field later in the training. Let the pup have toys but do not involve yourself in the dog / toy play other than to take the toy if the dog offers it.
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Offline MIN

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Re: Working Cocker Puppies and Soft Toys?
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2013, 03:28:16 PM »
Gemma goes beating with us. she has soft toys and chews scattered around the house. she has never chewed on the training dummy or on retrieved birds for that matter.
 she is not given the dummy in the house, only sees it when training
just as a note, some trainers do not believe that workers should be treated as household pets either, Gemma sits with me, sleeps with me and excels in the field. you can have cake and eat it  :lol:
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Offline Emilyoliver

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Re: Working Cocker Puppies and Soft Toys?
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2013, 03:35:31 PM »
Gemma goes beating with us. she has soft toys and chews scattered around the house. she has never chewed on the training dummy or on retrieved birds for that matter.
 she is not given the dummy in the house, only sees it when training
just as a note, some trainers do not believe that workers should be treated as household pets either, Gemma sits with me, sleeps with me and excels in the field. you can have cake and eat it  :lol:
:D - like idea of cake and eating it!!
Michelle, Emily and Ollie

Offline Nicola

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Re: Working Cocker Puppies and Soft Toys?
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2013, 04:57:03 PM »
I think it depends what you want to do with the dog. I never had toys of any kind lying around when Caoimhe was a puppy or in training, but she is a field trial dog and was being trained for this and it needs a much more stringent standard. It wasn't because I thought she'd start mouthing game, she never showed any inclination to do this whatsoever, it was so that she didn't get into a habit of picking things up and playing around with and then dropping them. If she finds something and picks it up I want her to deliver it to hand immediately but obviously I couldn't guarantee I'd be there every time she might pick up a toy so I had to control it. When I was training Rodaidh to work there were some toys in the house but not many, nothing squeaky and I didn't play games with him with toys. I would always prefer to avoid issues developing in the first place than have to rectify them, but if I was training a dog that showed any signs of chewing or mouthing the dummy toys would be removed until they had reached a stage where it was no longer a concern.
Nicola, Tilly, Rodaidh and Caoimhe x



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Offline Hannahc7

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Re: Working Cocker Puppies and Soft Toys?
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2013, 12:56:10 PM »
Thanks for all the advice - really interesting and helpful.
Nicola I am aiming to get to a stage where I am entering Field Trials, that is what I would love to do, but she is a pet too and kept in the house.
I think I will remove the toys for now at least until I have got her coming back to me with the dummy. Nicola have you got any advice with getting her to give me the dummy? She will pick it up like lightening and comes back quickly but will do a lap of honour around me and sit about a metre away chewing and throwing it around. I have tried everything to get her interested in coming up but she seems to be having more fun playing with it herself. I have tried getting a ball out but then she will drop the dummy and come running up to get the ball. Such a shame as she had it so perfect before!


Offline Emilyoliver

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Re: Working Cocker Puppies and Soft Toys?
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2013, 01:16:24 PM »
Have you taught her 'hold'? Have done this with pip. Sit on the floor and offer puppy the dummy and say 'hold' when she takes it. Let her walk all over you, around you - close by, all the time praising, stroking, rubbing under chin, chest and saying hold. Then take the dummy using your release command 'dead' or whatever. Repeat. Finish while she is still keen.  You can also do this with puppy on table and give praise and cuddles - then she will be close and can't go far.  The exercise helps with puppy learning that the best place to be with the dummy is right by you. Pip throws his whole body at me when delivering the dummy - very sweet but a bit hazardous!  Am sure Nicola and other more experienced handlers will have other probably better suggestions, but this has worked well for us. good luck with training - it's great fun.
Michelle, Emily and Ollie

Offline Nicola

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Re: Working Cocker Puppies and Soft Toys?
« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2013, 05:29:15 PM »
Thanks for all the advice - really interesting and helpful.
Nicola I am aiming to get to a stage where I am entering Field Trials, that is what I would love to do, but she is a pet too and kept in the house.

I think you might be thinking more of working tests as you're new to gundog training - field trials are professional level competitions and dogs and handlers have to reach an extremely high standard to even qualify to run. If you don't have experience of training dogs for field trials you would need to have her assessed by a professional handler to see if she'd be good enough - very few dogs have what it takes to trial - and unless you've got almost unlimited access to game to shoot over her she'd have to go to them for most of the training so they could do this and put the trialling 'polish' on her.

I've been through the process with Caoimhe, my almost 5 year old bitch, who made up to FTCh last year in her 3rd season of competing but it took nearly 4 years of endless work, time and money to get her there, and she spent most of the time living away from home (in her trainer's kennels, she lived at home when with me but when in serious training and competing always in kennels). I did her basic training then started her on cold game after she was assessed as having trialling potential, but she then had to go to stay with her trainer from about 10 months onwards so he could do the intensive live game work with her and put the 'polish' on her. I've been training dogs to work since I was a teenager but I don't have the facilities to train one to trialling standard, or the experience to get them much past novice level yet. Field tests on the other hand are carried out with dummies and can be entered by anyone, most gundog clubs and societies will run these in the summer months and they are often held at game fairs etc. as well. Ironically although trialling is the professional side of it the prizes in field tests are far better, the only 'prize' per se in trialling is if the dog makes up to FTCh, in tests you can win cars and all sorts :lol2:

Nicola have you got any advice with getting her to give me the dummy? She will pick it up like lightening and comes back quickly but will do a lap of honour around me and sit about a metre away chewing and throwing it around. I have tried everything to get her interested in coming up but she seems to be having more fun playing with it herself. I have tried getting a ball out but then she will drop the dummy and come running up to get the ball. Such a shame as she had it so perfect before!

You've got two issues to work on here - first the running past/circling and second the messing around with the dummy. First off though you need to drop the pressure for a while and make it less of a big deal, you've probably inadvertently overdone it on the retrieving with her at this age. As pups mine get maybe 3 or 4 very short retrieving sessions a week at most to keep it fresh and stop bad habits forming from overexcitement or boredom, or because they simply don't understand what they're meant to be doing yet because the hold and delivery of a picked up item hasn't been established. Working bred dogs seldom need to be taught to actually retrieve, that comes naturally to most - they need to be taught what to do with something they've picked up, which is to bring it to you and put it in your hand  - this as I said before is the main reason why I don't tend to have toys lying around the house when they're pups.

Stop giving her the opportunity to mess around - stop doing retrieves with her while you establish her 'hold' and 'dead'/'give' (whatever word you use). Backchain the process, play 'give and take' in the house; sit in a chair with her sitting in front of you and no other distractions in the room. Give her the dummy saying 'hold' and praise her verbally and by stroking her all over whilst she remains seated in front of you holding the dummy - ideally you don't need to actually teach a pup to 'hold' as they do it naturally, but in this situation I would do this. Rub her chest and scratch under her chin and as she lifts her head gently take the dummy saying 'dead' or 'give' or whatever word you use and praise her to high heaven. Do not use food or tennis balls as swaps, you don't want her to start spitting out the dummy. Repeat ad infinitum so she associates great things with holding and giving the dummy to you. Once she really has this 100% put the dummy on the floor in front of you and have her pick it up and present it and again repeat and repeat before moving on to putting the dummy on the floor in front of you and taking a step or two away and then progress to very short throws in your hallway (all exits blocked off so there's nowhere for her to go other than to you) and then in a quiet, boring place outside - if you have an alleyway down the side of your house you can block off at one end while you stand at the other this is ideal, or you can make a retrieving lane by partitioning off a channel in the garden or use a fence or wall. Build up the distance and distractions gradually and if at any time she starts messing around go back a stage. These habits can be hard to break once they've formed but this should resolve it if done consistently and if she doesn't get the chance to practice the unwanted behaviour any further. Whatever you do don't overdo it though, at this stage they don't need loads of retrieves every day, keep sessions short, keep retrieves short and don't do it all the time. Keep it fun and keep it simple!

For the running past/running in circles thing always position yourself so she can't run around you - back against a wall or even better in a corner; sit down and stick your legs out to make a channel for her to come right up to you. As soon as she picks anything up call her to you enthusiastically but don't be too quick to take the dummy from her. For dogs that shake or mess around with dummies using a heavier one can help - 2lb instead of 1lb - and cut the toggles off so there are no flappy bits. Again, don't overdo it though - better 3 good retrieves a week than 3 messy ones every day!

If this doesn't make sense or you need any clarification just pm me!
Nicola, Tilly, Rodaidh and Caoimhe x



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Offline Hannahc7

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Re: Working Cocker Puppies and Soft Toys?
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2013, 08:32:01 AM »
Thank you so much Michelle and Nicola, fantastic advice! I tried 'hold' this morning briefly with not much luck, she just gets so over excited.
I will keep on trying and keep it short. Nicola I have PM'd you.


Offline Ldavies38

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Re: Working Cocker Puppies and Soft Toys?
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2014, 04:37:51 PM »
Sorry to butt in on this thread. As its a bit old. My pup is 7 1/2 months. We're in the same position. 1st dog. And gosh it's so hard. I heard the whistle from another dog owner today in the park. And this beautiful little springer was doing everything asked of him. While I watched with my mouth open. in ore!! I went home in a mood. ....... As mine was a terror today
First time cocker owner 🐶