How many pips

[MUDDYBOOTS]

Hi this is a very basic question but how many pips on the whistle do you use when working your dog.

Just started to train Gabby who is almost eight months and I use.

One pip (Bit longer than other pips) as stop whistle.

Then trainer said use two pips to recall her and he also seams to use two pips as a turn command when hunting his dogs.I am probably not getting this,but if shes quartering and I double pip her she comes back to me so do you have different pip commands for turn and for recall or use the same for both.

Does that make any sense.

Thanks.

[Nicola]

It doesn't really matter what you use as long as it's clear and consistent, but I use one longer pip for stop, one short for turn and two short for recall. This is also what Caoimhe's field trial trainer/handler uses. I can't see why a trainer would use an identical whistle cue for turn and recall - how is the dog meant to know what you want it to do That just seems to create a lot of potential to confuse them as you've found with Gabby.

[Emilyoliver]

I, and my trainer, use two pips for a turn as well as for recall (with recall being repeated double pips). The basis behind two pips for both is that a turn is taught initially as a recall followed by a cast past to establish the quartering pattern (if that makes sense). The dogs don't seem to confuse the two as the recall 'proper' has different body language associated with it.

[MUDDYBOOTS]

  ,Thanks,two very good answers,that explain a lot.

 Nicola,that's exactly what I thought,but a bit  to say anything to trainer who works and breeds FTCH.

 Emilyoliver,that's how my trainer works his dogs,and now you have explained the logic behind it it makes sense ,thanks.

[Nicola]

I, and my trainer, use two pips for a turn as well as for recall (with recall being repeated double pips). The basis behind two pips for both is that a turn is taught initially as a recall followed by a cast past to establish the quartering pattern (if that makes sense). The dogs don't seem to confuse the two as the recall 'proper' has different body language associated with it.

What if the dog can't see you though? When we're at the shoot or Caoimhe was trialling the dogs are more often than not in really heavy cover and you can't see them and vice versa so they don't know what your body language is. I also don't want them to have to pause and look at me every time I turn them to check that's what I want as it interrupts the flow of their working. If it's always repeated double pips for recall as opposed to just two pips I get it though as that is a different cue, although I would call that 'multiple pips' 'cos I'm easily confused like that

[Emilyoliver]

I, and my trainer, use two pips for a turn as well as for recall (with recall being repeated double pips). The basis behind two pips for both is that a turn is taught initially as a recall followed by a cast past to establish the quartering pattern (if that makes sense). The dogs don't seem to confuse the two as the recall 'proper' has different body language associated with it.

What if the dog can't see you though? When we're at the shoot or Caoimhe was trialling the dogs are more often than not in really heavy cover and you can't see them and vice versa so they don't know what your body language is. I also don't want them to have to pause and look at me every time I turn them to check that's what I want as it interrupts the flow of their working. If it's always repeated double pips for recall as opposed to just two pips I get it though as that is a different cue, although I would call that 'multiple pips' 'cos I'm easily confused like that

It's multiple pips (2+2+2+ until he's on his way back and/or can see me) i suppose, but two pips on their own automatically works to turn him working towards me whatever direction he is in when he hears it (??).   If he gets to my feet and I want him to stop, then i stop him, if not he carries on past me until i ask him to turn/stop/whatever. And they usually know that when they're hunting they're hunting.  Pip  doesn't look at me every time I turn him -and i don't recall him often once he's hunting.  He's usually stopped first then directed or recalled if he's 'working'.  Different ways of doing things, but successful handlers/ trainers using both I reckon (no expert as we're new to it all, but it's working fine for us)..  It would appear most use one longer pip for stop so that's at least consistent!!