CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Feeding => Topic started by: CrunchyMand on June 15, 2015, 10:56:56 AM
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I'm looking into feeding Oscar on a raw food diet, buying in the frozen stuff that I can feed him. But how do I work out how much to feed him. He needs to lose lots of weight, so do I feed him based on his target weight 17kg, or his actual weight he is now?
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Logically, no more than the amount for his target weight I would have thought, but I defer to others with more hands on experience of doggie weight loss programes!
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For his target weight :)
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Target weight. Adult raw fed dogs are usually fed between 2% and 3% of their ideal bodyweight per day. So based on Oscar's target weight of 17kg you could start him on 2.5% and see how he goes.
17000g x 2.5% = 425g raw food per day.
If you're on Facebook a good raw feeding group to join is Raw Feeding UK, which has a start up guide and lots of useful info. in the files. Raw Feeding Rebels is meant to be good too.
Have you decided what you're going to feed?
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Target weight. Adult raw fed dogs are usually fed between 2% and 3% of their ideal bodyweight per day. So based on Oscar's target weight of 17kg you could start him on 2.5% and see how he goes.
17000g x 2.5% = 425g raw food per day.
If you're on Facebook a good raw feeding group to join is Raw Feeding UK, which has a start up guide and lots of useful info. in the files. Raw Feeding Rebels is meant to be good too.
Have you decided what you're going to feed?
Please can I crash-in on this topic.
I've just come back from the vets,(booster) Kez who is 5 years old weighs 15k, the vet as written ideal weight 13k. I only feed her 175g Raw (natures menue) plus breakfast of 1/3rd of an oatibix (to try to bulk up her stools, for her anal glands) she also has raw vegetables when we have our evening meal. plus odd treats, but I try not to over-do-these.
My worry is using your calculations she is under-fed by a lot, she should be having 325 /350g of raw, less a little for the oatibix. No wonder she always seems hungry :005: What would you all do :dunno: Julie
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That's great, I've been reading loads and think this is the way to go for Oscar for his weight loss and for his health, he is quite dandruffy. The dog groomer thinks he has a yeast problem so raw should help with that. I'm going to Pets at Home to look at the Nature's Menu stuff to start me off. Being a vegan I find this hard, but need to do the best for my dog.
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Target weight. Adult raw fed dogs are usually fed between 2% and 3% of their ideal bodyweight per day. So based on Oscar's target weight of 17kg you could start him on 2.5% and see how he goes.
17000g x 2.5% = 425g raw food per day.
If you're on Facebook a good raw feeding group to join is Raw Feeding UK, which has a start up guide and lots of useful info. in the files. Raw Feeding Rebels is meant to be good too.
Have you decided what you're going to feed?
Please can I crash-in on this topic.
I've just come back from the vets,(booster) Kez who is 5 years old weighs 15k, the vet as written ideal weight 13k. I only feed her 175g Raw (natures menue) plus breakfast of 1/3rd of an oatibix (to try to bulk up her stools, for her anal glands) she also has raw vegetables when we have our evening meal. plus odd treats, but I try not to over-do-these.
My worry is using your calculations she is under-fed by a lot, she should be having 325 /350g of raw, less a little for the oatibix. No wonder she always seems hungry :005: What would you all do :dunno: Julie
Hi Julie1
Have you thought of adding extra bone to her meals, if her stools need bulking out it could be that she is not getting enough bone in her diet, bone is very important in raw feeding ?
Sharon
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Target weight. Adult raw fed dogs are usually fed between 2% and 3% of their ideal bodyweight per day. So based on Oscar's target weight of 17kg you could start him on 2.5% and see how he goes.
17000g x 2.5% = 425g raw food per day.
If you're on Facebook a good raw feeding group to join is Raw Feeding UK, which has a start up guide and lots of useful info. in the files. Raw Feeding Rebels is meant to be good too.
Have you decided what you're going to feed?
Please can I crash-in on this topic.
I've just come back from the vets,(booster) Kez who is 5 years old weighs 15k, the vet as written ideal weight 13k. I only feed her 175g Raw (natures menue) plus breakfast of 1/3rd of an oatibix (to try to bulk up her stools, for her anal glands) she also has raw vegetables when we have our evening meal. plus odd treats, but I try not to over-do-these.
My worry is using your calculations she is under-fed by a lot, she should be having 325 /350g of raw, less a little for the oatibix. No wonder she always seems hungry :005: What would you all do :dunno: Julie
Hi Julie1
Have you thought of adding extra bone to her meals, if her stools need bulking out it could be that she is not getting enough bone in her diet, bone is very important in raw feeding ?
Sharon
Thanks Sharon, I used to give her 1 or 2 chicken wings everyday (depending on size) but the lady where I buy her food said she had spoken to the manufacturers for another person & was told that in the "Chicken" the whole carcases is minced-up, therefore she now has 2 or 3 a week because her meal is often chicken or lamb & chicken, sometimes she has a a lamb rib. With the oatibix or oats her stools are now larger.
Today I got the vet to show me how to empty her glands & discovered they are higher-up than normal, so maybe that is why she doesn't empty them normally. Earlier in the year they became infected so that is why I'm a bit obsessed with them.
It's really the amount of raw food she has compared to the amount she should be having that concerns me & she always seems hungry but is overweight (she has Advocate so no worms)
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I guess some dogs burn food quicker than others, I too am obsessed with my girls weight, I always check that she has a waist from above and that I can feel her ribs with out prodding too much.
Some vets like dogs to be on the lean side , vets have different opinions on most things and the tables on the food packets are just a guide.
If you google body condition score chart you can compare your dog to it.
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I also raw feed. I find lamb is really fattening and have to limit how much I give Pearl.
Dogs don't really understand the concept of variety, to them it's s source of energy unless it's been trained /conditioned into them that eating is a reward ;) if you find one type of meat that suits both weight loss and the anal gland problem I would stick to it until Oscars goal weight is achieved :D and don't feel guilty that he's not getting a choice of meals!
I'd also drop the oatibix as they are bound with sugar - I had them until I realised how many calories were in a single one! Far better to increase the bone quantity. If Oscar is still looking for food raw veg is great to bulk out, provided it's served whole as dogs cannot digest the cellulose in veg or fruit (just as we can't ;)) if it's pulped or mashed it increases the calorie content and the cellulose is converted to sugars.....which natures menu does.....
Pearl should be 12Kg 8-10 nuggets of natures menu is plenty twice a day for her.
Pearl also had anal glands problems but no amount of fibre or changing her diet stopped the infections. They were removed 18 months ago and (most of the time, pre-pup ph34r) she's a lot less grumpy than she was before the procedure.
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Hi Jinley has been on raw since she was a pup and I have now started to include a small amount of bran flakes in her food on the advice of my vet. Whilst she was having chicken wings making her poos small and firm, they werent bulky enough to empty her glands (we have just suffered from a nasty abscess) and the bran flakes seem to be working, but will know more after her monthly check up.
You could use veg added to Oscars food to make him feel fuller for longer.
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Duck necks help my dog with anal probs. Bran made no difference at all. Also removing chicken from her raw diet helped too, the nice lady at Natural instinct suggested that as some dogs don't get on well with it.
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Hi Jinley has been on raw since she was a pup and I have now started to include a small amount of bran flakes in her food on the advice of my vet. Whilst she was having chicken wings making her poos small and firm, they werent bulky enough to empty her glands (we have just suffered from a nasty abscess) and the bran flakes seem to be working, but will know more after her monthly check up.
You could use veg added to Oscars food to make him feel fuller for longer.
This is how Kez's poos were. It was the vet who told me it wasn't bulky enough to empty the glands and to add bran (which didn't seem to do anything) or oats. Last year because of itching I dropped off any wheat products, hence oats.
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That's great, I've been reading loads and think this is the way to go for Oscar for his weight loss and for his health, he is quite dandruffy. The dog groomer thinks he has a yeast problem so raw should help with that. I'm going to Pets at Home to look at the Nature's Instinct stuff to start me off. Being a vegan I find this hard, but need to do the best for my dog.
It will help with the yeast problem, some raw feeders limit added fruit and veg as this can add to the yeast.
It can take a while for you to see improvements, for Bea her coat was softer etc in around 3 weeks but her yeast infections took a few months.
Good luck.
Sharon.
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I checked the ingredient list on oatibix last night and they do contain sugar. 2 biscuits = 190 so 1/3 of 1 is a huge 32 calories which is around 5% of a dogs daily intake!
I've also just educated myself on gravy bones (35 cals each) milky bones (40 cals each) and Dentalstix which are 70 calories each :o
Off to purchase carrots ph34r
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Hi, I am joining in on this post quiet a long way down and have not read all of the posts !!
We have the working type cocker, their sizes do vary qiiet a lot, having said that ours are not the big ones!
Our dogs have 1/2 lb of raw meat/bone of various types each per day, this maintains a good body weight during the summer period, obviously in the working/beating season when they are VERY active this may need to be increased.
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I checked the ingredient list on oatibix last night and they do contain sugar. 2 biscuits = 190 so 1/3 of 1 is a huge 32 calories which is around 5% of a dogs daily intake!
I've also just educated myself on gravy bones (35 cals each) milky bones (40 cals each) and Dentalstix which are 70 calories each :o
Off to purchase carrots ph34r
I had a little chuckle about the carrots :lol2:, I've just bought a larger bag than usual this morning.
re the Oatibix, we will have to eat them :shades: & Kez can have raw oats on her meat instead, which she does have sometimes now.
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I want to try to avoid feeding Oscar any veg as I don't think he needs it and it will just bring up his carb content which won't help with his yeast infection. Raw seems to be the way to go!
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CrunchyMand have you had a chance to look at the FB sites elain.e mentioned ?
Nutrition is so important especially as our dogs cannot tell us they are unwell or not feeling right, I only mention it as my girl has a issue with her Calcium levels and we nearly lost her last week, it was not down to her diet but she may have been coping with it for a while, the signs where very subtle and that's if you know what you are looking for , which we didn't!
Sharon.
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I want to try to avoid feeding Oscar any veg as I don't think he needs it and it will just bring up his carb content which won't help with his yeast infection. Raw seems to be the way to go!
If raw veg is given whole then they can't absorb very much from it hence using it as a filler - dogs digestive systems are very rudimentary unlike ours ;). Green beans, broccoli stalks, cabbage and veg lower in sugars would be better so limited carrot and sugar snap peas (top veg in this house and used for training :lol2:) obviously there are some not to feed at all such as avocado, asparagus and sweetcorn ph34r
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I know Oscar is obese and it makes me very sad when I look at him- it has been a cumulative effect of others looking after him whilst I was in hospital, and lots of other reasons I don't want to go into.
The vet is very cross I have stopped the Hills prescription diet, but his health was not good and I looked at the ingredients and its full of cr@p.
I've considered Burns high oats but its mainly oats and i can't see how this can be good for him.
I honestly don't know what's the best food to feed him.
I was hoping the natural raw food will help him lose weight. I'm feeding him 1.5% of his target weight, which I think should be 15kg.
I can't ask the vet for advice as she wants him on Hills.
I've upped his walks from 1 to 2 hours a day. Done in 3 bits.
We are back at the vets in 2 weeks where he will be weighed and I really want him to have lost some weight, if he hasn't I might have to concede and put him on a prescription diet.
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I really feel for both you and Oscar. From the various posts I've read, you are obviously taking his required weightloss seriously and trying to do the very best for him :D
I've not caught up with your other thread yet but do think 1.5% of his final target weight is a bit severe - normally the recommendation is to cut back slowly by reducing by a few gramms each day or the usual 3% of target body weight and reduce his target as he reaches it......
Don't give up hope - you've been doing all the right things for Oscar and will get lots of support from all of us here :D
How is Oscar? Is he coping ok with his strict diet and new exercise regime?
Jayne
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Maybe I should up his food to 2% of his target weight? 1% did not look like a lot in his bowl this morning. He is very slow on our walks but he enjoys going out for them once I have dragged him off the sofa, we walk at 7am, 10am then 4.30pm every day, hoping this will make a difference.
I think I worked out he should be getting 500 calories a day so I will input his chicken in a calorie counter to check it's the right amount.
The more I read the more I think that a species appropriate diet is the way to go
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Maybe I should up his food to 2% of his target weight? 1% did not look like a lot in his bowl this morning. He is very slow on our walks but he enjoys going out for them once I have dragged him off the sofa, we walk at 7am, 10am then 4.30pm every day, hoping this will make a difference.
I think I worked out he should be getting 500 calories a day so I will input his chicken in a calorie counter to check it's the right amount.
The more I read the more I think that a species appropriate diet is the way to go
I think I'd go for 2% of his target weight and a steady weight loss rather than a sudden one. I'm sure he'll be more excited about getting off the sofa once he starts to lose weight and feel fitter, bless him. I know how he feels!
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I feel sooo sorry for you :-* Its not easy especially if your vet isn't supportive.
If it were me.......regardless of the vet, I would decide what I want to feed[/i ]be it kibble or raw, then stick to it, do it over a period, crash diets are no good for us humans, just a small loss is to be proud of. good luck Julie
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I'm sticking with raw, Oscar loves it and doesn't seem hungry on it. I'm giving him 2%. The dentastix are gone and today after our hour long walk he got a carrot to much on (he loves carrots) I also let him off lead for the half hour we were on the meadows, he kept close but seemed to enjoy the freedom. He's getting weighed in 2 weeks at the vets (so hoping to see some shift) and the dog groomer (who feeds BARF) has offered to weigh him every month for me, so I can check we are going in the right direction.
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crunchymand, sounds as if you are doing fabulously. I'm a new girl at this doggy stuff as my wcs is just a year old. However, for what it's worth, my vet said he couldn't recommend raw but my dog Maisy does look blinking good on it :DThose were his very words :005:When Maisy came off kibble as a puppy she became less hungry, less hyperactive and stopped poo eating. Keep up the good work 😄 :
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I've spoken to the vet nurse and told her I'm feeding Oscar raw, she said it will make it difficult for her to advise me on the amounts to feed him (cos she has no idea) She was very supportive though and didn't lecture, she just said she is sure I have done my reading. She said they will know if the amount is right according to the weight he is losing.
Here's the thing:
Honey's dog food (who are giving away a free weight loss dog book based on raw feeding, so one is in the post to me.) gave me some advice. They quoted me food for Oscar based on 1% of his current weight meaning he gets 300g a day.
i've been feeding him 2% of his target weight(15kg) which is the same amount as Honey's recommend 300g, BUT the vet nurse thinks this amount will be too little for Oscar and he will be starving, and will lose weight too quickly.
I don't know whether to set his target weight to 20kg and feed him 2% of that (then when he reaches 20kg, reduce the target to 15kg)
Or should I set his target weight higher?
Starting next week Oscar will be weighed fortnightly, so I can see that his weight is going down.
He had tea of chicken, with ground bone in, apple and carrot and seemed v happy.
I've noticed just how little he drinks now, he used to drink so very much when he was on nasty Hill's, he must have been very dehydrated. He also weed a lot, often in the house during the night. No such problems now.
I've found a hydrotherapy pool and will be taking him monthly for a 30 minute swim.
Most days we walk 2 hours, today we did 2 1/2. He walks very slowly but enjoys himself.
Anyway, how much do you think I should feed him?
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There are others better placed to help you with quantities, but when I changed my two on to RAW I felt the amount they were getting was small. BUT it was fine for them, I assume the good quality means that you need less. I tweaked things slightly as I went along once I gained a bit of confidence. In addition, the amount they drank definitely went down, so that was a good thing. I think you have researched this, planned it and are doing great. x
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This is what Nature's Menu say:
It is Safe to give slightly less if need be as no 2 dogs are the same.
Feed for the weight you want the dog to be, unless this would mean a big drop in food, if so then gradually reduce over 2 week period down to weight you want the dog to be.
Use one of the lower fat minces such as Fish or Chicken or Beef mix.
Go 'Grain Free' for a while. This can often assist with weight loss.
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I would be more than happy to take advice from "Natures Menu", their company vet is Nick Thompson, a fantastic vet who has researched and is well educated in raw feeding!
He has done a lot of research into dog and cat nutrition and biology. I would happily listen to his advice
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Right good idea. I will reduce his amount gradually over the next few months, starting with a high target weight. I will start with giving him 375g (1.5% of 25kg or should I go for 2% of 25kg?) a day for a week or two then reduce it further. I will know more when I keep getting him weighed to see if it's the right amount. He seems nice and content on his food, and no doubt feels better now the grains and artificial crap from Hill's are out of his system. His skin looks a lot better.
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You & Oscar seem to be doing o.k.
His drinking will reduce enormously because he is not eating (sawdust) lots of filler, just pure meat.
Most vets are happy for you to just "pop-in" for weigh at any time, fortnightly sounds about right though.
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I've had a read around and decided to give him 400g a day which is 2% of 20kg. This 200g per meal looks a lot and no doubt will fill him up. I hope to see weight loss and if so will keep up with this amount. Oscar is loving his food so much. I just can't believe how little he is needing to drink now, it's a huge difference! He had a raw egg today and even munched on the shell to my surprise!
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Its not an exact science as I think you're finding - very much dog dependant. My 6 yr old was on 2% for a number of years an stable at 10kg, since i've had a second dog her weight dropped to 9kgs, purely from the extra activity of having him around. So she gets a little more now, but not much as 9.5 is about right for her.
See how he does on 2%, that and the increased exercise etc will hopefully shift some weight. If you don't see it then drop slightly. The reduction in water intake is very normal as the pick up a lot more moisture from the meat itself. Am sure he wasn't dehydrated before, just had to get it from elsewhere :)
Good luck!
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I've been feeding 1% of his current weight for 2 weeks coupled with an increase in walks and in 2 weeks he's lost 1.3kg. So chuffed to have found raw and found a way that works for healthy weight loss- finally have hope we can do this. Thanks for all the support. The vet didn't even challenge me when she found out I was feeding raw!
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I've been feeding 1% of his current weight for 2 weeks coupled with an increase in walks and in 2 weeks he's lost 1.3kg. So chuffed to have found raw and found a way that works for healthy weight loss- finally have hope we can do this. Thanks for all the support. The vet didn't even challenge me when she found out I was feeding raw!
That's a brilliant result in such a short space of time - way to go Oscar :banana: you must be so pleased
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Good for you & Oscar :clapping:............the vet really didn't have a leg to stand-on when what you are doing is working, it's a shame more vets aren't in favour of raw.
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1% on a raw diet is quite low. Think I would be feeding 2% of his target weight. Raw feeding is variety over time . Oily fish and lean meats like rabbit, chicken, turkey and veal, offal.
Erica.
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He was 30kg, so 1% was 300g. His target weight is 15kg, so 2% of that is 300g
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Well done you and Oscar! 300g sounds right long-term. We feed our cocker that and she's a good weight and shape. I don't count the veg in the weight though, just weigh out the 300g of meat/egg/fish/offal/bone and then chuck some cooked veg on top.
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yes the 300g is just the meat. I grate some carrot, apple, courgette, green beans in etc
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Hi just wondering how Oscar (and you) are getting on with his diet?
Jayne
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Hi there
Not sure if you've sent this to the right person, but I did put a post on here regarding raw food diet but my dog's name is Toby. He suffered badly from upset guts and was for the most part on antibiotics for 2 years. All tests were inconclusive but the antibiotics seemed to sort him out. I decided to give the raw food a try more or less as a last resort 7 weeks ago and the change has been dramatic. I've not had to take him to the vets once and I think it's even prevented the anal gland problem that Toby had. So for anyone else with similar problems, I'd say don't hesitate, give it a try.
Hope this helps.
Pam
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Mollie is 12k and has 2.5% which is 300g. She has half for breakfast (150g) and the other half for dinner with a snack at lunchtime.