CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Behaviour & Training => Topic started by: Mittens on August 19, 2014, 04:16:47 PM
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Hi, I just need some advice please....
I've just had the most awful incident - a man collected a parcel and was fluffing about writing the receipt, he said don't worry I'll post it through the box (was in dressing gown as just got out of shower). I ran upstairs then heard banging on the door and when i opened it he said a dog had bit his finger as he posted the card....he must have put his fingers right into the slot! It was bleeding - but he said it might be broken (although i felt that kind of damage would have been done when he yanked his hand out of the slot?)...I am and was utterly mortified, can't stop crying as neither dog has ever ever gone to bite anyone, although one does run off with the post from the doormat.... he's headed to hospital for a tetanus and says he is going to report it....i'm so scared what might happen now?
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He sounds a right old drama queen.
I would just see if he contacts you and go from there. There will be someone on here who will have sound advice for you I am sure.
In the meantime try not to make it worse by tying yourself up in knots about it.
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My advice...
Go have a very sugary drink. Like a tea with sugar or something. You could be experiencing shock.
This will help relax you.
Make sure your dog is also relaxed as he will pick up on your emotions.
Im sure it will be fine. The guy will prob get home and tell his mates down the pub and take it no further. He sounds like he has a lot of hot air but I highly doubt anything will come of it.
Focus on relaxing yourself and your furbaby. :)
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You have a dog that bites at the mail. He didn't mean to bite a person, he wanted to get the mail.
It's a shame that the delivery man has taken it this way and wants to take it further. I don't think that anyone could think you have a dangerous dog but as a recognition that this could happen again I would purchase a cage to go over your letter slot to prevent any further incidents ;)
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What evidence do you have that either dog bit him? Or that if one did, he hadn't provoked it? Its his word against yours and he could easily have caught a finger on something in the letter box or a previous delivery...some folk make a living out of this sort of thing, sadly - and always at the expense of someone else.
Years ago a neighbour complained to the Police that I had a "nasty, viscious dog" the Police arrived to find my GSDx Lab rolling on his back expecting a tummy tickle... He was also the adopted Regimental mascot for the OHs work. Needless to say they left to have a word with the neighbour about wasting their tiime.
Sweet tea is good advice. Dave's comment of the delivery driver being a Drama Queen is spot on
Hopefully by the time he's got into his van and driven somewhere he will have calmed down and let's it go
This could so easily be any of us - my heart goes out to you, I can only imagine how upset you must be
Jayne
X
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I should think the absolute worst that could happen is that the delivery company could insist you provide a suitable letter box that will protect the delivery mans fingers, thats not really unreasonable if he was actually nipped. Many dogs snap at things coming through the letterbox, It's quite normal and a delivery man should expect it. We had a sort of incident when Beau and I were in the front garden and a delivery man came in through the front gate, Beau had a bark at him whereupon the delivery man claimed Beau had tried to bite him. I pointed out that the dog hadn't gone close to him at all but the man still muttered about reporting us - that was a year ago and not surprisingly nothing has happened.
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You have a dog that bites at the mail. He didn't mean to bite a person, he wanted to get the mail.
It's a shame that the delivery man has taken it this way and wants to take it further. I don't think that anyone could think you have a dangerous dog but as a recognition that this could happen again I would purchase a cage to go over your letter slot to prevent any further incidents ;)
Was going to say exactly the same...
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You have a dog that bites at the mail. He didn't mean to bite a person, he wanted to get the mail.
It's a shame that the delivery man has taken it this way and wants to take it further. I don't think that anyone could think you have a dangerous dog but as a recognition that this could happen again I would purchase a cage to go over your letter slot to prevent any further incidents ;)
Was going to say exactly the same...
Absolutely agree..... if they do contact you then you can say you've taken steps to ensure it doesn't happen again. But at the end of the days, anyone actually sticking their fingers through my letter box would get the same treatment because Maggie takes the mail...
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You have a dog that bites at the mail. He didn't mean to bite a person, he wanted to get the mail.
It's a shame that the delivery man has taken it this way and wants to take it further. I don't think that anyone could think you have a dangerous dog but as a recognition that this could happen again I would purchase a cage to go over your letter slot to prevent any further incidents ;)
As others have said this is a sensible precaution which shows you've taken things seriously but I hope he'll calm down and get on with his day. I'm sure he was shocked and grumpy but time will help him calm down and get some perspective. You poor thing what a rotten shock .
:bigarmhug:
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Louis snatches anything that comes through the letterbox and I'm sure that would include fingers. Because of the layout of our hall I can't fit one of those wire cage things over the letterbox, so I have a babygate across the hall so that neither dog has access to the letterbox or door.
I think if the man makes an official complaint it's possible you may be contacted by the police or dog warden, so if you can have something fitted to the letterbox or an outside letterbox fitted asap, you can show that you've already taken action to stop something similar happening again.
Looking at it from the delivery man's point of view, he had no reason to think that he might get bitten, so I expect he was shocked as well as in pain when it happened and I'm sure his instinctive reaction was to pull his hand back, which could have made the injury worse. But what else could he do?
I'm sure that most of us dog owners would think twice about putting our fingers through a letterbox with a dog the other side of it, but people who don't have dogs might not realise. If this man is employed by a delivery company he may have had some kind of safety briefing or guide from his employer. So if he makes a complaint that might be something you could follow up. But if he's self employed, as many of these drivers are, he might have no idea that some dogs snatch things that come through the letterbox, and he might lose income if he can't drive or handle parcels for a few days, which is another reason he might make a complaint.
Hopefully nothing will come of it and the man will have got over the shock of it by now and will feel calmer and will just make a mental note not to do the same thing again. Even if it's followed up I really don't see that your dogs will be labelled as dangerous. But taking steps to ensure it doesn't happen again is sensible just in case it's followed up.
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Did he actually have teeth marks? On the many occasions I have been bitten by Harry when he was new to us and traumatised, there was always very clear teeth/bite marks which then bruised later.
Not being funny but some of those letter boxes can grab at your fingers and pinch, I can't see a cocker biting fingers through a letterbox would break a finger :dunno: A dog grabbing the post is more likely to nip the ends of his fingers and I would be amazed if it was hard enough to draw blood.
I don't think he can do a lot your dog was on your property, and inside your house under control!! A mesh cover would soon stop anything like that happening again and leave no room for doubt. Try not to worry too much
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There's a good point starting to come through.... Why would anyone who delivers parcels for a living, knowingly, put their fingers through a letter box when they already knew there were dogs in the house?
Odd
Or am I just being cynical?
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There's a good point starting to come through.... Why would anyone who delivers parcels for a living, knowingly, put their fingers through a letter box when they already knew there were dogs in the house?
Odd
Or am I just being cynical?
Was thinking the same jayne
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Something that's not really been mentioned yet is The Dangerous Dogs Act and the changes that came into effect in May 2014, which extended the Act to include private property instead of just public areas, which is all the Act originally covered.
Effectively it means we all need to be very careful about how people who come on to our private property view the actions and behaviours of our dogs. William is very friendly, but if he jumped up at someone to greet them and they were frightened or his nails scratched their legs, or if he gave a few excited barks and startled them, he could be the subject of a complaint. I've always been careful with Louis, knowing that he's fearful of strangers, but now I make sure that neither dog can get to the door when I open it to anyone but close friends and family.
This gives some advice http://www.nawt.org.uk/sites/default/files/docs/DDA%20Changes%20AdviceF.pdf
mittens, I thought long and hard before posting this tonight, because it won't make encouraging reading for you. But even if a formal complaint is made I'm sure that common sense would prevail in this sort of incident. There's a huge difference between this and a genuinely dangerous dog.
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Thanks for posting this Elaine there is a lot of info there I wasn't aware of, so it is useful to know. I actually think it is helpful for mittens as well, as like you say common sense would prevail in this sort of incident and currently it is a hard enough job for police and dog wardens to keep up with genuinely serious dog attacks.
If it were me and it was taken further, just having read this info shows responsibility as a dog owner along with putting proactive solutions into place such the guard on the letterbox.
Like others say I bet it won't go any further, but even if it were to, I would imagine authorities would see this was a genuine accident rather than a dog attack, and treat it as such.
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Thanks all - i just had to do a 250 mile car journey for work tomorrow so too tired and emotional to really comment now. I am aware of the DD act amendments and quite frankly that is what is upsetting me so much. But i have two spaniels and genuinely dont know which one nipped him - nor would he cos it was through a locked door - i guess i have all sorts of questions about the process now in the event of a complaint - but will think more sensibly tomorrow x
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You have a dog that bites at the mail. He didn't mean to bite a person, he wanted to get the mail.
It's a shame that the delivery man has taken it this way and wants to take it further. I don't think that anyone could think you have a dangerous dog but as a recognition that this could happen again I would purchase a cage to go over your letter slot to prevent any further incidents ;)
I fully agree with the above ^^ statement.
One thing that does go through my mind is ...How far did he put his fingers through?? I'd thought as a postman he would have known better than to put them right through the letter box, that's begging for trouble.
I'd have assumed as a postman he would have been more far more careful. Many dogs don't like the mail coming into "their" space and tend to bark and nip at it.
I know it is easier said than done but try not to stress too much :bigarmhug:
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I had exactly the same thing happen to me with our old border collie and a woman delivering leaflets. Tess caught her finger as she put the leaflet through the letter box. I too, was distraught and offered to help her bathe and wash the cut but she was having none of it. Some nosey passers by said I should do something but I was at a loss what else I could offer to do. I contacted the police as I was terrified something would come of the incident but the police woman just laughed and said she shouldn't have put her fingers through the letterbox! As the letterbox was at the bottom of the door we couldn't put a cage on it so we installed an outdoor letterbox and sealed up the old one. You'd be amazed how many idiots have prized it open though to stuff leaflets in despite the outdoor one being next to it! Try not to worry I'm sure nothing else will come of the incident.
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All excellent advice (as usual) hope you are now feeling a bit better about the incident, I hope when the bloke calms down, he will realise it was an accident. :bigarmhug:
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Just further to my previous post, if it was the postman after our incident I did speak to our post lady and she did tell me our address did have a dog warning on it at the post office in case any new or temp posties were delivering our mail.
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I hope that you are feeling just a little bit calmer this morning - things like this can be terribly upsetting. I would report the incident yourself; that may sound a bit odd, but it will rest your mind. Mail delivery people who are properly trained - whichever the company, should not deliver items by putting their hand in your house! Tell them exactly what happened and what preventative measures you intend to take (i.e. cage on mail flap etc.,) Whilst we hope the guy is OK, some people milk the situation for their own gain.....by getting in there first you have the advantage. :blink:
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He put HIS fingers through YOUR letter box. I had my fingers bitten whilst posting leaflets through doors. My thought was it was my fault, I didn't complain to the owners , I now use a spatula to push leaflets through. I wouldn't worry.
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Mittens....
All you need to remember this is the first incident, you are not sure which dog it was however, you have taken immediate steps to correct the problem and are fitting a suitable guard to stop the dogs jumping at the door.
;)
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Thank you everyone. I do feel a little calmer today. I am away for work for three days, which doesn't help, but I haven't had any phone calls from the police or dog warden or indeed his company, as yet, so perhaps as others have said, once he calmed down a bit he reconsidered... I got myself in a right panic the dog(s) would be taken away and destroyed automatically, but I can see now from all your lovely replies and a look at the info elaine posted that even if the authorities did get involved, it would be likely (hopefully) they would take a more measured approach. Letter box guard will be the first thing I do when i get home - and perhaps some behaviour training to try keep them calmer when post comes?
(On a lighter note, I dreamed last night I went on the run with the dogs to evade capture! :o )
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One of my dogs did this years ago to a guy delivering leaflets for a political party :o we were not home at the time, but the man complained to a neighbour as his finger was bleeding. We phoned the dog warden to ask for advice who told us just to put a 'beware of the dog sign' within sight of the letterbox.
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If you do a quick google search you will see that this happens ALL the time. I'm quite surprised that any professional delivery person would risk putting their fingers through a letterbox. Whatever you do, don't google images. :o Like everyone else has said, try not to worry.
If you can't fix a cage to the inside if the door then you could get a box to mount on the outside of the house. I have one but you'd be surprised how many leaflet droppers don't seem to notice it and use the letterbox instead. It's not a problem with Archie, but if he was a serial post attacker, I might consider getting one of these to seal the box shut.
http://www.safetyletterbox.com/domestic/letterbox-security/index.php
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Yep I sealed my letterbox up too - prevention rather than cure in my case as I had two dogs that would go for anything put in the letterbox, so I put a postbox on the wall outside and sealed the letterbox both inside and out with white tape (the door is white)
It is surprising the number of folks who will still try to use the letterbox even with a notice on it guiding them to the box on the wall :doh:
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After reading this,I bought one of the letter box covers as some of my dogs go grabbing anything that is put through the letter box. Anyway our postie brought it today, told him what it was and why I got it. He said if he puts his fingers through the letterbox and got bitten it would be his own fault as he would be trespassing. He called another postie over and he said the same thing. I do have a very large post box on my wall, which he uses but despite taping my letterbox up, leaflet delivers ignore the box, tear the tape of the letterbox and stuff things through, seen them trying to do it even when there is a dog going mental behind the door, which they can see as it is part glass. The letterbox cover is good though just pulled the backing off and stuck it over the letterbox, locked it so no dogs can get anyone's fingers now.
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Am pleased you posted re the new amendments Elaine - this is why in Wales we wanted our own law whereby incidents like this can be dealt with reasonably but UK govt refused to let us - in Wales we wanted the act to include dog notices whereby the owner undergoes some sort of modifications either to training or in this case a letter guard to avoid any proceedings taking place within a certain prescribed time period (rather than punishing dog owners Wales wanted to educate dog owners)
At least now you know there is potentially a problem which could've been avoided by both parties and that its now sorted.
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After reading this,I bought one of the letter box covers as some of my dogs go grabbing anything that is put through the letter box. Anyway our postie brought it today, told him what it was and why I got it. He said if he puts his fingers through the letterbox and got bitten it would be his own fault as he would be trespassing. He called another postie over and he said the same thing. I do have a very large post box on my wall, which he uses but despite taping my letterbox up, leaflet delivers ignore the box, tear the tape of the letterbox and stuff things through, seen them trying to do it even when there is a dog going mental behind the door, which they can see as it is part glass. The letterbox cover is good though just pulled the backing off and stuck it over the letterbox, locked it so no dogs can get anyone's fingers now.
The new act supercedes this to be honest now - any incidents on private property with regard to dogs can now be punished by law (it used to be the case whereby an owner couldn't be unless incident happened in a public area)
Posties do have a new gadget to push items through letterboxes though - a simple piece of plastic (I have one here - was invited to a promotional event for the 'bite back' campaign with 2 of my dogs)
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Hello everyone - just an update - the delivery driver does not seem to have reported us to anyone, as I have had no letters or visits about the incident....we immediately put a wire letter box guard up as I just could not risk anything like this happening again (not easy to fit as we have mouldings on the door, but with some tin snips and imagination it's secure) and after a few days of flying at the box when the mail comes, the dogs now hear the post and totally ignore it, not even going to check the box out - thanks again for all your replies, they certainly helped when I was at my most upset about it all :luv:
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Thank you for the update, glad to hear that all is well and problem solved
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Excellent!
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That's good news !!!
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Glad you're feeling better about the incident :D
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Well done now you can relax put it behind you and enjoy your lovely dogs :D
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Glad to hear it's all ended ok and you can relax again now. :)
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Good news, thanks for the update
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Great news, glad you got it sorted and can relax now when deliveries are made
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This man has invaded the dogs space and the dog has not gone seeking to be aggressive. Legally this man would not have a leg to stand on if he reported it and if he had any sense he would not stick his fingers through a letter box where there is a dog on the other side.
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what good news to read :D
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Interestingly, I've just had a leaflet put through my door about this this morning - have a look at my thread...