CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Health => Topic started by: piph on November 27, 2017, 12:49:42 PM
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Hi everyone. Not been on COL for a while, so my apologies for only coming on when we've got a problem.
Over the last 4 - 6 weeks we've been finding very large puddles on several occasions indoors. At first OH blamed 9 month old goldie Jess (it couldn't possibly have been his favourite boy Ozzy!!! :shades:) but her toilet training was very rapid and she has been reliable for a long, long time now. Then I caught Ozzy in the act a week or two ago, doing an absolutely enormous wee in the middle of the kitchen floor, about 10.30 in the morning. Of course, we blamed ourselves for not letting him out enough, and also we've changed our routine a bit so we don't take them for their walks until 11 ish, rather than straight after breakfast. So we started to let him out at very frequent intervals. Sometimes he'd wee and sometimes not. Then I noticed he seemed to be drinking a lot. Saturday was the final straw. He did a huge puddle in the hall, outside the lounge door, again at about the same time in the morning. Then, when I got into bed that night, I found a very large wet patch - it had soaked right through a blanket, the duvet, the sheet, the mattress topper, and into the mattress! Needless to say I was not amused, and it entailed us spending the night in the spare room.
Ozzy has always been very reliable, and we haven't come down in the mornings to any puddles, so he's holding it for a good 9 hours overnight. So I'm puzzled. I'm thinking that it's maybe a urine infection, although he doesn't seem to be showing any other signs of illness, still eating fine. It's just occurred to me that when he had his jabs last week, the vet (not his usual one) took his temperature and said it was a little high, but she put that down to the fact that we had waited 20 minutes and he'd got over excited in the waiting room.
Anyway, appointment made to see the vet tomorrow morning. However, I know I won't be able to get a urine sample, so hopefully one the the brilliant vet nurses will be able to. Please all keep your fingers crossed that it's nothing too serious.
If it turns out it's a behavioural problem in response to having to share us with Jess, then goodness knows how we will deal with it. I don't see why it should be though - we've had her since March!
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Fingers crossed for Ozzy. If not an infection the perhaps related to the age of Jess? Is she spayed or possibly coming up to her first season? Does he feel that he has to do lots of scent marking to keep the barbarians away? Just speculating.
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How old is Ozzy? I'm sure the vet can investigate and find out what it is.
On getting a sample, I had to do it regularly with my oldie and got quite good at getting the vet bowl (compressed cardboard thingy) underneath at the critical moment, then a syringe to get it into the miniscule sample bottle supplied by the vet!
Keep us posted.
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Oh dear(says someone who to buy her own carpet washer). I never had a problem catching wee, sterilise with boiling water and just push a wide Tupperware type box or redundant baking tin under the aim. Then transfer contents to sterilised jam jar (sterilised in oven for a few minutes.)
I bet Mary Berry doesn't know this recipe!
Good luck at the vets.
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Fingers crossed for Ozzy. If not an infection the perhaps related to the age of Jess? Is she spayed or possibly coming up to her first season? Does he feel that he has to do lots of scent marking to keep the barbarians away? Just speculating.
Jess is spayed, and no, it's not scent marking, I've seen him do that a lot outside and then he always cocks his leg and just does a tiny little widdle! This is full-blown not being able to hold it any longer, and such an enormous amount, I've seen racehorses pee less! And when he does it he just stretches out - no leg cocking!
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How old is Ozzy? I'm sure the vet can investigate and find out what it is.
On getting a sample, I had to do it regularly with my oldie and got quite good at getting the vet bowl (compressed cardboard thingy) underneath at the critical moment, then a syringe to get it into the miniscule sample bottle supplied by the vet!
Keep us posted.
No bottle to put it in - and he stops weeing if anybody gets close to him! It seems that the vet nurses are the only ones he'll allow close to him while he wees.
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Oh dear(says someone who to buy her own carpet washer). I never had a problem catching wee, sterilise with boiling water and just push a wide Tupperware type box or redundant baking tin under the aim. Then transfer contents to sterilised jam jar (sterilised in oven for a few minutes.)
I bet Mary Berry doesn't know this recipe!
Good luck at the vets.
If the vet nurses cant get any then we may have to try this method - but only if he's desperate enough not to stop weeing if I get close to him!
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I have used a soup ladle. :005: if you can not get a sample, take a note of whether it is normal pee or very diluted ( verging on water). my staffie started drinking a lot of water and peeing enormous lakes of almost water
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I guess there's a chance it could be something like diabetes. Do you have insurance in place? If not may be an idea to consider before appt (although I think there may be a period of time on starting a policy where new conditions not covered, 24 hrs or something..) Anyway..as far as you know at the moment it is a behavioural issue not a health issue...
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Let us know how you get on at the vets. It has made me laugh this morning reading the inventive ways we have of collecting samples! It is when you are half asleep catching the morning one when a neighbour passes by (apartment living!).
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I guess there's a chance it could be something like diabetes. Do you have insurance in place? If not may be an idea to consider before appt (although I think there may be a period of time on starting a policy where new conditions not covered, 24 hrs or something..) Anyway..as far as you know at the moment it is a behavioural issue not a health issue...
I just changed insurers and the no-cover period was 48 hours.
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How old is Ozzy? I'm sure the vet can investigate and find out what it is.
On getting a sample, I had to do it regularly with my oldie and got quite good at getting the vet bowl (compressed cardboard thingy) underneath at the critical moment, then a syringe to get it into the miniscule sample bottle supplied by the vet!
Keep us posted.
I used to take my boy Wilf to park (I live near it anway) but knew the 1st thing he does is cock his leg to pee so I just presented a plastic cup and syringed it in to a sample jar (or any jar I've sterilised or just take the syringe with me to the vet). Anywhere you know they will pee when they 1st get there (walking them down the road or similar) is always useful - hey I give up on not being embarrassed any more by my dogs and their functions
Hope its something simple
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I have used a soup ladle. :005: if you can not get a sample, take a note of whether it is normal pee or very diluted ( verging on water). my staffie started drinking a lot of water and peeing enormous lakes of almost water
Yes Min, it's exactly that!
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Update: There is definitely something amiss! Even having done a huge wee outside the door of the vet practice, Steve the vet managed to catch a sample very easily this morning - he tested it and said that it was very diluted, almost water. No glucose, so not diabetes, not kidney failure as they are working overtime, and probably not an infection as there is no blood or protein. However, as it was so diluted then a miniscule concentration of protein may not show up, so has done a sediment test, but as yet no phone call to tell me to go in for antibiotics, so probably not. He then took Ozzy away again to take some blood samples which he has sent away and we should have the results in a few days. Could be hormonal (Cushings?) but there is definitely something inhibiting his kidneys from concentrating his urine. Interestingly, he told me that drinking more is a result of the dilute urine, and not the other way around. If his kidneys are not returning some of the water into his system, then he will become dehydrated and need to drink more. Anyway, I'm a bit relieved that it's not behavioural as I'm not very good at sorting those sort of problems! We are just to continue letting him out more regularly than we used to until the blood results come back, so it's a waiting game at the moment. Meanwhile I am reading up on all the hormonal problems that it could be. Thank goodness for Petplan!
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Thanks for the update - it may take a few days but then hopefully you will know what is going on. My sisters dog was diagnosed with Cushings about 12 months ago and she is doing fine - if a little on the plump side now due to the meds. One of my girls had kidney problems that as it was caught early, we managed well for about 5 years. We just got used to taking her out more until the meds had it under control.
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Fingers and paws crossed for some good news for the lad.
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We are no further forward than we were. The bloods came back on Thursday showing nothing significant, so vet Steve asked me to try to get another wee sample and drop it in the the surgery on Friday morning, which I managed to do - ex-chinese takeaway plastic container to catch it in, and a small jar that used to hold Bay Leaves! :005: If it was still as diluted then the next step in scans and x-rays to check for a tumour anywhere. Well, yes it is still very very diluted, so he has an appointment for Tuesday when the visiting expert comes. No breakfast as he will need to be sedated (he wont think much of no breakfast!). Next update when we have the results.
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Oh poor Ozzy, hope Tuesday's appointment goes well and it can be cleared up quickly. :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug:
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Oh poor Ozzy, hope Tuesday's appointment goes well and it can be cleared up quickly. :bigarmhug: :bigarmhug:
Thanks - I have to admit to being a little nervous, but I do try not to worry until there is something to worry about. Hopefully we wont have to wait for results, but will get them when we collect him later on tomorrow.
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Hope it all goes well today and you get some answers
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Again still no further forward! Nothing significant was found on the ultrasound scan, apart from a tiny polyp in Ozzy's bladder. Nothing at all to worry about, and certainly not the cause of the dilute urine. X-ray of his chest was also clear. Also found was some calcification on his kidneys, but again, due to his excess lipids, that was entirely expected and not significant apparently. So, we are none the wiser. Steve also emptied his anal glands while he was sedated and had a good feel to check for lumps, but found none. He also took a sample of urine direct from his bladder and sent that off for culture, but it came back clear. I then had to collect a small sample of urine every day for 3 days, which was then mixed together to check for an average steroid count, which we are waiting for the result of. Not sure yet where we go from here, but Ozzy doesn't seem to be drinking as much any more, or asking to go out as often either, so possibly it might just have been a transient thing which we might never know the cause of. Vet Steve is on paternity leave at the moment, so Ozzy is being dealt with by one of the other vets who we don't know, so unless something significant turns up in the latest sample then I expect we'll just leave things as they are until Steve is back.
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This could be completely off track, but I was watching It's Me Or The Dog yesterday and the troublesome dog was climbing all over the kitchen, peeing on everything. The trainer thought it was territory marking. Could Ozzy be feeling anxious about having another dog in the house and trying to assert his dominance?
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Glad to hear whatever it was appears to be clearing up, hopefully it will just turn out to be a one-off. Fingers crossed for the remaining results and :bigarmhug: to Ozzy! :D
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Bea has calcification in her kidneys, her urine is also diluted something which was caused by high ionised calcium levels in her blood.
I give Bea these herbal tablets to help her kidneys,
https://www.dorwest.com/product/mixed-vegetable-tablets-for-dogs-and-cats/
I hope your usual Vet returns soon and can sort this out for you both.
Sharon.
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This could be completely off track, but I was watching It's Me Or The Dog yesterday and the troublesome dog was climbing all over the kitchen, peeing on everything. The trainer thought it was territory marking. Could Ozzy be feeling anxious about having another dog in the house and trying to assert his dominance?
I did wonder myself at first if it might be a behavioural thing, maybe being a bit disgruntled. But we've had Jess since last March and he's only started this in the last 6 weeks or so. Also, if you've read all the way through the post you'll know that there is definitely something wrong with him, causing his kidneys to be unable to concentrate his urine, there it being far to diluted to be normal.
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Bea has calcification in her kidneys, her urine is also diluted something which was caused by high ionised calcium levels in her blood.
I give Bea these herbal tablets to help her kidneys,
https://www.dorwest.com/product/mixed-vegetable-tablets-for-dogs-and-cats/
I hope your usual Vet returns soon and can sort this out for you both.
Sharon.
Thanks Sharon, I'll certainly keep these in mind. But there was nothing unusual in his blood tests to suggest high ionised calcium in his blood, and, on reading the blurb about the tablets, they act as a diuretic which we don't need!!!
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Bea has calcification in her kidneys, her urine is also diluted something which was caused by high ionised calcium levels in her blood.
I give Bea these herbal tablets to help her kidneys,
https://www.dorwest.com/product/mixed-vegetable-tablets-for-dogs-and-cats/
I hope your usual Vet returns soon and can sort this out for you both.
Sharon.
Thanks Sharon, I'll certainly keep these in mind. But there was nothing unusual in his blood tests to suggest high ionised calcium in his blood, and, on reading the blurb about the tablets, they act as a diuretic which we don't need!!!
Sorry I was thinking more about his urine being diluted and his kidney support, Hopefully your usual vet will get to the bottom of it.
Calcium will show up in the usual blood test but the Ionised Calcium is a extra test and not something that will be done normally unless there is a issue.
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The urine sample direct from his bladder came back clear. Steve is really puzzled now, as something should have shown up somewhere by now. He suggested a course of anti-biotics just in case there is a low grade infection, and then another mixed urine test from 3 days samples. I've collected the anti-biotics but have so far been unable to start him on them as he's had some sort of tummy bug - Jess had it a couple of weeks ago, but it cleared up within a couple of days, but Ozzy's has been slower to shift. He seems to be over it now, so I'm going to give it another day to make sure it has cleared and then start the anti-bs. Then when they are finished another 3 days of trying to collect samples. It's good that nothing serious has been found, but on the other hand I just wish they'd find something that's causing it!
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It's good that the sample direct from his bladder was clear, but obviously annoying that at the moment there are no answers.
I hope Ozzy feels better soon.
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Just an obscure question ......we live an in area where kettles never fur up. My relations elsewhere need to decalcify there white furry ones every week. So does water quality affect the kidneys and other organs where stones form?
Does he drink excessively, putting a strain on the bladder? Have they discounted diabetes insipidus?
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Don't know the answer to the first question. As to the second, yes they have discounted diabetes, Cushings and more illnesses and conditions that I can remember! He was drinking a lot, but that is caused by the dilute urine, kidneys inability concentrate his urine so as to return water to his bloodstream, hence slight dehydration, hence drinking more! He's now on the antibiotics in case of a low grade, undetectable urine, bladder or kidney infection, and I have to get some more urine samples when they are finished. Still weeing copious amounts very frequently, so I suspect that things wont change much, we shall see.
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Just a quick update on Ozzy's condition. Just after I wrote the last post, and having collected the antibiotics, Ozzy developed some sort of tummy bug so the antibiotics had to to wait until he was over that. Anyway, long story short, after it had cleared up then he had the antibiotics, then 3 wee samples on the trot which turned out to be normal. Soooo, no diagnosis as such, but a very low grade kidney or urine infection was suspected, which responded to the antibiotics, and he's been signed off. However, I'm still not convinced that he's over whatever it was because he seems to have started weeing copious amounts again over the last week or so, so I think another trip to the vet may soon be on the horizon. We shall see.
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Mali started with the same thing and was diagnosed quite quickly with cushings disease. She's treated with a daily dose of apoquel. I hope you can find a solution for Jess soon x
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one of our staffies had cushings. She was drinking huge amounts of water and peeing great lakes of very diluted pee. almost clear water.