My wife and I are really worried about Bella

[Bellabear]

Hi all

This is my first time to the forum. I haven't even looked at any posts yet.

We got our cocker Bella about 11 weeks ago. She is now 19 weeks old. She was the most loving, cuddly doggy up until two days ago.

She has started to lose her teeth and when I went to pick her up to put her outside for her to do her business she went absolutely bananas. Alsmost rabid, She got my hand and ripped it like a piece of meat with the teeth she has left. It went right down to the bone.

I managed to get her off by her collar and put her outside. She seemed placid enough and almost apologetic when I opened the door.

As I coaxed her back in her cage and tried to shut the door, she went psycho again, trying to hurt me through the cage.

The day after she was overly loving, wouldn't leave my side. Wanted to be near me and begging me to pick her up all the time.

My question is....is this normal? Is it because she is teething, do I have a puppy with spaniel syndrome?

The only time she has ever been aggressive before this is when she has a chew and you try and take it off her.

I also need some poop training advice but will save it for another post.

Also is it normal for a puppy to lie in bed with you from 6am-7am like a human, as in, lying with head on pillow and half body under duvet. It's very cute.

******UPDATE********

It got worse tonight, when she went to bed and the door was closed, she was crazy trying to get at me in a violent way as I walked by the cage.

Is it time to let her sleep free?

She is a perfect dog until bedtime.

[Pearly]

Hi and welcome to the forum 

Firstly, it sounds as though you have a very normal cocker spaniel who is trying to give you a message - your challenge is to work out what that message is  . If she is teething she's probably a bit sore and very likely getting over tired - I'm assuming you have a set routine with her throughout the day with regular sleeps as you would with a baby or toddler?

Secondly, there's nothing wrong with having a cocker in your bed, if that's what you enjoy (we have 4 which is a bit of a squeeze so opt not to let them upstairs  ) but she will get bigger and may already be expecting to share your bed for longer!

There will be others along with more experience than me but I would suggest changing your evening routine to earlier and seeing how she reacts..... the biting thing is pretty normal tho generally not as hard as you've described.  It's worth reading through the puppy board - you will find many posts of a similar nature.........

In the meantime it's worthwhile stocking up on wine, kitchen roll, wine, chocolate and more wine 

Jayne
X

[bizzylizzy]

Hi and welcome! I'd strongly advise reading through some of the threads in the puppy section, it will reassure you to know we've all gone through this  and that there's loads of support here aswell as light at the end of the tunnel!
I agree with all that Jayne has said - another thought is, how do you pick Bellam up? or, do you need to pick hermup? Some puppies don't really like it - I remember Humphrey screaming once as I'd picked him up under his tummy and that really must have hurt him. Teething might also make him grumpy, make sure he has something to chew on (there again, lots of tips on here). Vaccinations can also cause a bit of grumpiness, as does being over tired and over stimulated.
It is all part of the puppy stage however I think you need to curb it if its getting that "ferocious".
Sleeping arrangements are individual choice - after sharing half the bed with dogs for the last 40 years, we opted for the luxury of the bed to ourselves this time around, so Humphrey's not allowed upstairs either, - it works fine.
Best of luck, keep us posted!!
(the other) Jayne with Humphrey

[Sumava Cockers]

We've had 4 puppies in our family in as many years,  the latest being a WCS.

All puppies are a bit bity,  and cockers probably more so.  But none of ours have behaved as ferociously as you describe.

Current puppy is 15 weeks old and although he'll puncture skin when in frenzied play mode,  its never down to the bone.  What you describe is something that needs to be dealt with sharpish.

In your place, I'd quickly seek advice from a vet,  and show them your injuries...They have big experience of dealing with and occasionally getting bitten by various animals,  so will be able to give you an objective assessment. 

If vet finds nothing physically wrong with her and considers it just puppy assertiveness, I'd start being very dominant with her when she starts to go crazy.  Grab her by scruff of neck...you know the place where they cannot bite you,  and then hold her down for a minute or two until she gets the massage that you're in complete charge.  I knw this sounds a bit OTT and probably I'll be criticised for it,  but it does work pretty well,  and without any traumatic side effects as far as we can
tell.

Good luck

[8 Hairy Feet]

Please don't hold puppies down!
Thank you

[Mari]

I have to mention this since it is in the thread already. Please do not try to use dominance on a puppy. If this is more than play biting then she is likely insecure and aversives are extremely risky when you do not fully understand the problem. It could make a small issue into a dangerous problem. And it could destroy the trust she has in you as owners.

It is completely normal to be playbiting, puppy teeth are sharp and some puppies have not learned to control their strength yet so during rough play they can draw blood. It is also normal for them to get a little crazy around bedtime, it is like children when they get hyper and fussy because they are too tired. Resource guarding however is not normal. It's common, but must be handled correctly.

First find out why she attacks. Is she playing? Is she insecure about being picked up? Is she insecure about being stuck in the crate? Is she resource guarding the crate or something in it? If you cannot figure this out then you should seek help from a behaviourist. Someone who can tell you what's normal or not and who can show you how to deal with it safely. You can also try and describe in more detail what happens before and during these episodes and how you react to it. It would be easier to give advise then

If she doesn't like being approached in the crate then have her come to you rather than reaching for her there. If she is insecure about being picked up, then ease her into it by being calm, sitting down with her and using rewards. If she is resource guarding then there is a ton of things you can do to solve that, whatever you do don't fight her. There is a book called "Mine!" By Jean Donaldson. It explains resource guarding and how to avoid it/fix it. It's a small book and it's brilliant for any dog owner to have read.

Another small book I think every puppy owner should read is "On talking terms with dogs: Calming signals" by Turid Rugaas. It helps you interpret a dogs behaviour and understand what signals they are giving. Is it aggression or playfullness, fear or anger etc.

People on here are very knowledgeable and can help you with advise whatever the problem (if any) is. But the first step is figuring out what it is. Puppy classes are a must, and if you are worried about this behaviour then get help from a professional trainer/behaviourist. Because if you are insecure, she will be insecure so getting the opinion of someone like that will make life easier

You ask about cocker syndrome and I do not think it sounds like it at all. It sounds like he is either a normal puppy with zoomies and not yet developed bite inhibition. Or it sounds like she is insecure around the crate or has some resource guarding. All things that can be trained  by using positive training methods

[bizzylizzy]

Good advice!

[Londongirl]

Great advice here already. Sounds to me like a pup who hasn't learned bite inhibition and is getting over stimulated.

Some dogs just don't like being handled unless it's on their terms. If yours doesn't like being held, you can leave a soft light lead on them so you can come in and out for potty training without having to lift them. Likewise with the crate, let pup come out by themselves. A big hand reaching in can be a bit scary and my guess is that they are still learning to trust you. Herny (at 18 months) still doesn't like to approached head on. If I want to touch him, I do it from the side, or I stand still and let him come to me. He is very calm about it now because I've learned what he prefers and he has learned to trust me. None of that comes instantly.

[ips]

I have no experience of a pup that age as ours was six months when we got her but it sounds to me like the pup is not quite settled with its place in the world. Play biting is one thing (ours still does at nearly three) but it sounds like you experienced a ferocious attack which doesn't sound normal to me.
As others have said there is obviously a problem but the hard part is to determine what it is.

[Sumava Cockers]

If this girl is biting to the bone it must be scary to try and handle her.

It also sounded a lot more severe than play biting.

Our little boy is pretty wild at times,  but not that wild.  Now that his inoculations have taken, he's allowed to play with the village dogs here.  One of them is a neighbours GSD guard dog.  We were all cautious of how this would pan out.  Barnaby,  true to form thought it would be a smart move to give the GSD a few sharp nips....for which he got a very scary introduction into the rules of top-dogmanship.  GSD was actually very restrained, and just wanted to teach a lesson to the whippersnapper. Now that top-dog is established they are becoming best of friends.  Barnaby seems none the worse for it.  he's still full of beans,  and has proper zoomies several times a day.  But with GSD he's polite.

[sodpot2000]

Firstly a caveat - it is impossible to offer more than an informed guess without having seen the incident and had advice from a vet, but - a couple of ideas that may help

1. Look at what your pup is eating. My last cocker pup was prone to bouts of fairly extreme behaviour which we worked out was a kind of 'quasi ADHD' reaction to artificial colours in some foods and treats. So exclude anything with any artificial colours or similar.

2. Get the pup assessed by the vet including a check on eyes. If the dog cannot see properly then something coming in 'blindside' will provoke a reaction because they do not understand. Similarly, if the dog is in pain, they cannot tell that you are not causing it and so will react accordingly.

If those are excluded, then you have some better foundations to work from.

[lescef]

Hi.  Mostly good advice is given. There seem to be a few issues going on, but she seems to dislike the crate mainly?
I would suggest a vet check first of all then maybe find a positive behaviourist who can come and assess the situation.
These are some of my thoughts.
 Is she getting enough sleep? Puppies need at least 17 hours a day
Try and stay as calm as you can as if her behaviour was normal. They pick up on our anxiety so easily.
Try not to let her practice the behaviours as it all  becomes more ingrained. Use a lead rather than lifting her if you want her to move. Aggressive behaviour  usually occurs because a dog is frightened and it's the only way they know how to respond.
Don't try to take precious things off her. Hold another high value treat in front of her and say 'swop' and hopefully she'll drop hers for yours. Eventually you can then give hers back so she learns there is no need to guard.
If she doesn't like her crate there are crate games you can play to make it more appealing as a place to go. I wonder if she thinks you are leaving her as she wants your attention all day.
Are you at home most of the time with her? We made a big mistake here as Bramble wanted my attention all the time and had to be weaned off me with time outs in her crate even though we were in the house.
I do think a behaviourist would be able to help sort you out though. Good luck!

[phoenix]

Have you started puppy classes yet?  Really the trainer will be best placed to see your pup in class,  seeing if he is moving without pain and whether he is fearful. Mine was a difficult pup, and  at our first class he barked his head off immediately until the trainer told me to my surprise that he was shy and anxious, and to let him hide behind a screen  till he was easier. He stopped barking immediately, and crept out when he felt OK.  He was hand shy, and a false hand helped. The trainer sat on the floor next to him, ignoring eye contact . It all sounds the opposite to human behaviour, but dog language is different. If I had taken Bob to the vet, after one of his snarling episodes, they would have said PTS.  He became a fabulous dog, with few issues we  worked with. 
Cockers can be extremely sensitive and intelligent,   and bullying them puts them in the red zone.  Making them WaNT to cooperate is vital. What they fear is rejection, so leaving them to lower the adrenalin is enough.    My OH got  angry with him once and did a cave man act, which only enraged Bob more. I split them up, shut Bob away from both OH and the Xmas presents he wanted. Five minutes later Bob was ok, though OH wasn't.

[LisaL]

Personally my first port of call would be the vet to rule out any physical problems then a behaviourist. You may be inadvertently encouraging the behaviour but a good trainer who uses positive reinforcement will be able to identify and help you all.

Good luck

[Ben's mum]

Lots of very good advice already, but please can I add to the plea for you NOT (yes I am shouting) to scruff your puppy or hold her down.  It was the 'in' thing when Ben was a pup 14 years ago, we did it because we were advised to by a trainer and we have had a lifetime of fear aggression problems to deal with, which only stopped now he has dementia