CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => Puppies => Topic started by: shonajoy on April 15, 2004, 10:21:35 AM
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Just met a lady I've met quite a lot recently in the park, and chatted to her. She has two working cockers, gorgeous dogs, and we got talking. She said she thought my Indie had a good bit of working cocker in him, as he has the long body and shorter legs. She siad the more she saw him, the more she thought he did.
It doesn't matter to me, I'm just wonderfing if anyone else thinks so, there are a few pics in the puppy gallery.
Shona
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Looks like a 'normal' cocker to me! But then again, I'm not the best at telling working, cocker and field spaniels apart! When we first got Boysie, our vet suggested that he was part working cocker - mainly because he was virtually bouncing off the consulting room walls at the time, but also he does seem quite tall. We had only had him 3 days then, and he had come from rescue kennels, and I think he was just letting off some steam and didn't want to be examined.
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I have to say Shona, that Indie looks like a 'show type' cocker to me, not a working one.
Orange roans can tend to have silkier, finer fur and hence less of it - so he may not have a lot of feathering, which could give him a kind of worker cocker look.
Also, he's still growing! At 3 months Jenni's head looks too small for her long body and she's got little dumpy legs! But she's just a baby and so is growing all over the place at different rates I suppose.
I'm sure when he's fully grown and fully 'feathered out' people won't pass comment.
I seem to remember that Gilly had comments of Butty being a springer when she was younger, but as she's grown up, filled out and got more feathering she's looking a proper little cocker lady - am I right Gilly, or am I confusing you with someone else?
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Sounds like Gilly to me, Kelly :wink:
Shona, I found it quite hard to tell for certain from the pictures in the gallery, as there wasnt really one clear one with his entire body and head - howeverm I think I'd go with what Kelly said.
If you're still unsure, send Jane a PM with details of Indie's parentage, and she can let you know for sure (provided both are kc registered).
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Thanks Mike, I'll try and take a proper pic.
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Thanks Kelly, that could well be it. He's 6 months now, do you think he'll grow much more? He's weighing in at 14 kgs.
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Thanks Maria,
lol at bouncing off the walls, Indie does that after his bath, goes mad for an hour!
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Looks like the showtype to mee too. When my Ada was pup, everyone thought she was a welsh springer (probably because of her color, orange and white). When my Kukka was younger, everyone kept asking wether she is an american cocker (ok, she has always had a somewhat excessive harigrowth, but in my opinion she looks nothing like the american cousin. Or what do you think, she's the one in my avatar) :roll:..
I have even once been asked if my Ada is a poodle :shock: . That gave me a right laugh :lol:
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Indie looks like a show-type Cocker to me too :) Have a look at his pedigree Shona & if some of the names have "FT CH" in front of them, then this indicates a Working pedigree. If some of the names have "Sh Ch" in front of them, then it's a show pedigree. Of course there may be no Champions at all in which case, this won't help :wink:
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Looks all show boy to me :) But they're ALL beautiful and loving little things to have around :P
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How can you tell if he is cocker is aworking cocker? :? I was interested when you mentioned the long body because out of all the cockers i have seen in the flesh i have yet to see one who has a body that is as long as my Billy's. He also has legs which are longer than other cockers i have seen. Maybe it is because he is only 6 mths? :lol:
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I was interested when you mentioned the long body because out of all the cockers i have seen in the flesh i have yet to see one who has a body that is as long as my Billy's. He also has legs which are longer than other cockers i have seen. Maybe it is because he is only 6 mths? :lol:
I think you might be right there. Cooper is definately show type but at the moment he is 4 months and looks to me to have really long legs and a short body - compared to when Morgan was a pup. In fact everyone we meet likens him to a little black and white lamb :lol: He has that gangliness about him :lol: I think he's beautiful now but I know he will look even better when he fills out and grows some fluff :D
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I am probably showing my ignorance here, well, I am well practiced at it. :?
I always thought that long legs would be detramental for a working Cocker, to work well the dog needs to get into all sorts of thick undergrowth to flush game.
The dog also needs to be short and stocky in order to bulldoze his way through the thickest of the undergrowth.
Buster is definately not a show Cocker, although he is only sixteen weeks old he is showing little sign of a long coat or heavy feathering.
His paws are very large but his legs are not long, his rear quarters are rapidly developing very heavy and strong muscle, he has boundless energy and loves nothing more than catching the scent of game in any sort of thicket and doing his best to flush it out.
Although I do not shoot, I love country walking and adore watching any dog working well and enjoying what he does best.
To me it matters not if Buster is show or field stock, providing he is healthy, happy and gets to do what he enjoys, then I believe I am fulfilling my duty as a responsible owner.
As stated in a previous post, I love my dog.
Mike.
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Hi Mike
It's clear that you love him whatever his breeding :D but what makes you think that Buster isn't show type? I may be wrong but I think the lighter roans tend to have less feathering or it takes longer to appear :?: Cooper is dark blue roan (also 16 weeks) and he has very little fluff yet! :wink: :D
I know it's not important to you, but if you are interested in finding out I'm sure Jane would be able to tell you if you sent her Busters pedigree details :)
Buster's a lucky lad to have such a proud and caring owner :P
All the best
Shirley :)
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Hi Mike
but what makes you think that Buster isn't show type?
Shirley :)
Probably the fact that we have no intention of showing Buster has led me to have a perhaps somewhat clouded opinion.
Although his speckling becomes darker by the day, he is very much at the moment a light Blue Roan.
It will be interesting to see if his coat and feathers become more prolific over the coming weeks.
Just out of interest, do you give Cooper any free excercise ?, if so how does he react to the scent of game. I just feel that Buster is so keen at only 16 weeks that he must have a bias towards working.
Mike.
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Hi Mike
We have 1 1/2 acre garden so Cooper has the run of this area for free exercise. He's also off lead (for short spells) if we go to the beach or the woods. In both these situations he's still behaving like a duckling :lol: He'll follow Morgan but if he runs off too quickly Cooper will immediately come back to my side. He is "nose to the ground" all the time though (as is the case with most cockers - working or show :roll: ) The only wild animals he has come across so far are rabbits and birds and he's made no attempt to chase either - too busy chasing Morgan to notice them I think :) I've yet to test him with sheep or cows but he's a bit of a scaredy-cat so I think we'll wait till he's a bit more confident with other dogs before we introduce him to animals 10 times his size :lol:
How is Buster with other dogs?
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Hi what makes you think that Buster isn't show type?
If I remember from a previous post, I think Mike said Buster's dad had been quite successful in field trials - that's the same as my working springer, and probably indicative of Buster indeed coming from working lines - though of course not 100% necessarily, as we know some people do work (and therefore trial) their show-type cockers too.
I think with working spaniels, sometimes they give the appearance of being 'leggier' as they dont have any feathering to hide the true aspect of the leg, unlike show-type cockers. My working springer, for example, has always looked to have quite long, slender legs, but in comparison to show-type springers she is invariaby shorter :wink:
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Probably the fact that we have no intention of showing Buster has led me to have a perhaps somewhat clouded opinion.
Show-type doesn't mean that the dog in question is a show dog or that the owner has any intention of showing - it's just a description used to distinguish this type of Cocker from the Field Trial-bred Working Cocker (the two types look very different!). Show-type Cockers often do have the same instincts to hunt & flush as their Working brothers but their drive may not be as high & they are not as quick usually - having said that, like Mike says, there are some dedicated owners of show-type Cockers who regularly work their dogs. This divide between show & working type does cause a lot of confusion which is a shame as they are all Cockers underneath :)
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Funnily enough, I have just returned from a holiday where we had a farmhouse on 210 acres of land. There were deer, badger, squirrels etc. in abundance and we walked at least twice a day on the land over rough fields and through woodland.
Lottie (not a working cocker) showed no hunting instinct whatsoever :roll: Even when we startled a partridge camouflaged in the rough grass she didn't bat an eyelid :? The farm dog (a collie/lab cross) walked with us all the time and she had her nose into everything...mouse holes, badger sets etc.. She'd even caught a hare a few weeks back and ate it :shock:
I must admit, I thought Lottie may have shown some natural instinct. Would this just be her personality along with the fact she's a 'towny' :?: :wink: :D
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Buster sounds very much like Billy. :o Billy is off the lead in local fields twice a day. He always has his nose to the ground and if he sees a bird then hes off like a rocket. He is very very fast and seems very happy when they all fly away. Someone leaves bread out in the fields every day.Sometimes when we arrive there are birds everywhere. Billy is in his element, although I do feel guilty sometimes that i shouldnt let him chase them away as they are only eating the bread. He loves other animals its just birds he chases :lol:
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How is Buster with other dogs?
Hi Shirley
Buster is just fine with other dogs. Obviously, still being a puppy, he does tend to get a bit over exuberent but that does not seem to have been a problem for him or the other dog to date.
When on his free exercise walks Buster vary rarely even lifts his nose from the ground. It is possible to tell when he has scented game because you can hear his tail ( complete ) slapping his flanks.
Tonight we took him for a walk around our local park, the park keeper spotted Buster, came over to us and asked if he was any good at rabbiting. I replied that at 17 weeks he was still just learning. He responded by asking if we could let Buster off his lead to see if he could identify where the little blighters were hiding.
We duly obliged.
After less than two minutes of frantic nose to the ground activity he dived into some thick shrubberies, seconds later two very startled rabbits came dashing out the other side with a rather exited Buster on their heels.
With Busters blood lines and natural bias towards field work, I really do think he is a working cocker.
May I also take this opportunity to say that I hope I have not offended anyone with my post's. When I mentioned that I love my dog, it was not a reference to other owners not loving their dogs, just an opportunity to let other folk know how I feel about my beloved Buster.
Mike.
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Hi Mike
Sounds like Buster has a really good time when he's out walking. Do you plan to work him when he's older?
:? I don't think anyone would be remotely offended by you showing your feelings for Buster :D - we're all here for the same reason - our dogs are important to us (some of my family would say I'm obsessed :lol: and should be thinking of having children :shock: ) and very much loved :P .
Have fun with Buster
Shirley :D
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Boysie's nose is constantly to the ground when we are out, so much that he has been known to walk into things! He will also chase anything small that moves fast (luckily not humans jogging or bikes), and although he has learnt that he's unlikely to catch any birds, he will, still, occasionally go after them. In Yorkshire last year he chased, caught and killed a rabbit! The vet thought he may have some working cocker in him, but we don't know. He is quite tall and long - I was going to say taller than the average cocker, but at our local park there are 3 or 4 smaller than him, and 2 or 3 the same height! As he came to us via the RSPCA we have no idea of his parentage. But,it doesn't matter - like Buster's dad, we love him just the way he is.
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Hi Mike
Sounds like Buster has a really good time when he's out walking. Do you plan to work him when he's older?
Shirley :D
Hi Shirley
Buster seems to enjoy everything about his life. He loves meeting people, both those that he knows and recognises and those that he does not.
He gets on well with dogs and cats alike. There is one little cat around the corner from us who likes to rub his face against Buster's when they meet. I will have to see if I can get a photo of them and post it on the site.
But the biggest joy of all for Buster is getting into the car, for he knows that this means going on a decent country walk. :D
At this stage we have no intention of working Buster, I do not shoot, in fact I am a bit of a pacifist, but I do like watching Buster doing what his gene's are crying out for.
Only this week he has learned how to shake a paw, now we can't keep the blessed thing's down when there are treats about. :lol:
Mike.
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Brogan loves his nose with a passion - watching him work the ground is fascinating when in the woods. A lot of the games we play at home are scent ones. His favourite is when we hide his toy in the house somewhere and send him to find it. It is like watching a sniffer dog at work the way he searches it out - on finding it we have a good game of tug o war. We play retrieve games sometimes but, these are clearly not what tunes him in. He has little interest in chasing the birds ........so far! (Would never trust him with my guinea pigs or gerbils though!! Mmm tasty morsels they could be)!!!
Out walking as a family we frequently send someone to hide with his favourite toy or a treat - he finds them every time - my son tests him by climbing the trees and doubling back on himself. We work over a distance of about 100 - 400m - having walkie talkies help!!!