Peeing in the house - at 4 months! HELP!!!!

[Aearoniel]

Callie hasn't had an accident for 1month 3weeks and a day! I was so shocked when I looked it up (we mark on the calendar all accidents inhouse to monitor how we are going with the training)! But as she's still a pup we still are uber vigilant and make sure she gets let out regularly. Consistancy is key oh and having  a stain proof carpet!

[Annie's Mum]

Annie is 4 months and she's still supervised. She's getting there but as 3rd puppy know only too well they take time.
If she's left a few hours she'll wee...but we dont stress her bladder will get stronger. But she is going to back door now to go out which is sooo good. However we still get accidents...shes a baby and will get there eventually.

[skyesmum]

Skye is 8 months now and is really good - but she still wakes me up twice every night to let me know she needs a wee.

Mind you, I'd rather have that than a puddle on the floor every morning!   

[Robbie34]

Persevere!     And don't listen to anyone who says their dog was housetrained in 2 weeks - they are lying as most pups are not! 

My little black cocker was house trained in two weeks.  He did have the occasional accident,

Eveyone has different ideas of what is "house-trained" though.......I wouldn't describe a puppy fully "housetrained" if they have the occasional accident 

When a puppy cries to go out to perform then in my book he's house trained.  The occasional accident was when I wasn't around to let him out.

My other two Cockers were not house trained as quickly as Jason but they were at four months.

[Cob-Web]

When a puppy cries to go out to perform then in my book he's house trained. 

Not wanting to be argumentative, but in your book, then neither of mine could be described as houstrained (because the never ask to go out), and they are nearly 2 and nearly 4, respectively 
When Molo was a puppy, we used a crate, and he whined when he was in the crate if he needed to go toilet from the day we got him - but he certainly wasn't house-trained at that point 

Teaching a dog to "ask" to go out is different from house-training imo - and I haven't taught either of mine to ask. I know that some dogs do *ask* naturally, but not all do, so I would not associate "asking"with reliable house training, really - as you say, when you are not there to respond, they can't hold on when they are little 

[Robbie34]

My dogs were never taught to ask to go outside.  This was a natural gravitation from learning to do their business outside and not in the house. Don't your dogs ask to go outside to play or just to look around?

Cockers are very demonstrative - at least all of mine have been - and will show you what they want.  Whenever Charley wants something he comes and paws me, or sits in front of me.  He does this if he wants a Bonio or one of his chews.  When I ask him what he wants he will run to the kitchen to where I keep his treats.  He has learned this and I haven't trained him.  In effect, he has trained me to respond to his signals.

[jakesmum]

My dogs were never taught to ask to go outside.  This was a natural gravitation from learning to do their business outside and not in the house. Don't your dogs ask to go outside to play or just to look around?

Cockers are very demonstrative - at least all of mine have been - and will show you what they want.  Whenever Charley wants something he comes and paws me, or sits in front of me.  He does this if he wants a Bonio or one of his chews.  When I ask him what he wants he will run to the kitchen to where I keep his treats.  He has learned this and I haven't trained him.  In effect, he has trained me to respond to his signals.

You're not wrong there!! Jake is becoming very verbal at telling me when he wants walks, dinner, chews, biscuits - you name it. He's become a very cheeky little mister...probably my fault for spoiling him but I shall definitely have to stop giving in to him or he'll be manipulating me big style in no time at all 

[Cob-Web]

Whenever Charley wants something he comes and paws me, or sits in front of me.  He does this if he wants a Bonio or one of his chews.  When I ask him what he wants he will run to the kitchen to where I keep his treats.  He has learned this and I haven't trained him.  In effect, he has trained me to respond to his signals.

You sound very well trained 

Even though you didn't set out to train him, you have taught him to do this by repeatedly or even intermittently reacting in the same way to a specific behaviour from him. Your reaction has rewarded and reinforced certain behaviour, until you now "know what he means"  The same principle leads to a lot of dogs being *taught* to beg at the table - they are given a tit-bit off a dinner plate one day, and they will try their luck the next, just in case 

I think the reason my two have not developed a method of *asking* to go out is because I use a different management/training technique with my dogs. I use NILIF; which requires to the dog to do something I request before they are rewarded.  I don't respond to their behaviour unless I have initiated it, so there is less opportunity to reinforce other behaviours, like pawing me to open the door, for instance   


Anyway.....back to the original post - stick with it, I think you are doing great 

[Robbie34]

My dogs were never taught to ask to go outside.  This was a natural gravitation from learning to do their business outside and not in the house. Don't your dogs ask to go outside to play or just to look around?

Cockers are very demonstrative - at least all of mine have been - and will show you what they want.  Whenever Charley wants something he comes and paws me, or sits in front of me.  He does this if he wants a Bonio or one of his chews.  When I ask him what he wants he will run to the kitchen to where I keep his treats.  He has learned this and I haven't trained him.  In effect, he has trained me to respond to his signals.

You're not wrong there!! Jake is becoming very verbal at telling me when he wants walks, dinner, chews, biscuits - you name it. He's become a very cheeky little mister...probably my fault for spoiling him but I shall definitely have to stop giving in to him or he'll be manipulating me big style in no time at all 

Yes, but you love it really.  I know I do.

Today, we went shopping in the morning instead of going for a walk.  We had lunch afterwards and after I had finished eating I was doing the crossword in the morning paper.  Charley was not very happy and wanted to come on my knee - he often does this when I'm on my computer.  I let him up and he put his head on my shoulder.  Finding it impossible to continue doing the crossword with this lump on me.  I'm sure he does this to get his own way.  Jumping down, he knew we were then going out for his walk, and of course he ran to the stairs waiting for me to put on his lead.

When we are away at friends he will start barking at me and I ask him what he wants.  If I say, "Do you want a wee wee?"  He'll run to the door to go outside.  Some friends are amazed, but it's really quite simple; if you develop a relationship with your pet they will respond.  I suppose in my case it's a conditioned reflex: Charley has conditioned me.

  

[Robbie34]

I think the reason my two have not developed a method of *asking* to go out is because I use a different management/training technique with my dogs. I use NILIF; which requires to the dog to do something I request before they are rewarded.  I don't respond to their behaviour unless I have initiated it, so there is less opportunity to reinforce other behaviours, like pawing me to open the door, for instance

I'm not sure how I would request Charley to go outside to do his business.

I treat Charley as I would a child.  He's rewarded for good behaviour, and we have developed a bond, as I have done with all of my pets.  Charley has total trust in me and I can do anything with him.  He's also a very bright dog, but I don't think he's super intelligent, it's the way I have brought him up, and I'm sure anyone else's Cocker would be the same given the circumstances.  In much the same way that children learn much better given the right stimuli.

[Cob-Web]

I'm not sure how I would request Charley to go outside to do his business.

I think there was a suggestion earlier in the thread - you can introduce a cue word when they are puppies so that they learn to pee/poo on command - assistance and protection/search dogs are taught this so they don't "go" while on duty, even when if they are working outside 

I treat Charley as I would a child.  He's rewarded for good behaviour, and we have developed a bond, as I have done with all of my pets.  Charley has total trust in me and I can do anything with him.  He's also a very bright dog, but I don't think he's super intelligent, it's the way I have brought him up, and I'm sure anyone else's Cocker would be the same given the circumstances.  In much the same way that children learn much better given the right stimuli.

I think it's about what suits you and your household too - it would drive me barmy if my dogs, or my daughter, "pawed" me for attention; so this is not behaviour that is rewarded or encouraged in our house 

[Robbie34]

I think it's about what suits you and your household too - it would drive me barmy if my dogs, or my daughter, "pawed" me for attention; so this is not behaviour that is rewarded or encouraged in our house 

One of the joys of having a Cocker Spaniel is watching their character develop.  Charley has a delightful personality, and I certainly don't object to him asking me for something - read that as pawing, if you like.   I have allowed his personality to develop, and he is a well behaved and well adjusted little dog.  He is gentle and loving, and I have no fear if a child wants to pet him. 

[Cob-Web]

I think it's about what suits you and your household too - it would drive me barmy if my dogs, or my daughter, "pawed" me for attention; so this is not behaviour that is rewarded or encouraged in our house 

One of the joys of having a Cocker Spaniel is watching their character develop. 

I agree, but I am sure there are some elements of his personality that you have not encouraged - otherwise he would not be well behaved or well adjusted   

I am aware that we have totally hijacked the origional thread, but this is fascinating as I had not fully appreciated the wider implications of various training techniques and how they can impact on "learned behaviour" rather than "taught behaviour" 

[Robbie34]

I agree, but I am sure there are some elements of his personality that you have not encouraged - otherwise he would not be well behaved or well adjusted 

He's well behaved and well adjusted because those are some of the traits that have been positively encouraged.

It has been suggested that having a dog is like having a permanent three year old child. Good behaviour has been encouraged and bad behaviour has been discouraged.  Charley is always rewarded for actions that I approve of.  Indeed, he's never been a naughty dog.  Of course, he was mischievous as a puppy - running off wth things and being chased - but this was normal puppy behaviour and play.  None of my Cockers have been destructive because they were never bored, and rarely left alone.  They always accompanied me to work.  Even as puppies, I took their food and toys with me, and when I was away at meetings, members of staff loved to look after them and feed and exercise them for me.

But back to toilet training.  It's a tiresome but worthwhile chore.  I have already outlined my method, and it worked for my puppies.  You have to be on top off them all of the time.  Putting paper down for them to use means that they have to unlearn that behaviour and then learn to go outside.  That is confusing for a puppy.  Far better to keep taking them outside at regular intervals so that they associate using the outdoors for their toilet.  I always used Doggy Chocs as their rewards, and I still use them for Charley.  He has dry eye, and consequently his eyes have to be cleaned and ointment administered a number of times daily and before bedtime.  I always give him some after his treatment, except at bedtime.

[bluegirl]

We've had several dogs over the years and they have all been very easy to toilet train, as Robbie has said one or two accidents and thats it, two weeks max, but with Penny I really struggled, did all the same things but to no avail, she just couldn't master it. She was 5 mths before I could call her toilet trained. She never asks to go out, but I am aware of her behaviour that means she wants to do her business so even now I'll tell her to go out. The pups took a while because there was 2 of them and you just can't keep your eyes on both of them all of the time, so I limited there access to most areas of the house until the accidents were few and far between (much quicker than Penny though).
Treat each dog as an individual, they'll get there at their own pace as their bladder and bowel contol improves and I know it is very frustrating at times but positive reinforcement, time and consistency is the only way forward with this one IMHO.
Good luck.