Hi still having a problem

[spanielcrazy]

In the meantime, if it happens while you are looking for a behaviourist or trainer, you can use what is called the Jolly Routine, pioneered by Bill Campbell, a great behaviourist.

What it is basically, is defusing the situation and distracting  the dog by bouncing a ball or jangling car keys or something enticing to the dog, while talking and acting in a happy "jolly" way. No, it is not rewarding the dog for the growling behaviour though it may seem that way at first appearances. But you are distracting the dog , and changing his mood.  What he is learning, for example in your situation, is that "when child approaches to pet me, mum gets really happy"  In the beginning it serves as a distraction, but if repeated, it becomes a way to help the dog view stressful or difficult situations differently.

Have a look at it:


http://home.att.net/~vlea/THE_JOLLY_ROUTINE.htm

(and do follow the link to his website, he is very good 

[Worthy]

  I HAVE SPOKEN WITH A BEHAVIOURIST/TRAINER AT LENGTH LAST NIGHT, HOWEVER THE TOPIC OF RAGE CAME UP (HAVE LOOKED INTO THIS WHEN WE FIRST GOT HIM BUT DID NOT KNOW ABOUT THE CONDITION WHEN I PICKED HIM) OTHERWISE I WOULD HAVE GONE FOR A ROAN/PART-COLOURED. ANYWAY I AM OBVIOUSLY CONCERNED. HE RECOMENEDED THAT I KEEP A DIARY OF INCIDENTS AND CAREFULLY OBSERVE HIM WITH THE CHILDREN. I WILLTAKE HIM TO HIS TRAINING CLASSES SO HE CAN INITIALLY ASSESS HIM AND TAKE IT FROM THERE

I HOWEVER AM STILL THINKING THAT HE SEE'S HIMSLEF BELOW ME AND THE OH BUT ABOVE THE KIDS IN THE PECKING ORDER (HOWEVER I APPRICIATE THAT MANY OF YOU WOULD NOT AGREE WITH THIS THEORY).

THANKS FOR YOUR SUPPORT x

[Helen]

in all honesty, please look for another behaviourist experienced with cockers that won't label your dog with potential 'rage' until he has seen your dog and made a full assessment.

[CarolineL]

Rage is really really unusual and I would seriously avoid any behaviourist who suggested this without even seeing the dog. Unfortunately cocker spaniels who may suffer from behavioural problems are too often labelled with Rage by people who should know better. 

As far as I am aware Rage is when a dog attacks without any triggers, as your puppy is growling, it is highly unlikely that he is suffering from rage.

Jools' Milly (Im sure she wont mind me saying) suffered from Rage - there is a long thread about it (i'll find the linky and post it).
http://www.cockersonline.co.uk/discuss/index.php?topic=12047.0, it really isnt a condition that should be attributed to a dog how has airsnapped or given a warning growl.

There are many many people on here (myself included) who have solid coloured cocker spaniels who are amazing, loving friendly dogs.

IMO it sounds like Kasper needs his own space. Does he have a crate, somewhere he can retreat to? As the others suggested dont let your children approach Kasper for strokes or cuddles, even if they have done it since he was a puppy. Let him come to them and try and aviod stroking him, patting him, it may just be unwelcome attention for the time being, as mentioned previously not all dogs like to be stroked/cuddled.

I'd be interested, as Jan is, to discover where you got your pup from - it could be relevant, just as much as it could be irrelevant   

[Hurtwood Dogs]

Completely agree with Livercake and CarolineL... as long standing cocker owners we've all been 'told' by people who don't know the breed very well that there is LOTS of rage syndrome within cockers - particularly within solid colours.. not the case.

Please don't label your dog with this just because he's a teenage golden cocker - it does sound very much to me like the same sort of behaviour my last cocker 'investigated' when he hit teens (also a solid golden boy) and with consistent handling he grew out of it within a matter of about 3 months.. ( he also had the chop at about 11 months - but I have no idea if that effected his behaviour or not).

From what you've described with your dog they don't sound like rage incidents and I would strongly advise you to talk to a number of behaviourists/trainers before deciding on one that will be a positive help to you. For this trainer to mention rage at this point, over the phone, before even meeting your dog would make me very nervous about proceeding with him/her.

My last dog would also try and be more assertive with my OH than with me so there is another similarity for you in that he was choosing who to try and boss around a bit or who he felt relaxed with and who he didn't. I had my son when that dog was a year old and by then, he was a complete angel.. and NEVER gave me cause for concern with children.

Lots of luck and please keep posting we'll all try and help where we can..

Hannah x

[PennyB]

Can you post when the theory was discredited and who by - I find the whole area of how dogs learn fascinating - I am also enjoying Culture Clash 

Jean Donalldson explains in her book why the theory is flawed in her book - there was also a link to an article in an old post; I'll see if I can find it 

Ah-ha - it's another book in the recommended list at the top of the behaviour board: Barry Eaton - Dominance, Fact Or Fiction

Also didn't John Fisher who pushed forward the pack theory then later on began to discredit his own theory

Teenage cockers can sometimes be a handful and this is the time when they begin to push the boundaries a bit (like any teenage animal/human does).


aaaaaaaargh any behaviourist of any worth will not automatically assume a cocker has rage --- would they say the same of a lab or retriever, or other dog NO


I see you're in the Manchester area so speak to Jan/Billy as she knows someone who is brilliant to help your dog

[happydog]

I HAVE SPOKEN WITH A BEHAVIOURIST/TRAINER AT LENGTH LAST NIGHT, HOWEVER THE TOPIC OF RAGE CAME UP (HAVE LOOKED INTO THIS WHEN WE FIRST GOT HIM BUT DID NOT KNOW ABOUT THE CONDITION WHEN I PICKED HIM) OTHERWISE I WOULD HAVE GONE FOR A ROAN/PART-COLOURED. ANYWAY I AM OBVIOUSLY CONCERNED.

I cannot agree more with the above posts. I would not feel comfortable at all continuing with someone who is so obviously prejudiced.

I WILLTAKE HIM TO HIS TRAINING CLASSES SO HE CAN INITIALLY ASSESS HIM AND TAKE IT FROM THERE

  Sincerely hope you look around a bit more before you commit yourself to this particular class.

[Worthy]

  Hi  I am on the case already and have spoken with alternative behaviourists none have mentioned rage, I am going to a one to one session with Kasper and the kids on Monday, I too doubt the rage theory as when i researched it was described as a unprovoked frenzied attack without warning. Is £50 an hour the going rate? My only concern with the session I have booked is that it is not in our home. I have also enrolled in training classes again as i let it slide over xmas, the kids are also encouraged to attend with me.

Kasper's was bought from a kennels in Darbyshire.
I saw a copy of his parents pedigree but he has not been KC registered (before anyone asks i don't know why, he was just bought for a pet so his pedigree didn't worry me at the time) and yes i know that was wrong and i should have been more careful but hindsight is a wonderful thing. I saw his mum and litter mates but not his dad, the breeder was very nice and the puppies were clean and well looked after (in outdoor heated kennels). I appreciate that their may be something in his breeding/background, but regardless of where he came from, he is here and I would not want to re home/return him until absolutely necessary and definitely not till the other avenues have been exhausted. We love him loads and are all extremely attached to him now "warts n all".  However i am sure all those with kids can appriciate my concern, I just want us all to be happy together.

As i said in a previous post I am unsure if it is because my son moves him off the couch (which we all do but he is very persistant, every time i turn my back he is back on ). I think we may have confussed him, therefore no more sitting on the couch or laying on my bed, the kids and visitors have been told not to over baby/fuss him and he has his own space in the utility room where he can go to be alone.

I have also enquired about getting him castrated as he has not been done yet, just did not want to do it too early

Once again thanks for your support , much appreciated x

If Jan/Billy reads this thread again hope you can point me in the direction of a bahaviourist who knows Cocker's.

[CarolineL]

It does sound like you love him loads  who can resist them!?!

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but as you rightly say you have him now, and are there to work through his problems. I only asked where you bought him from simply because I saw you lived in Manchester and I thought you may have bought him from an shop that I have heard about on COL.

Your kids have to come first and even us without kids can understand that - at the same time, as you are teaching them, they have to respect Kasper too. 

A good investment is a house line - if you do a search you will find lots of information on them, by using one it means you can encourage Kasper off the sofa without touching him. 

Try pming Jan/Billy - Im sure she'd be happy to point you in the direction of her behaviourist

You can actually claim behaviourist charges through some insurance companies - I think you will need to get a referral from your vet though.

Hope it works out for you.

x

[PennyB]

If Jan/Billy reads this thread again hope you can point me in the direction of a bahaviourist who knows Cocker's.

PM her so she can give you the details of the person in your area who is very good

[Hurtwood Dogs]

Hi  I am on the case already and have spoken with alternative behaviourists none have mentioned rage, I am going to a one to one session with Kasper and the kids on Monday, I too doubt the rage theory as when i researched it was described as a unprovoked frenzied attack without warning. Is £50 an hour the going rate? My only concern with the session I have booked is that it is not in our home. I have also enrolled in training classes again as i let it slide over xmas, the kids are also encouraged to attend with me.

Kasper's was bought from a kennels in Darbyshire.
I saw a copy of his parents pedigree but he has not been KC registered (before anyone asks i don't know why, he was just bought for a pet so his pedigree didn't worry me at the time) and yes i know that was wrong and i should have been more careful but hindsight is a wonderful thing. I saw his mum and litter mates but not his dad, the breeder was very nice and the puppies were clean and well looked after (in outdoor heated kennels). I appreciate that their may be something in his breeding/background, but regardless of where he came from, he is here and I would not want to re home/return him until absolutely necessary and definitely not till the other avenues have been exhausted. We love him loads and are all extremely attached to him now "warts n all".  However i am sure all those with kids can appriciate my concern, I just want us all to be happy together.

As i said in a previous post I am unsure if it is because my son moves him off the couch (which we all do but he is very persistant, every time i turn my back he is back on ). I think we may have confussed him, therefore no more sitting on the couch or laying on my bed, the kids and visitors have been told not to over baby/fuss him and he has his own space in the utility room where he can go to be alone.

I have also enquired about getting him castrated as he has not been done yet, just did not want to do it too early

Once again thanks for your support , much appreciated x

If Jan/Billy reads this thread again hope you can point me in the direction of a bahaviourist who knows Cocker's.

I'm so pleased to read this, it sounds like you have your head well screwed on and are doing all the right things.. it's so easy to loose your nerve a bit when you see your pup behaving in certain ways - particularly where kids are involved. I was pregnant when my pup was doing it and had visions of him eating my baby the minute I brought him home! I also had worries about rage because of what uninformed people said to me about cockers and lots of other panics! Second time around with a cocker I have no worries at all (despite him being a complete wotist as young pup), I know he'll grow out of it..

I think your rules about sofa's and beds will help a lot too.. lots of luck am rooting for you and I'm sure in a few months time you'll have a dream dog and have totally forgotten about all this  I'd get another golden boy without a moments hesitation 

Hannah x

[Worthy]

Take it you were talking about Dogs r Us, formally known as Mayfield kennels, I would never buy a dog from there they are all so tiny when compaired to a normal litter of healthy pups 

[Gunner]

Correct me if i'm wrong but don't you have him advertised on ***** for £350 

[CarolineL]

Correct me if i'm wrong but don't you have him advertised on ***** for £350 

It seems to be the same pup/same picture/same area

Worthy - if you really dont want to work through the problems with your cocker spaniel I would suggest that you look at rehoming him through a reputable rescue. Have you not seen the state of some of the dogs that end up at puppy farms. Some of these poor dogs were probably purchased through the free ad type papers and used/abused til they were no longer wanted, or the poor dogs that end up being shoved from pillar to post and are eventually PTS because not one of their owners is prepared to work through their problems - they just want their money back. 

[Sheryl]

I fear Charlotte is right and it is the same dog   Please, please do what Caroline says and consider a rescue rather than a free ad.  I know you won't get the money but at least the poor wee lamb will go somewhere that he is going to be loved