8 months old, early morning barking, what should i do? Help!! U/D still no joy

[rebeccabloor]

Hi all,

After some advice please because i'm not sure what to do the the right results..............

Bentley has always been fairly good at night going right through till 7/7.30 since he was 3 months old.

Anyway, in the last few weeks he has been waking early (5/6 am) and whining and yapping then builds up to full barking if we don't get up 

There is no apparent reason for this and i know its not for the toilet as he has woke me up in the night before when OH hasnt toileted him properly before hes gone bed, and his barking is very different when its the toilet he needs. and i have got up in the last 2 wks and he hasnt been interested in going out at all, just play 

It has started to stress the household in the morning, and i believe he is trying to dictate when he gets up and is 'trying it on'. I've have said to OH that we need to IGNORE this behaviour because if he (bentley) thinks that his noise has got us up then it will encourage more of the same unwanted behaviour.

Am i correct in this action and is it likely to curb his unwanted barking?

Also, when i decide to get up and come down stairs to put the kettle on i will not let him out his crate straightaway, i will not even look at bentley untill he is quiet. Is this sending the right msg to him?

Bentley does appear to be a very 'vocal' cocker and we have never encouraged him to be noisy.
I would just like to get some control again or at least know that what im doing is the right thing to do cause it really is wearing me and OH down and George is missing out on his sleep too!!!!!     

UPDATE. Still no joy on the barking. I don't know what else to do. 

I realise alot of COLers have their fluffy babies in their bedrooms on floor or bed and my OH has suggested having him in his bed on the floor tonight because he is so tired at being woken up.......

I'm really not happy about just letting him (Bentley) manipulating me into a desicion i didn't want to make based on the last 4 weeks of barking from 5 am...........

He has been crated every night since coming home to us and i'm unsure as to why he isn't conforming to us ignoring him till 7am? He BARKS CONSTANTLY for up to 2 HRS.

I thought it was the neighbour leaving but this isn't the case. He has started when there has been no distraction at all. I have been half awake when he starts. We dare not go toilet in the small hours incase that starts him off....

We are all putting ear plugs in but not until waking us all and we all ignore him when we get up at 7am but he soon shuts up when i enter the kitchen knowing i won't even look at him until he's quiet. He responds well when i'm up but not when we are upstairs..............

Please someone tell me this is all worth it!!!! We are on the verge of breaking point. Im so tired and i have been very tearful tonight because you all know how it can get you down i'm sure.


 

[Crazy Cocker Gang]

For the last four weeks has he got absolutly no attention when barking?
In situations like this it only takes one family member to go to him whilst hes barking for it to become a strong behaviour

[Karma]

If it is absolutely at 5am every morning, there is another way around the problem, though it will involve some very early mornings...

Set your alarm for 4.45am and get up - let him out and sit quietly in the lounge with him - no play, dim lights etc... at first he will want to race around and play, but gradually he will learn that this is "quiet" time (and you should at least be able to snooze with him...) once this is established, gradually set your alarm 5 minutes later, though occassionally go earlier again, so that he doesn't think all his quiet behaviour is getting him left longer.... so go for 4.50am, then 4.55am, then 5am, but then go back to 4.50am for one day, then 5am, then 5.05am and so on.  Don't rush this process, however tempting it may be.  It might take a week at 5am for him to be calm and relaxed, but then 5.05am may only take a day....   

This gets him used to the idea that you will get up even if he doesn't wake you up, and also that you getting up doesn't mean lots of fun and games and attention and breakfast, but it is actually quite boring... 

We did this with Honey when she started a similar age to Bentley, as she was scratching the doors to get up from 6.15am - I was very unimpressed when I had to start setting my alarm at 6am, but we quite quickly got her into a routine of 7.15 mornings, which are managable... she sometimes lets us lie in until 7.30 at the weekends!!!!    The other thing this did was meant that when there were noises which had previously startled her and caused her to want our attention, she was able to get used to them and not react (there is a dog a few doors up who often barks in the garden at 6.30ish... she used to join in, but doesn't now...).

Good luck!

[babushka]

Hang on in there now you know whats causing it, I thought it may be the dawn chorus! does it still happen at the weekend when next doors hubby maybe does'nt go to work?

[rebeccabloor]

In the first week OH got up to let him out and put him back again thinking it was the toilet he wanted but this wasn't the case.

Once last wk OH had an early start and got up at 6am for work and when he went downstairs allowed him out once he stopped making a noise.

When we return home after being out he gets no attention until he is silent and tbh he quietens down VERY quickley as he's cottoned onto the fact that he has to be quiet to be let out.

in the last 4 wks we have had 3 mornings of quietness.

I don't believe we have re-inforced his behaviour at all, but i would like someone to tell me what i am doing IS going to acheive the right results............

[rebeccabloor]

Hi Karma

Bentley isn't wakine the same time every morning.

Sometimes it's 5am or 20 past or 6am or quarter to 6 or half 6.

There is no 'normal' time.

It isn't the neighbour Baboshka. Thought it was but it just so happened the mornings i heard the neighbour he started the noise but the w-end gone there was NO noise at all as i was half awake at 5.45am and he started.

OH went to the toilet on 2 of the mornings in the last wk and he started. that was between 4.30 and 5.30am so i had a go at OH for going toilet as it disturbed him. Ridiculous that we can't go toilet now just to hope for more peace and quiet! 

[cerinrich]

I don't have any advice, I'm afraid, just sympathy. Hattie is very vocal and that's the only thing that still stresses me about her. I really hope that you find a solution -I know the 'I'm exhausted and in tears because of my dog' feeling and it's a pretty bad one

[Lynne L]

We had a spate of the barking in the night from Paddy were getting up and settling him etc but then he would start again and this went on and on. We tried the getting up and letting him out, but not speaking etc but nothing worked and as soon as we left the room he started again. This problem started after we had been on holiday and he had slept in our room in a holiday cottage. Previously for 3 years he had slept downstairs in the kitchen quite happily but clearly preferred the 'new' routine. To overcome the constant waking, our solution has been to move his bed onto the landing and put the clothes airer across our bedroom door as a 'gate' but leaving the door open. That way he knows he is near us but he is not in the bedroom or on the bed and he has settled really well and we all get a good nights sleep. Don't know if this is a possibility? I have to say that although he could quite easily jump over or knock over the clothes airer he doesn't so it's a psychological barrier rather than physical.
Lynne

[supergirl]

Really do sympathise with you - its no joke when you're regularly losing sleep.  Have you tried leaving his crate open?  I found this made quite a difference to Roly (now 9months).  He never used to bark, but he had decent howl which would start in the early hours.  To be fair to him, he did need the loo each time.  However a change of food helped greatly. 

How does he spend his evenings - is he allowed to be with you.  I found separating Roly for a couple of hours where he could have no access to us also helped and if he was quiet his reward was that he could come into the sitting room with everybody else, but he had to be calm otherwise he would have to go back out again.

Have to admit that I have allowed him to sleep upstairs now which was my intention at some point as Misha does already.  He still woke me up early - so having them in the bedroom isn't always the answer.  So now he's back downstairs.  He didn't like it but after a few days settled back into being downstairs.  I have to say he does seem to have matured quite noticeably in the last few weeks  - he had always been such a baby comparied to Misha at the same age.

Don't be afraid to take some "time out" from Bently.  On a couple of occassions both work & Roly became very stressful along with lack of sleep I was at breaking point and like you very tearful.  I booked Roly into kennels overnight, felt incredibly guilty, but it did wonders.  Took him for a good walk in the morning before dropping him off and then again when I picked him up the following evening. I missed him terribly and he had a loads of attention when he got home.   If he does bark when in kennels he's not going to get any attention whatsoever, and I did find that Roly made less of a fuss the next morning.  It did mean that I could get myself back to normal.

[cerinrich]

Just wondering how you're getting on?

[rebeccabloor]

It's still no better.

It's effecting the way i feel about him.

The odd morning he might not bark before we get up but the majority of the time he wakes us up at stupid-o'clock.

He has started barking when being let out in the garden now which i don't mind if its a couple of 'woofs' but if it carries on i go out and get him in.

We are still ignoring him and when we come into the kitchen he shuts right up. I don't let him out straight away though. I put the kettle on and prepare the cup of tea before he is let out. If he remains quiet.

It isn't an option him sleeping upstairs.

My son has his bedroom door open and we have ours shut so if he is on the landing he will go into George.

Also if we ever go on holiday abroard i have serveral friend who would look after him, but i can't expect them to have him upstairs in their house when he is supposedly 'crate trained'.

I couldn't let anyone have him at the moment the way he is, he would drive them mad.

Me and OH are going to snowdonia at the end of march for a week for our anniversary and we are taking bentley.
My son is going to visit my brother and family with  my mum so we are child free.
I have to say i'm dreading being woken up every morning of my holiday because he wants us up when he wakes.
I hate to say it but it's making me dislike him. But i know thats because of him disturbing my sleep and waking my son up all the time.

[SkyeSue]

Sorry to hear there's not been any improvement Rebecca; hope someone comes along with some more tips for you. I can't imagine what I would do, perhaps consider a behaviourist, or one to one trainer? I really don't know, but its very sad that its making you feel resentful towards him; but understandable if you're not getting enough sleep.

[SimonandMandy]

Have you tried leaving a radio on low for him - radio 2 can work a treat? or back to puppy basics like leaving a ticking clock near him.

What about leaving Bentley with the run of a room rather than crate - Harvey is a real fidget and moves from spot to spot during the night but has been so much calmer.  Even when we go out he has run of house and he hasn't done damage but it has settled him?  (this is the boy who resorted to breaking out of a savic crate to make his point known  )

[rebeccabloor]

I used to put the radio on for him in the early days, and because of him waking at the slightest noise upstairs i put it back on for him about 10 days ago.

I also put one of his blankets over the front of the crate to give a more 'night time' enviroment.

I also put in an old t'shirt of mine in the crate.

As for leaving the crate door open......................

Recently he has been getting up on the table to get whatever he can via the chair.
I have been upstairs less than 5 mins and come downstairs to find various pieces of fruit on the floor.
Other items that he's had from the table are:- My hairdressing equiptment, combs in a thousand pieces, section clips mutilated, clipper combs chewed up, leather holding pouch ripped. Selotape chewed to bits. sticky roller for clothes demolished. my pocket diary ripped to shreds, any paper or card is in a thousand pieces so you see leaving the crate door open really isn't an option.

i don't know how he gets up there as we push all the chairs in.

I have removed everything bar the vases and fruit bowl, and then he got my cook book at the end of the kitchen units.

My fear is if i remove everthing he will start on the units/ chairs/table.

It might stop the barking but i might find my kitchen in pieces...............

I just dn't get it.

He's walked every day and is really good on lead/longline/recall etc

He does ANYTHING for a treat therefore is good at commands and tricks.

He get a fair bit of attention cuddleswise and we don't move the goalposts eg he's not allowed on the sofas or upstairs, he doesn't jump up or smother guests.......

I know that if we let him in the bedroom to sleep then the barking will stop but is this really my only option?

I thought ALL behaviour could be trained?

 

[Eceni]

All behaviour *can* be trained - so what you have in simple behavioural terms, is a behaviour that is either being reinforced, or is self-reinforcing and what needs to happen is that either the reinforcement stops or something incompatible becomes more reinforcing.

If it were me, I'd look at the physical things first.  My lurcher began to bark when she outgrew her crate. It wasn't obvious to me, because when she first went in, she curled up and it looked huge, but when she stretched out, she was cramped.  I changed for a bigger crate and the barking stopped.

so - is the crate big enough?  Is he becoming cold?  Is there a draught?  Is there an out-door light shining in?   All these things can be fine initially but become uncomfortable in the long, dark, cold night.

if you can rule out distress-barking, then there's something reinforcing what's going on and you need either to remove the reinforcer or create an alternative reinforcer.  I'd read through Ian Dunbar's 'Before and After getting your puppy' and see if anything can be done.  Getting the pup addicted to chewing Kongs and making sure there's one in his bed with something inaccessible (a piece of freeze dried liver in the tiny hole at the top.  Peanut butter smeared inside) can get him chewing on it and chewing is relaxing. 

if it were me, I'd invite him onto the bed, but if that's not your thing, then you may need a behaviourist who can look at the situation in situ so to speak.

good luck

e