help please

[grunty]

he sleeps during the day no problem at all we have just started covering the crate ( today is the first day crate has been covered) he loves the crate no prob. the problem starts at 2 ish between 10 oclock and 2 hes fine.. so far after 2 he just wont shut up even when i go down he still carries on whineing major help needed .ps we do take him outside to the loo before hes put in his crate ive put my t shirt in with him that never worked ive put a radio on that never worked this is a killer and were really tired

[grunty]

hi yes hes used to his crate ok during the day its at night when the problem starts he just wont stop whineing we take him out before putting him in the crate sometimes he messes about sometime he doesnt ive put my t shirt in with him played a radio at night but come 11 oclock he starts whineing and barking and will not be quite no matter what i do ive taken him out for a wee or poo and he still cries major help needed we are very very tired my 2 little girs are suffuring  i cant sleep next to him hes on kitchen floor and i work a lot of hours and need my sleep , he has a toy with him weve taken it out put it back in , he still whines please please please someone help us 

[Jeanette]

Lack of sleep is a nightmare, luckily we never had that problem with the cocker just my son.    Is the crate in the kitchen or downstairs.   If its that bad, I would suggest getting a small soft crate and having it in your bedroom just to get some sleep - well thats what I'd do anyway as I wouldn't be able to cope with lack of sleep and going to work.   

[grunty]

the crate is in the kitchen

[Jeanette]

the crate is in the kitchen

Same set up as ours.   Do you think you would be able to get a crate in your bedroom - just a small one or is that idea completely out of bounds.   We don't have pets sleeping on our bed in our house but if necessary for a bit of peace and sleep, I would have a small crate by the bed with the door shut so that the puppy knows you are there.   It depends really how desperate you are for sleep, the other alternative is to keep doing what you have been doing and that is if he cries let him out for the toilet, DO NOT PLAY at all and once finished put him back in the crate as long as you know hes been toilet and further noise can be ignored but its how long you are prepared to do this for.    I'm being honest now, lack of sleep can cause all sorts of problems and can damage relationships when it should be a bonding period.     

I have referred to your pup as he, forgive me if I'm wrong as some posts say she and some posts say he so not sure.   

Good luck, maybe others who have gone through this can advice, my pup slept from day one but thats not something you really want to hear, I'm sure I won't be so lucky with a future pup.   

[GinnyB]

I'm sorry you are having such a hard time, you have had a lot of good advice here and I have nothing to add to that because I keep my pups in my room with me where they sleep in their beds. However, I don't have to work so I realise I am in a different position.
I just wanted to say hang on in there, it will be so worth it in the end.

[Rats and Dogs]

Lack of sleep is a nightmare, but this WILL pass, you just have to be patient and don't pass any negativity onto the pup or he will become more stressed.

When I worked with pups in rescue, we had one returned after less than a week because they couldn't take his crying.   I rehomed him to someone else and they reported back that within another week or so he was perfect during the night. It just takes time.

I understand that you are working, but why won't your wife sleep with him for a few nights?

[sassie]

You sound really desperate and I really feel for you, its so easy to forget they are still babies and feel resentful when suffering from lack of sleep.  We got our puppy at 10 weeks old and she had been used to a crate, so on the first night I put the crate by my bed so that she could see and hear me, and I could still sleep in a comfy bed - she howled the house down.

I also had a puppy pen in the living/dining room (taking up a quarter of the room) and I bought her downstairs and popped her in the pen,where all through the day as long as she knew I was there then she would doze, BUT she kept a half eye open and I knew I would have to sleep on the sofa, or go through the howling again.

I slept downstairs for a week on a 2 seater sofa (and twisted my patella round in the night),kept it dark all night and when she grizzled, just verbally reassured her and told her to'go to sleep, I'm here' - it isn't easy I know.  At the end of the week, she stopped watching where I was and fell into deep sleep and I crept off to bed, admittedly sometimes at 2:00-ish in the morning, and then was up again at 5:30 for her.  I love this site, but was too tired to post or read the posts, but just grabbed sleep as and when I could.

I know you work, but if I were you this is what I would do - before bedtime play with him and tire him out, or take him for a small walk and then play with him.  Make sure his tummy is full and once he has eaten wait and keep him up until he has wee-ed and poohed.  Then I would pull the crate over to the sofa where you are sleeping, pop him in and don't get him out again (unless to pop him on the garden to toilet) - tell him 'bedtime', get yourself comfortable, switch off all the lights, (I kept the TV on low because I knew it may be a long process but that's up to you).  Once he is fast asleep creep off to bed,  but you may have to resign yourself to a week of sofa sleeping.

Hard I know but remain calm and consistent - I forgot what my bed felt like and my knee killed me, I just had to get her settled at night and as she rejected the cage next to my bed, I knew I had to get her settled downstairs as much as it wasn't the plan, it has eventually worked.  Although I was up at 4:00 this morning with her in the garden for a wee and then couldn't get back off to sleep again, although she did  

It's easy for me to say all this as I work from home - but you may have to sacrifice some sleep in order to get him where you want him.  I do feel for you.

I also bought a dog appeasing diffuser from Vets at Home, which I believe made her calmer at night, and plugged it in an hour before her bedtime.  I still do this and take great comfort from other COL-ers who have been there and know it passes.

[waggytails]

I have nothing more to add as i do think you have been give good advice, except i do sympathise with you, i remember sitting outside in the garden after having Hattie for 2 weeks, i was breaking my heart, i was so tired, all i wanted was to have a decent nights sleep, it will eventually settle just keep going and grab some sleep when ever you can.

[sassie]

any news?   how did last night go, was it an improvement? Hope you managed to get some sleep.

[bluegirl]

Sleep deprivation is a killer, but it seems like you are expecting miracles from your new pup. At that age he's like a baby, it takes time to develop a routine and then they come to realise that you have not run off and you do reappear in the morning. Up until you buying him and bringing him home he has had constant company day and night, either his mother or his littermates will have been with him to reassure him everything is ok. You have taken him from all he knows and expect him to settle on his own, in a strange place, with strange people.

Get a routine going, feed him early, have him calm before bedtime, put him in his crate and close the door. Maybe leave on a baby night light for a bit of a light source, or leave the blinds open. Go upstairs and leave him. Once he wakes come down, keep contact and excitement to a minimum. Offer him outside only, I go with them and give toilet command. Offer verbal reward if he does something then bring him straight in. If he doesn't do anything and he looks light he wants to play, bring him in and put him back in crate. Tell him he's good and exit the room.
By doing this you are reassuring him with your presence, allowing him to relieve himself, if that is why he cried, but minimal contact is letting him know bedtime is not a time for playing and cuddling, that will only happen in the day time.

Most pups only cry for a couple of days when they go to new homes, some do cry longer but it usually because something that is being reinforced in the routine that makes the pup continue and sometimes it can be from problems with the pup ie poor hearing or poor eyesight that makes them fearful if alone.

Anger and frustration from owners towards their new pup is not what is required in this situation as it could lead to an insecure and nervy dog in the future. Calmness and routine will win out. (But I can understand anyones frustration going through this time, but just remember every phase a pup goes through is usually very short lived in comparison to a baby).

[bajoleth]

I know I am going to sound hard now but on Belles 1st night she was put in her basket with paper down in front, a blanket that had come from her mum wrapped around a warm hot water bottle, a red dimmed light and radio on low, both she had at 'home'. I closed the gate to the kitchen but left the door open, she did cry but not for very long. 2nd night did exactly the same she cried bit for even less by the 3rd night she settled herself down. I personally don't see it as cruel she soon realised noone was coming and she had everything to remind her of home she settled much quicker than if she could see me or if I was going down to her all the time, maybe you should just give it a try as you don't seem to be getting anywhere with what you are doing

[bracken]

We have had dogs for 30 years and our last puppy Rosie was awful at night. We got her at 6 months and she cried and screamed during the night for 3 months until I could take no more (hubby drives along way to work and he was having problems staying awake at the wheel  )

He was very against dogs in our bedroom but Rosie does now sleep upstairs on my own bed.

For my others I never use crates so we have put paper down on a wipe clean floor and a cozy bed in the room too  they cried for the first few nights but soon settled into a routine.

Good luck with your pup 

[sassie]

I know I am going to sound hard now but on Belles 1st night she was put in her basket with paper down in front, a blanket that had come from her mum wrapped around a warm hot water bottle, a red dimmed light and radio on low, both she had at 'home'. I closed the gate to the kitchen but left the door open, she did cry but not for very long. 2nd night did exactly the same she cried bit for even less by the 3rd night she settled herself down. I personally don't see it as cruel she soon realised noone was coming and she had everything to remind her of home she settled much quicker than if she could see me or if I was going down to her all the time, maybe you should just give it a try as you don't seem to be getting anywhere with what you are doing

I don't think that sounds hard because this is exactly how I would have done things if I lived in a detached house, it's how my mum always did it and what she taught us. It's just that I had to modify things for fear of disturbing the neighbours, who were quite apprehensive about the news that we were getting a puppy, and it is true that this made it longer and me more sleep deprived, but we're getting there now. 

[bluegirl]

I know I am going to sound hard now but on Belles 1st night she was put in her basket with paper down in front, a blanket that had come from her mum wrapped around a warm hot water bottle, a red dimmed light and radio on low, both she had at 'home'. I closed the gate to the kitchen but left the door open, she did cry but not for very long. 2nd night did exactly the same she cried bit for even less by the 3rd night she settled herself down. I personally don't see it as cruel she soon realised noone was coming and she had everything to remind her of home she settled much quicker than if she could see me or if I was going down to her all the time, maybe you should just give it a try as you don't seem to be getting anywhere with what you are doing

I don't think that sounds hard because this is exactly how I would have done things if I lived in a detached house, it's how my mum always did it and what she taught us. It's just that I had to modify things for fear of disturbing the neighbours, who were quite apprehensive about the news that we were getting a puppy, and it is true that this made it longer and me more sleep deprived, but we're getting there now. 

I just want to add to this as it has happened twice to us with different pups and if I had of left them all night I think the outcome may have been very different.

Senario 1,
 Put new pup to bed in a basket in the kitchen. Said Night night and turned light off and went upstairs. Bonnie howled and cried as was not happy to be left. Let her be and hoped she would settle. Approx 30 mins later I went down to put her to bed again. Opened kitchen door to find pup had disappeared. Searched room only to find she had tried to climb behind kitchen radiator (which had been on) and was wedged. Had to manually removed her. Thankfully no harm done.

Senario 2,
Put new pup to bed, same routine, different pup. Put her in basket in kitchen as above and left room. Again started to howl and whinge and cry. Tried to leave her to settle, but no such luck. Left for similar time period then went down to check. Penny not in view. Frantically checked the kitchen and no sign of her. Started shouting her to come to me and heard wimpering from behind the washing machine. Had to pull out washing machine from the gap between the fitted cupboards and found her half way up the wall clinging to the pipework. Anything could have happened  but again luckily she was safe.

So I'd never ever leave them all night now if the cry. I have since bought CCTV so I can also see them whilst I'm in bed, so I know they are safe.