Cuts all over legs from puppy

[Londonwriter]

Our 11-week-old working Cocker puppy keeps attacking us. He lives in a play pen in the kitchen when we're not training/playing with him. Sometimes, either when we let him out the play pen or after a while of playing (on his own or with a tug toy) in the living room, he'll go completely hyper and start biting.

Today, when my husband let him out of the play pen, he bit me and my husband constantly for about 30 minutes. He wouldn't be distracted onto tug toys, refused to train or obey commands, and kept biting my feet and legs. He wasn't nipping - he was actually trying to chew me.

My husband had to physically restrain him because he was attacking me so relentlessly that I had to jump onto a chair to escape him. He was leaping up at me and tearing at my clothes and legs.

When I removed my socks, I had small bleeding cuts all over my feet and knees. I was puppy yelping at him (which normally causes him to stop), standing still, etc. It just made his behaviour worse.

When he wasn't biting me, he was pelting about doing endless laps of the room, and flinging himself manically onto things. He's got about three days before we can take him out for a walk on lead (had second set of vacs last Thursday)

We're doing the 'off' exercises in the forum biting advice (our puppy class trainer told us to do them), but once he gets into a mood like that, I could beam him into space and he wouldn't take any notice.

Is this normal puppy behaviour or is biting frenziedly a sign there's something wrong with him?   I'm scared he's got 'Cocker rage'

[JennyBee]

It's completely normal and definitely not cocker rage . There have been several threads recently about this, I'll hunt them out for you........

Welcome to COL

here we go:

http://www.cockersonline.co.uk/discuss/index.php?topic=66592.0
http://www.cockersonline.co.uk/discuss/index.php?topic=65858.0
http://www.cockersonline.co.uk/discuss/index.php?topic=65657.0

[Rats and Dogs]

Totally normal puppy behaviour! Mine is 6 months and still like that a lot of the time. The laps around the room are known as The Wall of Death, they tend to get more frantic the older they get.

Jenny will find the threads for you, but I've found the best thing to do is stay quiet and calm, as making any noise or running away gets them even more excited.

[Mrs K]

If you look up posts by Rats and Dogs you will see that this is norm - she calls her pup Ankle Gnasher   Fiiiiiiiiioooooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa - come and tell these people that it is normal  

Welcome to COL and puppy owning  
I am sure some folks will be along soon with some advice for you  

LOL just went to post and you had beat me to it Fiona 

[Rats and Dogs]

  You should have known I'd have something to say on this one Lorna!

This was my thread when Duggie was at his worst:

http://www.cockersonline.co.uk/discuss/index.php?topic=63527.0

[Holly2009]

I think letting him bite you for 30mins sounds like the perfect puppy game, Holly our pup would be in heaven, as soon as Holly even has a glint of 'hyper bitey pup' shes put out the room or if were playing in the garden I leave...and she's on her own to calm down.
Im guessing he wont have a clue what he's doing wrong if he's aloud to do it for 30mins. I think first nip, warning...second nip and games over!! I really dont think its rage, reading about attacks they come from no where, dog is in like a trance, eyes roll back etc....what your saying sounds like normal puppy play to me!! but Im no expert, Im sure lots of other people on here have great advice. Hope you get it sorted 

[JennyBee]

For time outs or when you need to handle him when he's excited (and less likely to have any self control over mouthing) it would be useful to have a houseline for gently leading him instead of having to resort to physically handling........... There's a lot of us who have gone through this and it does get better! It's unbelievable how something so small could cause so much pain

[Colin]

He lives in a play pen in the kitchen when we're not training/playing with him. Sometimes, either when we let him out the play pen or after a while of playing (on his own or with a tug toy) in the living room, he'll go completely hyper and start biting.

How long is he spending on his own in the pen and are you in the same room as him when he's there ? If it's excessive amounts of time it could be that he's unable to contain his excitement when he gets out. Cockers are social creatures and thrive on company... they do have to get used to spending time alone but this needs to be built up gradually.

[Londonwriter]

Thanks. He's usually a lovely puppy. Lively, inquisitive and energetic, but friendly. He's great with new people and children. So, when he starts 'land sharking' everywhere, I keep thinking there's something wrong with him. It's also really scary - the definition of a 'frenzied attack'.

If it's normal, we'll persist with the training and hope he grows out of it. It's possible he was in the long-term confinement area too much today - we were doing Christmas shopping and came back every couple of hours. However, we were just feeding him and taking him out to the loo - not giving him a run around the living room or anything.

It might be he's there too long. I've noticed he'll get really land-sharky on weekdays when I'm on deadline and stressed (I work from home). It's possible that's because he spends less time out on those days.

[rwasinski]

To echo Colin's question, is your your puppy out of the pen most of the time you are at home? When you say he lives in his pen, apart from playing/training what do you mean?
Sorry, I've just seen your latest post. My own view is that your puppy shouldn't be confined to a pen for the majority of the day. That is perhaps likely to contribute to his frustration and over excitement when let out (perhaps even more so for a working cocker?)

[JennyBee]

Thanks. He's usually a lovely puppy. Lively, inquisitive and energetic, but friendly. He's great with new people and children. So, when he starts 'land sharking' everywhere, I keep thinking there's something wrong with him. It's also really scary - the definition of a 'frenzied attack'.

I was the same with Brodie, she was not a very nice pup . I'd never seen anything like it, but once I realised there was nothing wrong I began to relax and handle things more consistently and she slowly began to improve. When your boy begins to teeth things may get a little worse as he'll be in discomfort, just make sure he has plenty of things to chew (carrots, kongs, a wet flannel that has been frozen is meant to be really soothing too).

I don't know if you've read this article by Ian Dunbar - http://www.cockersonline.co.uk/discuss/index.php?topic=64170.0 but I found it a great help as it taught me mouthing is essential for teaching a puppy bite inhibition.

[PennyB]

I also think what Colin said may be the key as well

Pups are hard work whichever way you look at it whether its making time to socialise them or train them

I also work from home and have just been fostering pups for the past 10 days - a lovely but full on staffy girl (aka bull in a china shop )and a little terrier girl, both quite normal and sweet but very nippy and lively - I had to ask the rescue in the end to foster them elsewhere as my deadlines were creeping up and my fibromyalgia was playing up (I needed more time for my work but the pups also needed more time and two were just too hard work for me at the moment).

Am afraid for it to work and have a well balanced pup you may need to make more time for him

One way of doing this is to make sure you take more breaks - they do say if your sitting at a desk you have to take regular breaks then may be why not factor them in and play with your pup.

Don't forget to also carry him out and about as well so he can see the sights and sounds of the world around.

[Londonwriter]

Sorry, I've just seen your latest post. My own view is that your puppy shouldn't be confined to a pen for the majority of the day. That is perhaps likely to contribute to his frustration and over excitement when let out (perhaps even more so for a working cocker?)

I know that's controversial. Unfortunately, he's not toilet-trained properly yet and even though I take him outside every hour, he still goes everywhere. Furthermore, our house is too dangerous at the moment for him to wander around unaccompanied. I can't keep an eye on him continuously while I'm working - don't worry, I've tried.

It's not really a pen - it's a barrier. We have two rooms downstairs and he lives in 1/2 of the kitchen at the moment. Once he's reliably toilet-trained, I'm going to put a stair gate on the stairs and allow him free run of both rooms downstairs.

When I'm on deadline, we still spend hours playing with him. I play with him when I get up. I play with him every hour when I take him to the loo. My husband plays with him all evening when he gets home from work. I've taken him to the playground to meet children, to friend's houses, to puppy class, on excursions around our street so he sees cats, pushchairs and bikes. I've even carried him to the cash machine in the station.  

On Friday, he was out of the pen all day. However, he still had mad biting episodes, particularly when I was having breakfast and when my husband came home from work (presumably, he was happy to see him). There is only so much I can do without starving, not sleeping and quitting my job to look after a puppy full-time.

Sorry for being defensive, but something like 56% of dog owners work full-time outside the home. I don't and he gets tonnes of time from both of us - we don't have children. But it feels like that still isn't good enough...

But thanks again for the links and for the reassurance that Cocker pup demon biting doesn't mean he's crazy. We really love him - I was terrified he was severely unpredictable/mentally unstable and we'd have to give him away eventually

[Maria n Dennis]

Any good breeder would not sell a cocker spaniel puppy to a household that worked full time outside the house , cocker spaniels are well known for thriving off being around people. I think your little pup is getting over excited because he is on his own for too long , so when he does get chance to come out he goes over board  I can sympathise with you about toilet training , my pup is nearly 13 weeks and hes still not quite there , i take him out all the time and constantly watch him for signs that he needs to go  i know he will get there one day 

[Colin]

Reading between the lines it does seem to me that he might be spending a lot of time on his own and this might be part of the problem - although having said that the playbiting can differ alot from pup to pup, Jimmy was pretty good so it came as a shock to me 18 months later when Misty and her gnashing teeth arrived on the scene. I work from home too but my dogs are in the same room as me for the majority of the time and as a result they've learnt to settle and that my presence doesn't automatically mean playtime - it sounds like you are doing your best to give the pup attention but it's interspersed with long periods when he's on his own. Would it not be possible for him to be in the same room as you for at least some of the time that you are working ? A few weeks ago he was with his littermates 24/7 and so it's a big adjusment for him to suddenly find himself alone for large parts of the day. I stupidly had new carpets put in a couple of weeks before Misty arrived and they got ruined - yes it was annoying but she means much more to me than carpets so it felt like it was a sacrifice worth making, carpets can always be cleaned. 

The first few weeks before they are able to go out on walks can be really difficult and frustrating with cabin fever setting in - when is he due his second booster ? ( What's his name by the way ?  )