Thanks for the suggestiions, they have both had antibiotics which made no difference, and yes sadly cost is now an issue as one of my girls has now cost us nearly£3,000 in the last year just for tests and meds for her kidney issues...most as usual wasted money...I will try malaseb shampoo, though concerned as they both have small open sores ontheir lips and this might sting, I am going to try a drop of cider vinegar in their drinking water if only to act as a mild form of treatment, but darent risk Ruby not drinking with her kidneys