any one else really concerned about working cocker health testing?

[Rosie]

At the risk of making myself a bit of a target here I can confirm that I have just got Spice tested  and expect her results within the next couple of weeks.

I have not made a definite decision to breed and have avidly read all threads on here over the last 6 years of cocker ownership. 

My decision will depend on outcome of tests and how things go this year with agility.  Before anyone asks she is not a proven "gundog" but is becoming a very proven agility dog BUT that is another thread.  All I wanted to say was I the fact that Spice was from working lines did not cause me to question whether she should be tested or not.  The fact that she could be tested for a genetic problem is most important to me as one of the key issues when deciding whether I go on and breed or look for a simlarly bred dog.  I would not breed without doing the testing. 

[fenn2006]

  I think thats brilliant and I have often contemplated having Fenn tested....just to know, if you know what I mean....hope Spice's results are positive 

[Nicola]

I think I can safely say that my answer to the original question is most definitely YES   

I do agree that this is issue really is going to require a huge shift in attitudes amongst many of the working/shooting fraternity, I'm also a member of NOBS and frequently have to sit on my hands to keep from posting things which would probably get me banned. The attitude of many of them to breeding is something else, basically anyone who thinks they have a nice dog should be able to breed them as and when they want and anyone who says otherwise should just keep their nose out of it. This head in the sand attitude is very prevalent and as Kirsten says will be very hard to change as people are afraid of what they may find out. You just have to look on the likes of 'that' classified ad site as well to see that there are more and more backyard breeders starting to churn out working cockers as well, health testing will probably not even feature in most of their thought processes.

I hugely applaud what Kirsten is doing with her dogs, we've had many long conversations on this subject including just the other evening and I know where I will be getting my next working cocker pup from. I'm gutted that Rodaidh has been diagnosed with LP and I don't particuarly want to find myself in this situation ever again. He will be hip scored when they X-ray his knees and I am also going to have him Optigen tested as I was planning to do all along to satisfy my own curiosity.

[Helen]

Rosie, Jarv will be tested too - for my own piece of mind, irrelevant of whether I will ever contemplate using him as a stud.  If that makes us a target, we're responsible ones 

[ClareB]

ClaireB - was Milo's dad done under the KC eye scheme or Optigen tested?

TBH, I don't know.     When I was looking at puppies I knew parents should be PRA tested, but didn't know about the various types of tests available for PRA, and certainly didn't know about Optigen testing.  (Only found out about that when I joined COL when Milo was 8 months old.)   I've searched on t'internet for Milo's sire, and it just says "eye tested clear certificate".  I suspect that it probably wasn't the Optigen test and the test may not be worth the paper it was written on.   

[workingcockers]

I suspect that it probably wasn't the Optigen test and the test may not be worth the paper it was written on.

not so..it means at the time he was tested he was unaffected by cpra and gpra. Which is a great start and more than the parents of many worker cockers ever have. The downside if you can call it that, is that its a bit like a car MOT, ie 'at the time of testing was safe'  which is why annual checks were recommended and there is a reduced fee for veteran dogs to try and encourage long term testing, even after breeding age, as this is when late onset problems would be picked up. It was all we had for many years and still has its place esp for cpra and the one off gonio test. The only caveat is that carriers will always have a clear eye certificate under the scheme as they are unaffected but a visual test cannot pick up on the fact that the dog has one copy of the mutant gene. But, it is really good news that Milo's dad has an eye certificate

[Tasha]

I had to twist the arm of the breeder I brought Ayla from to have eye testing done at one of the gamefairs but he did do it not only on her sire and dam but also on her littermate and I have copies of the certificates.  These tests are certainly better than no test at all and they are what the majority of the UK breeder/Owners use.  There is also no excuse to not getting them done as they have eye clinics at most of the gamefairs which are not very expensive.

I still get the yearly check up done because there are other problems that eye can be effected by that could be highlighted during the tests.  Plus if you go to Dr Bedford he lets you have a peak at your dogs eyes and gives a fabulous explanation of what your looking at   I'd find it totally fascinating they have so many more colours gradients than we do I really would love to know how their vision works.

The recommended under the Accredited breeders scheme is Eye Test with Gonioscopy, DNA test for PRA and Hip Scoring.  Which is an excellent start really.

[ClareB]

But, it is really good news that Milo's dad has an eye certificate

Thanks, Kirsten, that's really good to know.    

[*jean*]

I think testing should be easier for folk,.... after all why do optigen have the market? its seems silly that dogs dna has to go to america to be tested . why cant it all be done here in this country by local vets sending a sample off to the lab. for instance Id like to get at least one of mine done out of curiosity, but its all seems  so complicated.. If I could just take the dog to the vet and let them deal with it..but it seems so much more complicated. maybe its just me. Do they ever have a scottish clinic? ie in the highlands? or even north of perth? I really need someone to walk me through it...probably do all the work and Ill take the dog for the blood test and pay for it..not a problem,.... its the geography that gets in the way.
 after all there are plenty old style working cockers here ( and I dont know of any with bad eyesight!)  and if the testing was easier and more accessable maybe youd get the working fraternity round. after all when there were sheep dog trials in the villlage I live in, the local vet was an eye specialist and a lot of the dogs were booked in for annual eye testing. sadly that vet is in inverness now he even may be retired. surley if the collie working crowd are testing the gundog world will follow.. shepherd and keepers..  often one and the same. are the collie crowd ( trialling not showing) going for optigen or is it still the annual eyetest.?

[Jane S]

I think testing should be easier for folk,.... after all why do optigen have the market?

Unfortunately, many canine DNA tests have been legally patented by the companies involved in developing/researching these tests which in the case of prcd_PRA in Cockers is Optigen. This means no other laboratory can offer the test unless they are specifically licensed as agents by Optigen (they have only licensed one Dutch laboratory & one French company in Europe). In practice though, it really isn't that difficult to send samples to Optigen - you don't have to take part in a clinic (although it's cheaper to do so). Your own vet can take the blood samples and then once the paperwork is all filled out, they can be sent on to the US. This is the way we've always done it with our own dogs and it's really quite straightforward as long as you follow Optigen's step by step instructions from their website.

[*jean*]

I think testing should be easier for folk,.... after all why do optigen have the market?

Unfortunately, many canine DNA tests have been legally patented by the companies involved in developing/researching these tests which in the case of prcd_PRA in Cockers is Optigen. This means no other laboratory can offer the test unless they are specifically licensed as agents by Optigen (they have only licensed one Dutch laboratory & one French company in Europe). In practice though, it really isn't that difficult to send samples to Optigen - you don't have to take part in a clinic (although it's cheaper to do so). Your own vet can take the blood samples and then once the paperwork is all filled out, they can be sent on to the US. This is the way we've always done it with our own dogs and it's really quite straightforward as long as you follow Optigen's step by step instructions from their website.

 do they ever do clinics near inverness even? my vets are very up  on cattle and sheep but small animals well not really. tho they do caharge enough.

[Jane S]

All your vets have to do is take a blood sample - they wouldn't have to be small animal specialists or be very knowledgable about DNA tests. I think that's probably the only way you'd be able to do it as I don't see many clinics advertised in Scotland. Anybody can organise a clinic though so if there were enough people interested in Scotland, one could be set up fairly easily (http://www.optigen.com/opt9_clinicinfo.html)

[Tasha]

Optigen themselves only have a licence and they lost part of it to Antegene for Europe for some tests to if you wanted to do both the eye and the FN testing which I wanted to do you can't    they are not the patent holder for the tests.  There are some tests that the UK do like for an example when the coat testing came in last year with a little pressure the AHT under took some genetic research so that they could also offer the same tests.  Antegene sometime just collect the stuff and pass it on though which I find totally ridiculous.  At least their website is in english now though, pity they don't offer the discounts for multidogs that Optigen do though makes the tests very expensive.

The collies are optigen testing I went to one of their clinics had a long discussion about coat colours 

[Jane S]

...if you wanted to do both the eye and the FN testing which I wanted to do you can't    ......Antegene sometime just collect the stuff and pass it on though which I find totally ridiculous. 

It's really very easy to send a sample to Antagene for FN testing and they will then pass on the extracted DNA to Optigen for the PRA test. I'm not sure why you find that ridiculous You only have to take one sample from your dog and send off one package so I can't see the problem there. Antagene also do offer a breeder discount for multiple dogs (although not a particularly generous discount).

If we want these genetic tests, we have to accept that commercial factors do play a huge role in how and where they are offered - much as we might like every test to be easily available via the AHT in the UK, it's just never going to happen.

[Tasha]

when I asked about having both done they weren't able to do it and it would have meant taking two groups of blood samples from the same dog to send it out to two different companies.  The site has definitely improved but I did make alot of enquiries to see if I could get the tests done together and in the end I've done them seperately at different times.  As it was a clinic it would have been a little unfair to have asked them to do the second set of tests and forward it on my behalf to a different company. 

The discount offered from both the multi dna test and the clinic itself would have been lost.

The reason I found it so silly was because the package could have gone direct to Optigen for both tests from the same vials but if I wanted to do the FN test I was advised I would have to send the blood sample and paper work to antegene and they would then forward it to Optigen, it takes longer going via france and then on to the us instead of direct from the UK to the US.  I'm not sure if they are doing the same procedure now or if the test itself is done in France.