What gives vets the right not to listen?

[AnnieG]

Sorry- this is a rant!   Some of you may recall my fury that the veterinary hospital wouldn't listen when I said Cassie's recent near-death pancreatitis could not be caused by bad, high-fat feeding. It's got worse.  I had to take her back to my own vet today to check she is still improving and he showed me the supposedly confidential hospital report.  I am fuming.  All the medical stuff was as expected until the end which went something like 'have recommended change of regime to low fat diet.  Scraps, unsuitable foods and treats like eggs and pilchards in oil have been common."  I am just incredulous - as was my vet who knows us all well.  It serves me right for being totally honest.

The hospital admitted she was not overweight - she weighed 11.5 kilos at the outset and is now down to 10.5 because of the illness. I told them that she gets Burns and vegetables, with occasional sensible table scraps - and I mean 'sensible'; a bit of leftover rice or pasta or fish.  She never gets cakes, biscuits, fatty trimmings, ice cream, cheese, sausages, roast potatoes and all the other things that virtually every other owner seems to chuck at their dogs as a matter of course, and the only sandwiches she gets are the ones she occasionally manages to steal. I might as well have saved my breath.  I was probably a fool to volunteer the fact that she gets a hardboiled egg if we are out on a particularly demanding full day's fell-walking and twice a month they both get a tin of sardines with the oil drained off.  Both were recommended by my previous vet as a good antidote to joint and coat problems and they loved it.  And for this I am being treated as the cretin who has given her dog pancreatitis!!!!    Which is a blimin' good excuse for them not to look for anything else.  

My vet understands my anger. He said he would be out of the small animal business if all owners fed their dogs as wisely as we do. He is still firmly convinced that the illness comes from an infection caused by something in the environment - maybe in the becks or even something leaking from one of the farms.  But I am still absolutely livid (a) that the hospital listens so little and assumes so much and (b) charges thousands of pounds for dishing out stereotyped advice.  And this is supposed to be one of the top veterinary hospitals in the country.   Has anyone else experienced this kind of supercilious, arrogant, thoughtless treatment?

[amanda9586]

Oh my goodness - no wonder you need a rant!!  I'd be livid.    I've not had anything like this but cant you write a letter of complaint at least? or is the fact that it was confidential meant you were not supposed to see it? 

[Annette]

That's awful. At least you have your own vet on your side.

I haven't experienced it particularly with our vet, but I am sure most of us have where our own health care is concerned.

[Mr Darcy]

If it is confidential would your vet write a strongly worded letter, saying that he has known you x number of years and  that the report is written wrong as he has spoken to you asking about the feeding and under no circumstances are you to be given any of the blame for the illness and that he sees this as an attempt to fob you and the vet off and not look for any other cause of the illness.

[Helen]

yes, I've heard of this and worse - someone who has had to deal with the death of their dog through vet negligence (she died of pancreatitus bought on by anti-biotics - the advice offered by the vet was to continue the course of anti-b's to cure the infection she had and when other symptoms - of pancreatitus - presented she was told by the vet to continue the anti-b's which bought on a full blown case.

Once she was at the vets in care there were many issues - she was told to hand feed her dog when she visited when the dog was 'nil by mouth', she found an empty water bowl in her cage when the dog was on a drip and should never have been given fluids and on and on and on    ).  She is desperately trying to get some answers via the RCV and obviously the RCV are definitely protecting their own 

It's terribly sad, wrong, and evident they are covering their own backsides....

I'm glad you've seen the report so you know what you're up against - wish you could find the cause without being blocked like this   

[AnnieG]

Sadly, the letter was confidential and so I can't obey my first instinct which is to drive a 300 mile round trip to flay them alive. I am reluctant to push my vet into a major row on my behalf. No blame attaches to him. He has promised to point out that this doesn't seem likely from his personal knowledge of us all.  But I guess neither of us will really get a chance to force a change in attitude unless Cass has any more problems. In which case I would have to swallow hard to take her back to this hospital, even though the actual medical interventions were excellent.  I don't really care about the slur on my reputation.  But I do care that other people are subjected to the same cynical disbelief, in which case serious health issues may be missed.  

I've just seen Livercake's post and I am horrified. That poor dog.  Rest assured, if Cass has another outbreak, I will make them go back to investigate root causes properly, even if I have to choke them into doing it.  

[Rats and Dogs]

It's horrible that they are blaming you, but it looks like they are pouncing on the fact you gave her certain foods, and trying to make that be the cause, when you and your vet know that it wasn't.

If there is nothing you can do, and you're not worried about your reputation, it's best to forget about it and just concentrate on getting Cassie the best medical help when she needs it.

Helen's post made very uncomfortable reading as I know these things do happen. I am still full of what ifs about Gari as he was given antibiotics when he probably was having a flare up of pancreatitis, but I'll never know if they caused it to get so bad. The best thing for me is to try to stop torturing myself, as it's bad enough.   But, I certainly do think that family should keep fighting for answers.

I hope Cassie keeps well from now on and you don't have to deal with the hospital again, and at least your own vet knows you well enough.

[Helen]

It's horrible that they are blaming you, but it looks like they are pouncing on the fact you gave her certain foods, and trying to make that be the cause, when you and your vet know that it wasn't.

If there is nothing you can do, and you're not worried about your reputation, it's best to forget about it and just concentrate on getting Cassie the best medical help when she needs it.

Helen's post made very uncomfortable reading as I know these things do happen. I am still full of what ifs about Gari as he was given antibiotics when he probably was having a flare up of pancreatitis, but I'll never know if they caused it to get so bad. The best thing for me is to try to stop torturing myself, as it's bad enough.   But, I certainly do think that family should keep fighting for answers.

I hope Cassie keeps well from now on and you don't have to deal with the hospital again, and at least your own vet knows you well enough.

Please don't feel that anything you did hurt Gari  - it's really not that clear cut at all and he had so many contributing factors.  If love could save our dogs, they'd live forever 

The thing that resonates so much with me with Cassie is that like Tilly she had a very very good diet, no previous issues, and the first thing the vets do is pin it on is the owners and diet - yes it is caused a lot of the time by diet but there are many other contributing factors that could cause it 

[Rats and Dogs]

It's horrible that they are blaming you, but it looks like they are pouncing on the fact you gave her certain foods, and trying to make that be the cause, when you and your vet know that it wasn't.

If there is nothing you can do, and you're not worried about your reputation, it's best to forget about it and just concentrate on getting Cassie the best medical help when she needs it.

Helen's post made very uncomfortable reading as I know these things do happen. I am still full of what ifs about Gari as he was given antibiotics when he probably was having a flare up of pancreatitis, but I'll never know if they caused it to get so bad. The best thing for me is to try to stop torturing myself, as it's bad enough.   But, I certainly do think that family should keep fighting for answers.

I hope Cassie keeps well from now on and you don't have to deal with the hospital again, and at least your own vet knows you well enough.

Please don't feel that anything you did hurt Gari  - it's really not that clear cut at all and he had so many contributing factors.  If love could save our dogs, they'd live forever 

I know and I'm trying so hard not to, but I'll always wonder if taking him to the vets after he managed to eat a bit of a fat ball in the park would have saved him. One vet said him eating that may have caused the flare up, but another said it wouldn't have, as it was weeks before it. I can't help thinking that it perhaps caused the tumour to form. At the time I was just relieved that he had poo'd out the string bag. But, hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Annie, I'm hijacking your thread again, I must apologise for keeping doing this. I only hope that anyone reading our posts will be able to recognise any signs in their dogs in the future and it could help to save their lives.

[Mittens]

Sadly I can empathise with your situation all too well - I had to take Pepsi to the emergency surgery (PDSA) one night when she suddenly went really poorly and in a lot of pain literally overnight (vomiting orange water) - she'd had on and off vets visits for sickness and diarrhoea in the previous six months all treated and cleared up with antibiotics - in the emergency vet the only thing they were fixated on was pancreatitis and food - foolishly I said we'd had a 70th party two nights previous and that it was likely she would have been given scraps of party food - that was their mind made up and she said she would be ok but have to go on a strict diet/food regime (If i could manage to stick with it, if not she would die!)....

Well, I collected her and took her to my own vet first thing the next day, where a battery of tests showed she actually had a tumour and she had to be PTS  

Now, I'm not saying that the PDSA vet did wrong or not enough, but I do think his mind about the illness was totally made up based on food issues. Our own vet by the way said her tumour was in no way related to her food and that sadly spaniels are susceptible (our following rescue also died of cancer a year later)....

[Annette]

It's horrible that they are blaming you, but it looks like they are pouncing on the fact you gave her certain foods, and trying to make that be the cause, when you and your vet know that it wasn't.

If there is nothing you can do, and you're not worried about your reputation, it's best to forget about it and just concentrate on getting Cassie the best medical help when she needs it.

Helen's post made very uncomfortable reading as I know these things do happen. I am still full of what ifs about Gari as he was given antibiotics when he probably was having a flare up of pancreatitis, but I'll never know if they caused it to get so bad. The best thing for me is to try to stop torturing myself, as it's bad enough.   But, I certainly do think that family should keep fighting for answers.

I hope Cassie keeps well from now on and you don't have to deal with the hospital again, and at least your own vet knows you well enough.

Please don't feel that anything you did hurt Gari  - it's really not that clear cut at all and he had so many contributing factors.  If love could save our dogs, they'd live forever 

I know and I'm trying so hard not to, but I'll always wonder if taking him to the vets after he managed to eat a bit of a fat ball in the park would have saved him. One vet said him eating that may have caused the flare up, but another said it wouldn't have, as it was weeks before it. I can't help thinking that it perhaps caused the tumour to form. At the time I was just relieved that he had poo'd out the string bag. But, hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Annie, I'm hijacking your thread again, I must apologise for keeping doing this. I only hope that anyone reading our posts will be able to recognise any signs in their dogs in the future and it could help to save their lives.

Staying slightly off topic for a minute......
Aw Fiona, I honestly don't think that could happen. I think it is far more likely that his earlier symptoms were from the tumour even though it wasn't identified at that time (and I am glad that it wasn't as it would have overshadowed your last weeks with him, and would have been VERY unlikely to affect the outcome, unfortunately). You must never blame yourself in any way. Gari had a wonderful life with you and could not have been more loved.

ok, back on topic.

[Rats and Dogs]

Staying slightly off topic for a minute......
Aw Fiona, I honestly don't think that could happen. I think it is far more likely that his earlier symptoms were from the tumour even though it wasn't identified at that time (and I am glad that it wasn't as it would have overshadowed your last weeks with him, and would have been VERY unlikely to affect the outcome, unfortunately). You must never blame yourself in any way. Gari had a wonderful life with you and could not have been more loved.

ok, back on topic.

Thanks for that Annette, and you're right that knowing about the tumour and having Gari living with it, would have made for a very worrying time indeed. I take comfort from knowing that his illness was quick, although a major shock and upset for us, but we will always remember how happy he was running around and swimmimg at Chatelherault just 2 days before.

Right, back on topic now!

[Roslyn McConnell]

Im I being naive in thinking that information written about you cant be confidential from u.....was that not the data protection act of 1984 (or something  ) so u should still be able to complain.....I might just be talking mince tho!

[Rats and Dogs]

Im I being naive in thinking that information written about you cant be confidential from u.....was that not the data protection act of 1984 (or something  ) so u should still be able to complain.....I might just be talking mince tho!

Hmm, it could come under The Freedom of Imformation Act, where you would have right to write to them and ask for a copy of the report...

[Annette]

Im I being naive in thinking that information written about you cant be confidential from u.....was that not the data protection act of 1984 (or something  ) so u should still be able to complain.....I might just be talking mince tho!

Hmm, it could come under The Freedom of Imformation Act, where you would have right to write to them and ask for a copy of the report...

That might be an interesting exercise in itself. I wonder if they would "amend" the records before sending a copy out to you?