WHEN TO NEUTER

[JoandMike]

Our show type male cocker, Bailey, is 9 months old and we'd like some advice as to when to neuter him.

There is so much conflicting information out there it is hard to know what to believe! 

Bailey has rather unique long, dull, thick, fluffy fur (looks like he's part teddy bear!), has dominance issues (though is not aggressive except when it comes to food & we are working on this issue with our trainer) combined with separation anxiety whereby he howls and wees and poos when left alone (again working on this issue with the trainer who now feels this is part of the dominance), is over-confident with no inhibition even if another dog snarls at him, loves people/dogs/cats/even a friends dwarf hamster(!) and is in no way sexually aware or emotionally mature (typical male!!) - whilst the other dogs at training are chasing the females Bailey just wants to play with the males and females! He is also hyper - typical spaniel?!?

Friends have told us that neutering him will calm him down and may help with the dominance issues. 

However others say, including our trainer, he will not mature if you neuter him before the age of at least 12 months.  Also some websites say if we neuter him now his coat will grow back just as woolly/fluffy but much coarser. 

Our neighbour says leave him because otherwise we'd never be able to show him or use him as a stud.  They say he has good potential for both but we're not likely to do either, especially as I couldn't imagine him at a show with other dogs - he'd just go mad with excitement and when there's another dog about he ignores us completely! We have booked him in to be neutered next week but now wonder if we should cancel. 

We really don't know what to do for the best. Any advice welcome.

[JennyBee]

I know you are writing about neutering, but I have to say... Im sorry but you need to change trainers . Dominance is outdated and this is not the reason for his behaviour. You need to find someone who is up to date, can figure out the true reasons behind his behaviour, and who uses positive methods (unfortunately it seems trainers who go on about dominance are much more likely to use aversives).

Behavioural issues are no reason to neuter and could make him worse. Hopefully others will be along with more advice 

[Homebird]

I would wait for some more advice before neutering so early - I know very little about it but have been researching as we may have a male dog soon.  There seem to be significant health issues down the line if you neuter very early.

But others with much more knowledge will be along soon to advise - postponing for a while shouldn't be a problem.  We were taught about dominance with our last dog and I think we caused more problems by seeing it this way.  It was more to do with fear and positive training would have been much better.

[Jan D]

I also have a male cocker and he is entire. I don't believe that neutering will help to calm him down at all. Personally I don't see any reason to neuter unless there is a medical reason for it but someone may come along and dispute this.. As for his coat - we had Roxy spayed and her coat definitely changed and became thicker and much coarser whereas Bobby's is still lovely and soft.

At 9 months he's still a baby and hasn't had a chance to settle down - he's still a doggy teenager.

Please read all the other posts on this site about neutering before you make such a big decision. Why do you want to neuter him at all?

Our Bobby is loopy too - but he's a spaniel...it's all part of what you sign up for when you get one in my opinion.

[JoandMike]

Just to add trainer believes in rewarding positive behaviour and ignoring bad behaviours.  We have tried this consistently and done things by the book but with no effect!  For example up until approx 1 month ago he would howl from 5am every morning until we went down at 6 to take him out to go toilet - sometimes he never even went to the toilet, he just wanted us. After trying the whole ignoring thing for over 4 months our patience wore thin as we were knackered. So we went down and banged on his crate and told him "enough". After doing this 3 days in a row he stopped and now will don't even have to down to let him out of his crate until 6.30am - such relief! I know it sounds bad but ultimately it worked and we're happier owners for it which must make him more content too.

[Archie bean]

Completely agree with JennyBee with regard to his behaviour and that it might help to find a trainer with a different approach.  It sounds to me as though your boy is actually of a nervous disposition and UN confident. He may be overcompensating for this (by being over friendly and exuberant with everyone/thing he meets) but he is not trying to dominate you. It sounds like guarding behaviour similar to that displayed by my own boy Archie. Archie is basically nervous which has been at the root of his possession aggression and guarding issues. The correct training approach, a lot of hard work and time have turned things around for us. Archie is neutered but it made absolutely no difference to his behaviour at all. I had him done at 7 months on the advice of my vet and against my better judgement. I now wish I had trusted my gut and waited until he was at least one so that he had time to fully mature. As far as I know dogs aren't "sexually aware" in the way you describe. Dogs will play with whatever dog appeals to them as a playmate - male or female. Males will only "chase after" females if the female is in season. No in season female should be in a training class as this could lead to serious problems amongst the male dogs.
If you plan to show your dog then I think he will need to remain intact but others who know better will advise on this I'm sure. There are lots of threads on the pros and cons of neutering and many people have strong views on both sides of the argument. It's very difficult but ultimately it's a decision that only you can make.  His coat is currently his puppy coat. If you take a look at the grooming threads then you will see advice on how to deal with this to bring out his adult coat to its full potential. It is generally accepted that the coat of a neutered dog becomes thicker, curlier and more coarse. Archie's is still pretty glossy but I keep him clipped short so it's difficult to tell really!

[BobnDot]

Chaz, our working cocker, is just over a year old now and the jury's still out on whether we'll be getting him neutered.

We'd certainly not get him neutered in an attempt to cure any behavioural issues though.

Bailey, in common with a lot of 9 month old cocker spaniels, can do a very good impression of the hound from hell. It's all part of growing up for them and there are many posts on here about the difficulties that have been experienced with "teenage" cockers........Been there, done it, but the dog chewed my tea shirt  .

Chaz went through all the hyper activity, tried to dominate our show cocker, Milly (She soon cured him of that  ) and displayed just about every anti-social tendency that can be imagined including an insatiable appetite for TV remotes, iPhones, my wallet and the wife's unmentionables  .

Now, just a few months later, he's a completely different dog. He still has the odd "moment" but it's just his way of finding out if the rules still apply  ....They do.

I'd certainly hold off with the neutering for a few more months as you may well find that he's at his worst right now but will soon start to improve.

Bob. 

[Nicola]

If your dog has issues such as possessiveness and separation anxiety he wouldn't be suitable to use as a stud dog as behavioural traits can and do pass on to offspring. However just because you don't use him as a stud doesn't mean you automatically have to castrate him. As has been said these issues can often be caused by insecurity and underconfidence and castration can make this worse (as you remove the dog's testosterone source) so I would be inclined to hold off on having him neutered for the moment while you work on his issues and then when he's older and more mature you can review your decision.

[Helen]

If I were in your shoes my first step would be to find a new trainer or behaviourist (make sure they are APDT accredited) 

He does sound from what you say the opposite of dominant (if that theory did in fact still exist).  I don't know how or why your trainer thinks that his separation anxiety is tied up with dominance and this rings alarm bells with me.

A crate should be a safe haven for a dog - your theory of bashing the crate to make him stop is known as an aversive and while you think it may have solved your problem it can lead to greater ones - it could even be contributing now to his separation anxiety -  and I would seriously recommend you don't do this again, particularly with a dog that is fearful 

Good luck with finding a new trainer 

[SophieBlueRoanLover]

My dog was neutered at 7 months and his coat is lovely 7 months later. He never had any dominance or aggression issues, so don't know if that would have made any difference. A few male dogs around here have also been neutered around that age and the owners have noticed no change in their behaviour (for better or worse).

Our vet practices in London are probably keener than others to neuter dogs earlier rather than later in order to prevent unwanted puppies (only the other day I met a staffie/jack russell cross which was one of 8 pups abandoned outside Battersea Dogs Home, as the bitch died during birth - they want to prevent this happening!).

[JoandMike]

Thanks for your responses, much appreciated.  We've decided to cancel having Bailey neutered for now to give him time to mature.  The vet said there were health benefits to neutering but from what we've read there are also health benefits to not neuter.  So we figured if in doubt wait!

It was interesting what people said about maybe he's anxious and over compensating with over confidence.  I hadn't thought of this before in relation to dogs but had worked with children with the same issues funny enough!  So thank you for that and I think we will ask an approved Behaviourist for some help as I don't want the issues getting any worse.

I fear I may have painted him out to be a total devil  but I promise he's not all bad! He really does have a lovely playful temperament, he'd play with my friends cats if they'd let him!  He is also very clever and picks things up very quickly. He then just chooses whether he will do what he's told or not!  For the most part, provided there's no distractions around (ie other dogs) he will listen to us and do what he's told. It's just the selective hearing, separation anxiety and over excitement around other dogs we need help with to resolve! 

On a positive note, the groomer for the first time today was actually able to strip him (his fur is ready!) of his thick puppy fur today to reveal a glossy adult coat underneath - our boy is growing up! It took her 2 hours just to do his back and give him a wash a blow dry so he's booked in next week to deal with his legs and skirt - she's allowed 2.5hours as he's just sooooo furry! Thanks again for the advice everyone.

[Evadee]

We neutered out Jake at 18 months old which was 4 months ago.  Waited until he had got more confident.
The last few months prior to his castration he was excessively marking where our spayed bitch had wee'd, marking on walks and humping her.

This has all stopped now (I know it doesn't with all dogs).  I think we got him neutered at the right time for him and us.  I umm'ed and ahh'ed for weeks over it but glad I made the decision now.

No coat changes yet.

Tia our bitch was spayed 21 months ago when she was just over 1 year old, no coat changes at all with her