CockersOnline Forum
Cocker Specific Discussion => General Cocker Spaniel Discussion => Topic started by: rubyduby on July 27, 2017, 12:49:03 PM
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I am sick of being ripped of by vets, the costs have been inflated massively due to more people being insured, I choose not to, but am still charged the over inflated prices....it is time something was done about this blank cheque book. Today , sedation, lip fold clean and small tube of cream, she went in at 10,30 and was home by 12.30 ...£180.... Now I know why the vet didnt want to go straight to the fold surgery, why should he , if it doesnt work and it usually doesn't last , he will get the price of the surgery on top, wish more could be done about these robbing 'proffessionals'.....
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I feel for you.
My mother spent quite literally a fortune at her local vets on her extremely past-end-of-quality-life yorkie. On the times I accompanied her on visits, I was astounded at the vetinary staff's line up of company cars... Porches, Jags and top of the range Mercs.
It seems the animal welfare game is a very good gravy train????
Fortunately here our little CZ town things are still normal and our vets provide good service at reasonable cost. In fact at such good prices that there is a good line of trade from German owners bringing their dogs here for treatment.
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While I agree that veterinary bills are very expensive, especially since I am struggling to make ends meet atm, there are many things that cause these bills to be so high. Keep in mind that a vets office has a lot of expenses. Salary for highly educated employees, continued training courses to keep their knowledge up to date as medicine is an ever-changing field, diagnostic equipment and maintenance of it, professional cleaning and disinfection of the clinic space, insurances, VAT, system for keeping medical records, being stocked in materials and meds so they are prepared for "anything" at all times...
In my country veterinarians, vet nurses and assistants earn a lot less money than their colleagues in human medicine. Still as pet owners the prices seem unreasonably high. Unfortunately medical care is expensive. I would never risk not having insurance, not on my house or my car, and definitely not on my beloved pet. It is annoying that it is necessary, but that is just the way it is.
My cocker managed to steal some chocolate the other day, that mistake cost me over £100. All my dog needed was two injections. But I am paying for the time the vet and nurse spends with my dog in addition to the medicine itself. And if they don't cover the expenses of the clinic by charging costumers, then there won't be a clinic there to help our pets.
The only way to control how much vet care will cost us is insurance. I think we would be better served trying to get better deals from insurance companies than from pressuring vets to lower prices. I feel your frustration, I am currently struggling financially and the vet bills are a huge problem for me. But having seen it from the other side too I know that the money I leave at the vets will need to cover much more than just the salary of the person treating my dog.
I'm usually very honest with my vet. If money is tight I tell them. My dog is my baby and I want the best care for her, I'll scrape together the funds I need somehow. But if the medical treatment is likely to fail I would rather do the more expensive surgery and get it over with. Or if the medical treatment has a high success rate then I would prefer that option. If you have a decent vet with a solid education, then part of that education was about choosing treatments that are financially suitable to the costumer as well as securing animal welfare. Of course welfare should come first, but if a costumer indicates that money is an issue a compromise should be made when choosing an intervention (as long as it is responsible in regards to welfare).
Sorry for the long-winded reply. But I find that knowing where the money goes makes me less frustrated with the prices. I usually ask for a detailed invoice too, let's me see what the medicine costs, the treatment and how much is VAT.
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Our vets seem to know less and less, and are quite happy to rip you off indefinately then suggest you see a specialist, they tell you it is 24 hr service, then you find out, they just 'pop' in...yes they have establishments to pay for , but they also have a lot more customers, plus other vets raking it in. This is why animals are suffering , people can have pets for decades and they arent ill, but blimey when they are they have a shock at how inflated the prices are. It does not reflect the knowledge (which is minimal) not the time spent with them (which is minimal) and as for medication, they charge at least double the price you can get it online, and yes online are making a profit sooo....
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I wonder if vets' bills seem so high because we are not exposed to the true cost of healthcare for ourselves.
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Interesting observation 👍
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I wonder if vets' bills seem so high because we are not exposed to the true cost of healthcare for ourselves.
I think you are on to something. That's the case in Norway at least. Not only does the state pay for much of our own healthcare so the bill we get to see is only a part of the actual cost, but the veterinary bill has a 25% VAT on top that the vet can't help. So compared to my lovely sponsored medical bill my dogs' vet bill looks crazy. But my vet earns less money than my doctor, yet my vet is the one people call greedy while my doctor is the hero that helps people...Perception is everything...I think they are both worth it :)
Not saying there aren't some incompetent or greedy vets out there, but it's much more complicated than people think when all they see is the final bill ;)
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I wonder if vets' bills seem so high because we are not exposed to the true cost of healthcare for ourselves.
We lived in the US back in 2000/2001 and where covered by comprehensive healthcare, but paid $10 cash per visit to the doctors. Our son was a toddler so loads of visits to the doctors. - vaccinations, ear infections and general child hood illnesses, but nothing major. When we retuned to the UK I was forwarded a copy of all the invoices. So the cost for one year for our son was over $15000 and that was 16 years ago!!
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I wonder if vets' bills seem so high because we are not exposed to the true cost of healthcare for ourselves.
Totally agree with you Londongirl :D - I have been saying this for years!!!! - and Mari, until you mentioned VAT it had completely passed me by that it would be charged - silly me!
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Interesting observation 👍
I couldn't agree more
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When I read what some of you pay in UK compared to what I pay here in Germany, it makes my hair stand on end. My vet also has a modern practice, has staff to pay etc but pet insurance is not quite so common here, I've only ever been referred to a specialist once and that was for my first dog who needed eye surgery and we went to a university vet clinic, they used the operation for teaching purposes andmwe weren't charged anything at all. I do believe its the pet insurance industry that is the cause of a lot of unnecessary tests etc.
As for the US Health system, - we received huge bills when my son was there for 6 months, they had a birthday when he produced his health insurance certificate and thought they could charge whatbthey liked. Fortunately the insurance company were aware of the amounts they were allowed to charge and what they were trying to charge and there was a huge difference!!! Our GP was amazed that they were charging $500 for a test which he was only allowd to charge 40€ for!
I imagine the pet insurance is very similar. It would be interesting to compare what I pay for certain things here with UK prices.
Removal of grass seed from ear with anasthaetic , infusion and antibiotic injection, incl. removal of tooth plaque (good opportunity while he was under sedation) and a tube of ear cream was €129.
Rabies shot - 25 euros, ultrasound to detect his missing testical (ca. 20 minutes) €30.
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I could have posted this before :shades:, but a work mate dogs was on thyroid medication, and she would get 3 months supply at a time, she went for a repeat and was horrified that they wanted around £30 for one months supply, she came into work in a state of shock, working at a medical center with a pharmacy we were able get the actually cost for thyroid tablets for us humans, armed with this she phoned the vets.
She explained that she could understand an increase but this was to excess, the pharmacy knowledge costing was also relayed - vet said he would look into the price, later the lady vet who prescribed the medication for the dog phoned and apologised and said a refund and two months medication was waiting for her to collect.
Another thing is also (at the moment) you can get generic medication which is made to EU regs - which is exported and then imported back at lower prices, so unless it is still under licences to the main manufacturer(who invented it) it's can be pennies.
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My vets (who I am friends with too so know they are telling me the truth) tell me they have to buy at higher prices than we can buy for some of products you get online. Some of stuff I buy re cat food I can get online at the price my vets can only buy it at too even though htye use the same warehousing/suppliers as the online ones. In the case of my practice its quite small too so they can't buy lots of stock particularly of items than have a short sell by date, e.g. vaccinations.
And yes it didn't help when VAT went up too
Plus vets are actually obliged to use vet meds 1st and then human meds if no vet meds exist - I have spoken to numerous vets about this from different practices and rules have changed more so of late I believe. Vets are regulated by their own body and thus have to abide by them. I often chat to various vets I see (either practices I have to go to with my fosters or if my dogs are referred to other vets) as am often curious so ask lots of questions when I see them
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Regardless of whether we compare with doctors (and I for one would not pay GPs in washers) the prices are high, our vet charges £33 for a 10 min consultation and £55 for 20 min. Since seeing my most recent vet (long story) all he has done is listen to me and produce meds, he as not contributed anything in knowledge at all, for all his training and high bills. it is a gravy train....This is similar to previous vets. the even class themselves as '1st stop' vets, the inference being that they have minimal knowledge and will pass you on to a specialist , usually once they have rung you dry. The take money for meds/ treatment for decades for animals with on going conditions, but when the animal dies they don't offer free euthanasia ......When you leave them at the vets you get a bill with a string of meds provided, half of which I am pretty sure the animal never gets, and some of the information that goes on behind the scenes is pretty dire. Vets here are well known for their conning of pet owners, and it is a disgrace and should be dealt with. I have used vets for 40 yrs now and have yet to come across one who has not shoved inappropriate and downright useless meds at me.... for no other purpose than to asure their wages
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Regardless of whether we compare with doctors (and I for one would not pay GPs in washers) the prices are high, our vet charges £33 for a 10 min consultation and £55 for 20 min. Since seeing my most recent vet (long story) all he has done is listen to me and produce meds, he as not contributed anything in knowledge at all, for all his training and high bills. it is a gravy train....This is similar to previous vets. the even class themselves as '1st stop' vets, the inference being that they have minimal knowledge and will pass you on to a specialist , usually once they have rung you dry. The take money for meds/ treatment for decades for animals with on going conditions, but when the animal dies they don't offer free euthanasia ......When you leave them at the vets you get a bill with a string of meds provided, half of which I am pretty sure the animal never gets, and some of the information that goes on behind the scenes is pretty dire. Vets here are well known for their conning of pet owners, and it is a disgrace and should be dealt with. I have used vets for 40 yrs now and have yet to come across one who has not shoved inappropriate and downright useless meds at me.... for no other purpose than to asure their wages
Rubyduby you have clearly been having huge problems over the years finding a vet (and GP) whose opinion you respect and trust, which is sad given that you are clearly a longstanding and caring pet owner. I wonder if maybe you live somewhere where there is limited choice (i.e. somewhere remote or with only a very few options?) - under those circumstances I can understand how you might feel 'stuck' with what's available. I feel very fortunate in comparison and have never had any complaints with vet, GP or hospital services - all seems so unfair and a bit of a lottery it would appear. I know that you don't want to compare with doctors, but as a matter of interest I have just googled a local private GP service here in Hampshire (the nearest equivalent to a vet in terms of employment/payment) and they charge £75 for a 20min appointment - which I think makes an interesting comparison.
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The take money for meds/ treatment for decades for animals with on going conditions, but when the animal dies they don't offer free euthanasia ......
I'm sorry to hear that you have bad experiences. I feel lucky to have found several vets that I can trust at several different surgeries. All the invoices I have ever recieved have listed everything I pay for, and all of it has been for a good reason. So you must have had some bad luck unfortunately.
But free euthanasia? Why should they offer that? Someone has to pay for the medication used for sedation and euthanasia, not to mention cremation and transport to the crematorium. Even if the vet decided to donate their time, it would still not be free. And you wouldn't expect your doctor or accountant or plumber to work for free, so why should your vet?
I'm sorry if I misunderstood or if I sound harsh. But like my favourite vet once said, she would love to help people for free since she loves animals. But she has student loans, bills of her own, kids to feed, her own vet bills for her pets etc...
Hope you can find a vet you feel comfortable with in the future!
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Re free euthanasia:
I sang the praises of our local veterinary practice earlier in this thread.
Over the years our old Cocker, earned our vet a minimal income. Even with her kidney failure problems, the vet gave us what turned out to have been very sound advice on how to look after her without the nee for OTC dietary foods and special medicines. But they loved her almost as much as we did, never failing to stop and make a fuss of her whenever we bumped into them in town or socially. When the end came the practice owner, a tough older farm type vet of the James Herriot style, was seriously upset. He insisted on taking care of the process himself, and absolutely refused to take a penny from me for doing so.
And to this day, we never meet without him making some reference to the old girl.
This is why I love living here in the Sumava. We're in something of a time warp with still present landscapes and human social niceties that disappeared in UK in the 1950s
Back on subject: This modest but caring veterinary practice of ours is no hic outfit. It has a modern surgery with all of the diagnostic equipment one would expect. They tend to pets, livestock and horses. And parked outside the surgery are their cars, easily distinguished from all of the other cars in the street, by their encrustation of mud, and interiors with so much straw and debris scattered around that we suspect may be overnight roosts for their hens! Would that all vets were like this....
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Re free euthanasia:
I sang the praises of our local veterinary practice earlier in this thread.
Over the years our old Cocker, earned our vet a minimal income. Even with her kidney failure problems, the vet gave us what turned out to have been very sound advice on how to look after her without the nee for OTC dietary foods and special medicines. But they loved her almost as much as we did, never failing to stop and make a fuss of her whenever we bumped into them in town or socially. When the end came the practice owner, a tough older farm type vet of the James Herriot style, was seriously upset. He insisted on taking care of the process himself, and absolutely refused to take a penny from me for doing so.
And to this day, we never meet without him making some reference to the old girl.
This is why I love living here in the Sumava. We're in something of a time warp with still present landscapes and human social niceties that disappeared in UK in the 1950s
Back on subject: This modest but caring veterinary practice of ours is no hic outfit. It has a modern surgery with all of the diagnostic equipment one would expect. They tend to pets, livestock and horses. And parked outside the surgery are their cars, easily distinguished from all of the other cars in the street, by their encrustation of mud, and interiors with so much straw and debris scattered around that we suspect may be overnight roosts for their hens! Would that all vets were like this....
Sound very much like our's, infact when our previous dog had to have an emergency op late one evening to remove a huge, very fast growing tumour in order to save his life, OH and I, along with his wife, ended up having to assist. The practice has expanded since then and I don't think that would happen now but we're very fortunate to be living in a place where, as the Germans put it "the fox and the goose say goodnight to each other!" 😉
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I live in Lancashire, and have tried virtually every vet in sensible travelling distance. My dog has just had a sedstive for lip shaving and cream for lip fold dermatitis, £180, (thought it was less till I checked c/card bil)that was after around £60 for a visit and antibiotics....needless to say it has not worked...The vet told me at the appointment that surgery doesnt always work better off with cleaning and cream...rubbish, I have had it done twice with my dogs in the past and it has worked perfectly..so out of pocket ,dog still with sore lips. AND no doubt the vet is waiting for me to ring back, then he can say 'oh dear' I suppose all thats left is surgery....sorry but this is all RIP OFF....
I purchased tablets for my other dog 60 tablets £69 , I could have got them online for £33, Kidney meds charge £46 by vet got them on line for £22....Everyone tells me they have to charge a lot for meds..but no-one says why?
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I am sorry to hear that the sedative for lip shaving etc and the procedure carried out didn't sort the problem - seems that you are having some bad luck there again. I know that the drugs for sedation and surgery are very expensive (I have friends who are anaesthetists - for humans!) so that might explain the size of the bill. As for surgery as the next step, the vet has advised you that surgery doesn't always sort the problem (an opinion probably based on academic reviews/evidence in veterinary press), so I guess it will be your decision whether or not to go ahead with surgery based on your personal experience of two previous cases :dunno:?
Also, I am confused as to why, if you can get tablets cheaper on line, you don't always choose to source the medication that way?. As for the price that vets charge - I am guessing that they are required to add VAT on anything they supply, and a warehouse/internet-based provider will not be employing highly qualified staff such as veterinary nurses, nor will they have to heat, light, decorate or furnish their workspace to the same standard? - all these things need to be paid for in some way surely? In these days of counterfeit medications I personally would rather pay the premium to acquire bona fide medication via my vet than run the risk of something that may or may not have the correct active ingredients - but we all make the choices that we feel are best for our pets.
I have to say, the posts by bizzylizzy and TheAdventuresofBarnaby would suggest we should all move to Germany for cheaper veterinary bills :o
I hope your dog soon has relief from symptoms and maybe you could do a 'trial' to see if cleaning and cream has any effect before making a decision re surgery, which may or may not work (and at least then your dog would not be subjected to the risks of general anaesthesia - let alone the expense?)
I wish you well.
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I used to be able to take my dogs to the vets and not worry about the cost. Although they are both insured, most visits to the vets were under the excess charge anyway so have seldom needed to claim. My vet was an elderly man with a very run down surgery (ripped lino on the floor, torn chairs in the waiting room, smell of tobacco lingering from the pipe he had smoked in between consultations ph34r.) He was a grumpy so and so to the owners BUT he was wonderful with animals :angel:
The last time we had to visit was when Marley was nipped by a collie on a dog walk. He examined her, gave her an antibiotic injection, gave her a 7 day course of antibiotic tablets and the price was £17! This was only last year. When Stevie needed a lump removed the total cost of everything with the anaesthetic, surgery and after care was £100. He didn't have any high tec equipment and had to refer you to another practice if you needed xrays, scans etc but none of my visits needed them and most of his clients just needed basic veterinary help (vaccinations, neutering, flea treatment etc) but the opportunity was there if your pet needed further investigation.
He was able to manage his surgery successfully for many many years without going bankrupt with these prices and he only gave up his practice due to his retirement. His practice has now been taken over by a franchise and everything is being updated including the prices :'(
Years (and years ago) when I had GSDs there was no such thing as pet insurance and I could always afford the vet bills. There has been an advance in veterinary treatment which means more options are available to the pet owner but these come at a price which can only be met by insurance. I feel as pet owners we are emotionally blackmailed into insurance and are then trapped. My two girls are now 10 and therefore considered elderly so premiums have gone up drastically >:( but from this age they are more likely to need treatment so I can't get out of the trap for fear that I won't be able to afford treatment if they need it. I never want to be in a position where one of them needs treatment which I can't afford, so I just keep on paying the premiums. It has got to the stage where the premiums cost me more than their food >:(
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Everyone tells me they have to charge a lot for meds..but no-one says why?
they often cost more for vets to buy in the 1st place than you suspect - they have to pay more than the online suppliers - my vets uses a supplier that online suppliers use and there's a 2 tier system of costs whereby vet practices have to pay more (ie, take the vet food I get -
it costs me about 40 a bag to buy online but it also costs my vet the same to buy at source) plus add on economies of scale
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Someone asked why I dont buy my meds online, well now I do, but that was after having to pay £16 for prescription from my vet, I do complain about the cost of meds , but my biggest gripe is that most dont work, trial and error, with conditions that have been around for decades, if veterinary training etc has improved, then all I can say is, it must have been bad before !!! i get tired of people saying you are paying for the training and expertise, ??? why then am I still having to tell the vets what they should look for and what to do to rectify it, and this is about common or garden ailments....
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We have an Animal Trust Vets just opened in the next town which states not for profit. It would be interesting to know how costs compare
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Animal Trust vets in Blackburn.........
We have a vets at an animal charity in our area, they have 2 vets and you pay a joining fee if you are not on low income, I do not use them, but alot of people I know do............my only quibble is they say 24 hour but out of hours is ccovered by another service and that is were the prices really shoot up.
Must adnit the £16 private prescription fee is high was £8 at my previous vet and £10 at this one, plus it can (for regular meds) have a repeat option of upto 5 mths and is held at the only pharmacy.
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Most of our vets are all owned by one business and the charges are ridiculous.A friend has an expectant bitch, the cost of the HIV jabs is £ 130 for the two injections.She was speaking to a breederup country exactly the same injections £90 .So annoyed She is going to question it.We now have a Pets at Home vet and their costs are less and a lot of people are signing up there.It doesnt matter what you go to the vets for it is always at least £50.Another friend has a 13 year olddog with ovarian cancer, the vet wants to do a full op and then chemo.She decided to get a second opinion else where and was advisedthe cancer had spread so much that really the best thing was to give as much tlc as possible and let nature takes it course as it was very doubtful any treatment would make much difference...except to Her pocket of course.This is what Her instinct told Her but She was having so much pressure put on Her to do otherwise.Just feel a lot of it is more about money.
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Someone asked why I dont buy my meds online, well now I do, but that was after having to pay £16 for prescription from my vet, I do complain about the cost of meds , but my biggest gripe is that most dont work, trial and error, with conditions that have been around for decades, if veterinary training etc has improved, then all I can say is, it must have been bad before !!! i get tired of people saying you are paying for the training and expertise, ??? why then am I still having to tell the vets what they should look for and what to do to rectify it, and this is about common or garden ailments....
Problem is what may work for one pet may not work for another + vet/medicine aren't exact sciences either (my vets still do a lot of continuuing education but even they are sometimes stumped). Vet/medicine is a case of trial and error sometimes or having to work through to rule things out (just as you find in human medicine)
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I wonder if vets' bills seem so high because we are not exposed to the true cost of healthcare for ourselves.
When I was ill a few years ago I did ask my consultant about costs, I had 27 plasma exchanges at £3500 each plus all the other drugs Miderene alone was £15 per tablet I was on 4 a day for 4 months, Op to remove my thymus gland approx. £15000, THANK GOD for our NH, this does not include the costs of 6 weeks hospital stay and on going drugs for the last 3 years. I am a member of a facebook group for those who also have AAG ( autonomic auto immune gangliopathy and have so much sympathy for the American sufferers who struggle for insurance to pay for the treatments
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I wonder if vets' bills seem so high because we are not exposed to the true cost of healthcare for ourselves.
When I was ill a few years ago I did ask my consultant about costs, I had 27 plasma exchanges at £3500 each plus all the other drugs Miderene alone was £15 per tablet I was on 4 a day for 4 months, Op to remove my thymus gland approx. £15000, THANK GOD for our NH, this does not include the costs of 6 weeks hospital stay and on going drugs for the last 3 years. I am a member of a facebook group for those who also have AAG ( autonomic auto immune gangliopathy and have so much sympathy for the American sufferers who struggle for insurance to pay for the treatments
Indeed, - we take so much for granted here in Europe, a gentle reminder now and again does us all good, I think! Glad the treatment's working for you Jeff!
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I wonder if vets' bills seem so high because we are not exposed to the true cost of healthcare for ourselves.
When I was ill a few years ago I did ask my consultant about costs, I had 27 plasma exchanges at £3500 each plus all the other drugs Miderene alone was £15 per tablet I was on 4 a day for 4 months, Op to remove my thymus gland approx. £15000, THANK GOD for our NH, this does not include the costs of 6 weeks hospital stay and on going drugs for the last 3 years. I am a member of a facebook group for those who also have AAG ( autonomic auto immune gangliopathy and have so much sympathy for the American sufferers who struggle for insurance to pay for the treatments
Indeed, - we take so much for granted here in Europe, a gentle reminder now and again does us all good, I think! Glad the treatment's working for you Jeff!
But there are big gaps here in UK -biopsy early July as of today still no appt for results - friend from hospital lab has reassured me that if it was a bad result would have been brought back in fast- I shouldn't have to rely on who I know to reassure me.....
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But there are big gaps here in UK -biopsy early July as of today still no appt for results - friend from hospital lab has reassured me that if it was a bad result would have been brought back in fast- I shouldn't have to rely on who I know to reassure me.....
I hate those 'if you don't hear from us assume all is well' result systems - I tend to ignore them and if I was worried (as I suspect you were) I would phone my GP to ensure that I heard one way or the other - I wouldn't worry about hassling the GP - if they don't like it, maybe they could change the system? In this area the results of mammograms are always now given so there is never the lingering doubt which can be so stressful.
Glad to hear that the treatment is working for you Jeff - I would guess that many of us do not realise the cost of treatments we receive as a matter of routine - perhaps if we did some perspectives might change......
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I wonder if vets' bills seem so high because we are not exposed to the true cost of healthcare for ourselves.
We lived in the US back in 2000/2001 and where covered by comprehensive healthcare, but paid $10 cash per visit to the doctors. Our son was a toddler so loads of visits to the doctors. - vaccinations, ear infections and general child hood illnesses, but nothing major. When we retuned to the UK I was forwarded a copy of all the invoices. So the cost for one year for our son was over $15000 and that was 16 years ago!!
We've called the vet well into the night and they have responded and we've even been able to take the dogs in for treatment. Try that with your local GP.